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Lockout V: Take the Long Way Home

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Old
12-19-2012, 01:01 PM
  #376
xdl1
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I've gotten out of the specifics on this lately, but it's become very clear what this whole charade has been about: union busting. This isn't about solving fundamental flaws, or costs being too high. It's about busting the union and taking as much as you can get, whether you need it or not, for the simple reasoning of "because you have the leverage" to do it.

Don Fehr is a great choice to combat it, but the best case scenario for the players unfortunately ends in a murder suicide on the NHL league as an entity.

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12-19-2012, 01:03 PM
  #377
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Originally Posted by xdl1 View Post
I've gotten out of the specifics on this lately, but it's become very clear what this whole charade has been about: union busting. This isn't about solving fundamental flaws, or costs being too high. It's about busting the union and taking as much as you can get, whether you need it or not, for the simple reasoning of "because you have the leverage" to do it.

Don Fehr is a great choice to combat it, but the best case scenario for the players unfortunately ends in a murder suicide on the NHL league as an entity.
This is obvious to anyone with the most basic pattern recognition skills.

And I think Part II of your post is also correct, sadly.

When you invite Don Fehr to kill you on your hill, you're gonna die.

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12-19-2012, 01:03 PM
  #378
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Originally Posted by Boltsfan2029 View Post
Wow. All I can say is, if fans decide they don't want to watch hockey because of who is sitting in their front office, they're not exactly fans, are they? C'mon.
I'm sure both of us would be surprised (and dismayed) at the sheer number of people who are, in fact, that fickle.

But as they say, the only real vote the consumer has is with their wallet, and some people don't really care how those changes come about.

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Old
12-19-2012, 01:03 PM
  #379
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EricOnSportsLaw 9:54am via Twitter for BlackBerry® Bill Daly says 'point of no return' is mid-January - season in 2005 was cancelled on February 16


So, 3-4 weeks.

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Old
12-19-2012, 01:03 PM
  #380
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
It might be hard for a captain to do, but I think it would be an honor, regardless.
Being a captain is a duty.
I disagree. It would be extremely awkward and unnecessary. There are much better ways.

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12-19-2012, 01:04 PM
  #381
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I think the Hanson Brothers should hand it out every year !

Here they are preparing !


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Old
12-19-2012, 01:04 PM
  #382
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
It might be hard for a captain to do, but I think it would be an honor, regardless.
Being a captain is a duty.
How about the owner of the team who wins it presenting it? Perhaps the owner of the previous team?

Quote:
Originally Posted by xdl1 View Post
I've gotten out of the specifics on this lately, but it's become very clear what this whole charade has been about: union busting. This isn't about solving fundamental flaws, or costs being too high. It's about busting the union and taking as much as you can get, whether you need it or not, for the simple reasoning of "because you have the leverage" to do it.

Don Fehr is a great choice to combat it, but the best case scenario for the players unfortunately ends in a murder suicide on the NHL league as an entity.
I think you're right; however, the PA is just as much to blame for the lockout by standing up to them.

Should the PA stand up to them? From my perspective, hell to the yes. Others may not share that view, but it is what it is.

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Old
12-19-2012, 01:05 PM
  #383
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Wayne Gretzky should present the cup...every single year.

Problem solved
Modify that to "A legend of the local team presents the cup to the winners every year" and I'd agree.

Then of course, you'd have...Brian Bradley? Alexander Selivanov? Handing Vinnie Lecavalier the cup a couple years ago. Unless Vinnie hands it to himself :-p

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12-19-2012, 01:08 PM
  #384
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Modify that to "A legend of the local team presents the cup to the winners every year" and I'd agree.

Then of course, you'd have...Brian Bradley? Alexander Selivanov? Handing Vinnie Lecavalier the cup a couple years ago. Unless Vinnie hands it to himself :-p
Phil Esposito?

You can always find someone suitable, even for newer franchises. If that's not possible just have a hockey great (Orr, Gretzky) do it.

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Old
12-19-2012, 01:11 PM
  #385
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No, I trust your math (and I don't have enough coffee in me yet to trust mine at this point). In any case my argument isn't based on absolute dollars that clubs would get from it, but rather from the point that it's a playing field leveler between the clubs and makes for an overall stronger and more stable league.
Using TMR's data (yeah I know). It's even worse than I thought. Sharing 50% of the gate only redistributes ~90m to 15 teams.

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12-19-2012, 01:12 PM
  #386
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Originally Posted by Phil Parent View Post
Modify that to "A legend of the local team presents the cup to the winners every year" and I'd agree.

Then of course, you'd have...Brian Bradley? Alexander Selivanov? Handing Vinnie Lecavalier the cup a couple years ago. Unless Vinnie hands it to himself :-p
Dave Anderchuck. Or St Louis when he hangs em up in a few years.

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12-19-2012, 01:19 PM
  #387
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Originally Posted by Boltsfan2029 View Post
Actually, I think most of 'em boo because they're following the leader. Some folks boo, then more, then the rest just chime in. I'll bet half of 'em don't even know who or why they're booing.
I suppose there's a good deal of truth to that.

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Old
12-19-2012, 01:28 PM
  #388
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Old players is a great idea. Every franchise now has been kicking for a decade, so every team has someone to pull from.

Winnipeg and Minnesota also have the benefit of a 10+ years of franchise history under their old banners.

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12-19-2012, 01:40 PM
  #389
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Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
EricOnSportsLaw 9:54am via Twitter for BlackBerry® Bill Daly says 'point of no return' is mid-January - season in 2005 was cancelled on February 16


So, 3-4 weeks.
It seems pretty obvious mid-January is about the end, but who is that guy?

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Old
12-19-2012, 02:00 PM
  #390
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I agree. The league is on a more level playing because of the cap. This means that the league is more competitive, and there are more cup contenders. Which means the cup is harder to win now than it was before the cap. Trying to argue that it meant more to win the cup in a less competitive era, is completely backwards.
I guess that depends of if you want to pay $60 or more to see one of the best hockey players in the world vs one of the best hockey players in the world or one of the best hockey teams in the world vs one of the best hockey teams in the world. You will never see 2 great teams play each other in a league with parity.

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Old
12-19-2012, 02:07 PM
  #391
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Originally Posted by Boltsfan2029 View Post
You need to convince the poster who thinks Detroit will never be good again because they can't spend carte blanche, he's the one who seems to have lost all faith in his team, not me. (That's why I pointed out, "at least, that's the impression I'm getting from your posts." I don't personally believe Detroit is going to be as bad as he seems to think they'll be.)
It isn't that I have lost faith in my team. It is that I have lost faith in the NHL. Why is that so hard to understand? Detroit built their cup championships largely through the draft. Federov, Yzerman, Lidstrom, Konstantinov, Osgood, Datsyuk, Zetterberg as well as many roll players were all drafted by the Wings. They accented with high profile free agent signings such as Hull or Shanahan.

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12-19-2012, 02:12 PM
  #392
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Originally Posted by xdl1 View Post
I've gotten out of the specifics on this lately, but it's become very clear what this whole charade has been about: union busting. This isn't about solving fundamental flaws, or costs being too high. It's about busting the union and taking as much as you can get, whether you need it or not, for the simple reasoning of "because you have the leverage" to do it.

Don Fehr is a great choice to combat it, but the best case scenario for the players unfortunately ends in a murder suicide on the NHL league as an entity.
Yes, excellent deduction there... Strictly union bashing. That is all the owners care about.

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12-19-2012, 02:14 PM
  #393
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Originally Posted by Boltsfan2029 View Post
You need to convince the poster who thinks Detroit will never be good again because they can't spend carte blanche, he's the one who seems to have lost all faith in his team, not me. (That's why I pointed out, "at least, that's the impression I'm getting from your posts." I don't personally believe Detroit is going to be as bad as he seems to think they'll be.)
The point is that they will be equal to every other team. Parity. When every team is competitive but no team is great.

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12-19-2012, 02:14 PM
  #394
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Originally Posted by xdl1 View Post
I've gotten out of the specifics on this lately, but it's become very clear what this whole charade has been about: union busting. This isn't about solving fundamental flaws, or costs being too high. It's about busting the union and taking as much as you can get, whether you need it or not, for the simple reasoning of "because you have the leverage" to do it.

Don Fehr is a great choice to combat it, but the best case scenario for the players unfortunately ends in a murder suicide on the NHL league as an entity.
Wow, I disagree with 100% of what you wrote.

What do the players want: a fair opportunity to make money

What to the owners want: a fair opportunity to make money

union busting...? If the NHLPA would agree to a CBA, the union would be just fine! and they would still get paid big $$$. Tell me that isn't true.

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Old
12-19-2012, 02:14 PM
  #395
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Originally Posted by schminksbro View Post
It isn't that I have lost faith in my team. It is that I have lost faith in the NHL. Why is that so hard to understand? Detroit built their cup championships largely through the draft. Federov, Yzerman, Lidstrom, Konstantinov, Osgood, Datsyuk, Zetterberg as well as many roll players were all drafted by the Wings. They accented with high profile free agent signings such as Hull or Shanahan.
Ha! Gold, solid gold.

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12-19-2012, 02:17 PM
  #396
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And Gary Bettman will present the next Stanley Cup. He is the commissioner and that is what they do...

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12-19-2012, 02:17 PM
  #397
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Originally Posted by Ronald Dubinsky View Post

Each time Bettman shows his face in public while presenting the Cup, whatever arena it is drowns him out with boos and some fans throw things on the ice in disgust.

The words from the PA guy of "and now, presenting the Stanley Cup..." should never be booed. It makes this mickey mouse league look like more of a joke than it already is. Fans booing the championship trophy.
This behavior says much more about the fans than anything else.

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Old
12-19-2012, 02:19 PM
  #398
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It should change.

Each time Bettman shows his face in public while presenting the Cup, whatever arena it is drowns him out with boos and some fans throw things on the ice in disgust.

The words from the PA guy of "and now, presenting the Stanley Cup..." should never be booed. It makes this mickey mouse league look like more of a joke than it already is. Fans booing the championship trophy.
They didn't boo in L.A.

But then, they don't know jack about hockey.

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12-19-2012, 02:20 PM
  #399
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Originally Posted by jigglysquishy View Post
Old players is a great idea. Every franchise now has been kicking for a decade, so every team has someone to pull from.

Winnipeg and Minnesota also have the benefit of a 10+ years of franchise history under their old banners.
I am sorry but that is one of the stupidest ideas I have heard in a long time and I have been reading all the PA proposals...

So Columbus wins this year and Nash comes out to present it?

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12-19-2012, 02:22 PM
  #400
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They didn't boo in L.A.

But then, they don't know jack about hockey.
It is only Canadian fans that boo because they feel he stole teams from them....

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