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12'/13' Marlies Part I|24-14-2-2|Colborne and Ashton stepping up?

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Old
12-18-2012, 05:16 PM
  #301
Kyle Doobas
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
What else do we have other than a small sample size for either player?
Well typically when we don't have the means to arrive at a reasonable judgment, we don't just start making judgments anyway based on our ridiculously insufficient evidence.

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12-18-2012, 05:18 PM
  #302
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Originally Posted by The Amazing Ralph View Post
Sorry, no where in your series of posts do I find proof of the "simple fact" that Jimmy Hayes is "a better hockey player in just about every aspect of the game". In fact, why don't you list the aspects of the game you are referring to, and then give us some proof for each, without using 8 game sample sizes.
He's better in every aspect of the game.

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12-18-2012, 05:19 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by Rare Jewel View Post
There's nothing wrong with you thinking Hayes is a good player, But it's your complete dismissal of Ross having a good NHL career based on only 8 pro games is what people have a problem with.
I don't dismiss him being an NHL player. It's just that Jimmy Hayes will be a better one which is why I'm ****ing peaved at Burke for trading him away for someone worse. Like any Leaf fan should be....

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12-18-2012, 05:22 PM
  #304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
He's better in every aspect of the game.
Great argument.

So. Let's see here. He is faster, and more physical, and more tenacious.

Not that we can prove any of those things quantitatively, but if what your saying is true, Hayes is better in those three aspects of the game. Correct?

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12-18-2012, 05:23 PM
  #305
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Jimmy Hayes as a 21 year old got 0 points in 7 games in the AHL.
Brad Ross as a 20 year old has 1 goal in 8 AHL games.

Ross as a 20 year old has scored at an infinitely better pace than Hayes did as a 21 year old.

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12-18-2012, 05:24 PM
  #306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
I don't dismiss him being an NHL player. It's just that Jimmy Hayes will be a better one which is why I'm ****ing peaved at Burke for trading him away for someone worse. Like any Leaf fan should be....
At the same age, Hayes was still in Boston College. How can you even make such a statement, when we don't even have comparable stats from when the players were at similar levels at the same age, and the two players play two different styles of games?

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12-18-2012, 05:25 PM
  #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Amazing Ralph View Post
Great argument.

So. Let's see here. He is faster, and more physical, and more tenacious.

Not that we can prove any of those things quantitatively, but if what your saying is true, Hayes is better in those three aspects of the game. Correct?
Yes.

I'm pretty sure Hayes could beat up Ross pretty badly.

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12-18-2012, 05:29 PM
  #308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant View Post
Jimmy Hayes as a 21 year old got 0 points in 7 games in the AHL.
Brad Ross as a 20 year old has 1 goal in 8 AHL games.

Ross as a 20 year old has scored at an infinitely better pace than Hayes did as a 21 year old.
Yeah but then in Haye's next 50 pro games he was an NHL regular on a playoff team and was playing quite well in a third line role with PP time with Marian Hossa.

I highly doubt Ross will even get an appearance for the Leafs next year let alone become a mainstay on a playoff team.

I think Andrew Shaw is more comparable to Ross but I still take Shaw 100 times out of 100. SHaw would also beat up Ross.

Ross is more like Legein in my opinion.

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12-18-2012, 05:32 PM
  #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Yeah but then in Haye's next 50 pro games he was an NHL regular on a playoff team and was playing quite well in a third line role with PP time with Marian Hossa.

I highly doubt Ross will even get an appearance for the Leafs next year let alone become a mainstay on a playoff team.

I think Andrew Shaw is more comparable to Ross but I still take Shaw 100 times out of 100.

Ross is more like Legein in my opinion.
Now you are jumping ahead of comparables to support your argument. For all we know Ross will make the NHL whenever it resumes and will score at a 2 points per game pace. As unlikely as it is, it's possible.

Can't compare the futures when one hasn't had theirs.

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12-18-2012, 05:32 PM
  #310
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That's better bomber, more "in my opinion", and less "simple facts" and absolutes. No one has a crystal ball here, and making blanket statements like "so and so is better in every aspect of the game" when its not a comparison like Crosby vs Joey Crabb, is ridiculous.

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12-18-2012, 05:37 PM
  #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Yeah but then in Haye's next 50 pro games he was an NHL regular on a playoff team and was playing quite well in a third line role with PP time with Marian Hossa.

I highly doubt Ross will even get an appearance for the Leafs next year let alone become a mainstay on a playoff team.

I think Andrew Shaw is more comparable to Ross but I still take Shaw 100 times out of 100. SHaw would also beat up Ross.

Ross is more like Legein in my opinion.

Why couldn't he be more comparable to Steve Downie or a Steve Ott?


Pessimism vs optimism I suppose...

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12-18-2012, 05:42 PM
  #312
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Lol

Obvious facts? He(Ross) has played 8 pro games and the other guy is almost 3 years older.

Man oh man..

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12-18-2012, 05:46 PM
  #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rare Jewel View Post
Why couldn't he be more comparable to Steve Downie or a Steve Ott?


Pessimism vs optimism I suppose...
Because both those guys would kick his ass.

He'd be a very non-credible threat on the ice.

Too small in my opinon, not a good fighter, and doesn't appear to be that good of a hockey player (in my opinion). Might be a fourth line player if he progresses.

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12-18-2012, 05:53 PM
  #314
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Is he not bigger than both those players?

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12-18-2012, 05:56 PM
  #315
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Originally Posted by The Amazing Ralph View Post
Is he not bigger than both those players?
No both are bigger and would definitely woop Ross's butt along with most of the other fighters in the league.

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12-18-2012, 06:04 PM
  #316
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Because both those guys would kick his ass.

He'd be a very non-credible threat on the ice.

Too small in my opinon, not a good fighter, and doesn't appear to be that good of a hockey player (in my opinion). Might be a fourth line player if he progresses.

I really couldn't give a **** about them fighting, I'm talking about impact during a game. You just chose a player a to help your argument instead of being objective about it cause you seem to be in the anti-burke camp that won't pass up the chance to discredit him.


Also on the size. He's 6'0, Listed at 6'1 in some other places. Ott and Downie are both at 5'11 or 6'0 pending on where you look. So he's no smaller than the other players of that mold.

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12-18-2012, 06:25 PM
  #317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
No both are bigger and would definitely woop Ross's butt along with most of the other fighters in the league.
All from hockeydb

Steve Downie: 5'10" 192 lbs
Steve Ott: 6'0" 195 lbs
Brad Ross: 6'1" 183 lbs

So, not only is Ross taller than both, but when he finishes filling out he will probably weigh a tad over 200 lbs, which makes your statement complete ********. If you're going to discredit someone, at least use facts and don't straight up lie.

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12-18-2012, 06:41 PM
  #318
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
No both are bigger and would definitely woop Ross's butt along with most of the other fighters in the league.
Imagine that............NHL fighters being able to win a fight against a 20year old

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Old
12-18-2012, 06:45 PM
  #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Amazing Ralph View Post
All from hockeydb

Steve Downie: 5'10" 192 lbs
Steve Ott: 6'0" 195 lbs
Brad Ross: 6'1" 183 lbs

So, not only is Ross taller than both, but when he finishes filling out he will probably weigh a tad over 200 lbs, which makes your statement complete ********. If you're going to discredit someone, at least use facts and don't straight up lie.
Name one good fighter that Ross has beat up.

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12-18-2012, 06:47 PM
  #320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Name one good fighter that Ross has beat up.
Floyd Mayweather

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12-18-2012, 06:49 PM
  #321
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Originally Posted by Rare Jewel View Post
I really couldn't give a **** about them fighting, I'm talking about impact during a game. You just chose a player a to help your argument instead of being objective about it cause you seem to be in the anti-burke camp that won't pass up the chance to discredit him.


Also on the size. He's 6'0, Listed at 6'1 in some other places. Ott and Downie are both at 5'11 or 6'0 pending on where you look. So he's no smaller than the other players of that mold.

Everyone who talks about Ross says how tough and hard to play against he is. I havent seen anything like that and to be honest he looks pretty small and unimposing. I don't think anyone would be thrown off their game by him.

I didn't choose a player either. I agreed with someone else!!! Someone else said Hayes will be the better player and I agreed then all you guys freaked out because that would mean Burked ****ed up another trade involving prospects lol

Sorry but Ross has a big hill to climb if he is going to be a third line forward (which Hayes is....on a contending team) and if you can't accept that, well I dont know what to tell you...

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12-18-2012, 07:14 PM
  #322
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Name one good fighter that Ross has beat up.
I think Ross will end up as more of an agitator/pest then a fighter/intimidator. He's still only 20 years old and could certainly fill out more and become a better fighter(Darcy tucker lite)

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12-18-2012, 07:17 PM
  #323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Everyone who talks about Ross says how tough and hard to play against he is. I havent seen anything like that and to be honest he looks pretty small and unimposing. I don't think anyone would be thrown off their game by him.
You could say the same things about Darcy Tucker who stand a mere 5ft 9in. Size has got nothing to do with playing the (skilled)pest role. And as I pointed out in the other post he's actually taller than Ott and Downie two of the better ones.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
I didn't choose a player either. I agreed with someone else!!! Someone else said Hayes will be the better player and I agreed then all you guys freaked out because that would mean Burked ****ed up another trade involving prospects lol

Sorry but Ross has a big hill to climb if he is going to be a third line forward (which Hayes is....on a contending team) and if you can't accept that, well I dont know what to tell you...
I don't have to accept anything. One is 23, And the other is 20. Neither of them have established enough to say one will be better than the other over their careers.

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12-18-2012, 07:39 PM
  #324
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At this point I would probably rather have Hayes. He's 6'6, 220 and has been producing steadily at the AHL level and has 30/35 games of NHL experience.

However, I wouldn't call Hayes a 3rd liner on a contender just yet. He only has 30 or so games of NHL experience. Kadri and Frattin for example have played 50+ games and no is calling them 2nd/3rd liners yet.

Ross could still end up the better player, aswell. He has solid size, some offensive upside he has to explore at the pro level and he has the potential to be a super pest, similar to Downie if he hits his top upside.

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12-19-2012, 10:21 AM
  #325
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kadri and gardiner are both doubtful to play before the holidays, according to eakins

I am guessing they are out for a week

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