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Calgary - Washington

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Old
12-19-2012, 08:46 AM
  #26
supert
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kresco View Post
Calgary gives:

Glencross
Stajan
2014 2nd

Washington gives:
M Johansson


Washington gets:
A very cheap cheap very good LW for their 2nd line who has put up 40-50 pts on a team with low offense. He is a guy who works hard every night he skates hits and scores he is also great on the pk. He has a NTC and has a ranch here but I think he would consider playing with ovi and co on a contender. They get Stajan who was in the dog house last year buried on the 4th line but is very able to put up at least 30 points.

Flames get a great C prospect in Johansson. He had a good year last year and will end up as a decent #1 c or a great #2 C
.


Flames get a great C prospect in Johansson. He had a good year last year and will end up as a decent #1 c or a great #2 C[/QUOTE] *. THIS IS THE KEY.... READ THIS AND THEN ASK YOURSELF DOES YOU OFFER EVEN COME CLOSE TO GETTING THE CAPS TO BITE
The Caps laugh hard then blocks the Flames number .

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Old
12-19-2012, 09:33 AM
  #27
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I was very confused initially by the strong reactions, especially:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoidberg Jesus View Post
Gotta love proposals where one team gives up the two most valuable players in the deal for a bunch of lesser pieces that don't fit any of their needs.
Then I realized the proposal was amended. I almost called you crazy ZJ since the Caps were only losing one player.

The new proposal, while not good, at least has some merit. Glencross is a very useful player, and the type of guy WAS needs IMO. That said, there is not enough value there for WAS to consider..

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Old
12-19-2012, 10:30 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kresco View Post
Calgary gives:

Glencross
Stajan
2014 2nd

Washington gives:
M Johansson


Washington gets:
A very cheap cheap very good LW for their 2nd line who has put up 40-50 pts on a team with low offense. He is a guy who works hard every night he skates hits and scores he is also great on the pk. He has a NTC and has a ranch here but I think he would consider playing with ovi and co on a contender. They get Stajan who was in the dog house last year buried on the 4th line but is very able to put up at least 30 points.

Flames get a great C prospect in Johansson. He had a good year last year and will end up as a decent #1 c or a great #2 C
Garbage for quality trades only work when Toronto is sending garbage to Calgary.

Nobody else makes those deals.

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Old
12-19-2012, 11:16 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOGuy14 View Post
Garbage for quality trades only work when Toronto is sending garbage to Calgary.

Nobody else makes those deals.
Curtis Glencross:

2011-2012
67 GP
26 goals (.39 Goals/game)
48 points
2:12 SH TOI/Game
Cap hit: 2.55 million

Johansson is 22 not 17. So you can't treat him like a young prospect. He got many of his points subbing in for Backstrom. He led all centres on his team in total PPG/TOI for the season. A PP that features Ovechkin, Semin, Wideman, Green, etc..

I honestly don't see how Johansson is an improvement on Backlund. Give Backlund an extra minute of PP time and 5-6 minutes of ES time on the top line, and they end up with pretty similar numbers.

The value may be there but not giving up Glencross for the chance that Johansson manages to become something more.

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Old
12-19-2012, 01:00 PM
  #30
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i would not trade with the capitals for a young player. mcphee has fairly proven that if he trades a young player, you wont want him. if the player is worth keeping, he wont move him. he's a hoarder. look at all the young pieces he has trades since the lockout. teddy ruth for fedorov. osala for corvo. della rovere for king. busts. even tomas fleischmann ended up just a rental. maybe i am missing someone, but as a rule mcphee wont trade a quality young player

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Old
12-19-2012, 01:21 PM
  #31
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I'd make a play for Glencross. Though Caps just don't have odd pieces now (aside from salary dumps).

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Old
12-19-2012, 01:43 PM
  #32
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The only thing the caps want from calgary IMO is Iginla because face it he only has a couple more years left and after he's done we could slot in Kuznetsov, Forsberg, Wilson, Galiev in our top 6. He obviously has great leadership and given his age, I don't think we would have to give up so much. Iginla would have a tremendous effect on our team and maybe Iginla finally wants to win a cup. He would make Ovie a better captain and us a better team for a couple of years while we only have a hole in our top 6 for the next 1-2 years.

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Old
12-19-2012, 04:02 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blankall View Post
Curtis Glencross:

2011-2012
67 GP
26 goals (.39 Goals/game)
48 points
2:12 SH TOI/Game
Cap hit: 2.55 million
Glencross had an absurd and unsustainable 23.6% shooting percentage last season. While shooting around his career average of 14.7%, he's about a 20 goal scorer over a full season. Certainly nothing to sneeze at, but you're pointing at a career year based on unsustainable shooting to inflate his value.

Not to mention the Caps already have a much more versatile version of Glencross with a higher upside in Brooks Laich.


Quote:
Originally Posted by blankall View Post
Johansson is 22 not 17. So you can't treat him like a young prospect. He got many of his points subbing in for Backstrom. He led all centres on his team in total PPG/TOI for the season. A PP that features Ovechkin, Semin, Wideman, Green, etc..
22 is still plenty young for a hockey player. I don't think I need to list the countless forwards who have blossomed after that age. Anyone who has watched Johansson can see that he still has plenty of potential left untapped.

You also make it sound like all those stars were out there on the PP at the same time, which simply isn't true. Green was hurt for most of the season, so take him away. Troy Brouwer (or Mike Knuble early in the season) took up a PP spot to play the net crashing role. Marcus Johansson was actually taking the position that Alex Semin had played in past seasons. Backstrom was hurt a large portion of the year, and was replaced by Mathieu Perreault on the powerplay. So, in essence what's left was that Johansson saw PP time with Brouwer, Perreault, Ovechkin, and Wideman. Certainly not a talentless group, but far less exciting that what you were billing it as.

And beyond that, it's not as if his production was a result of that PP time. He only had 8 PP points. His 38 even strength points were only behind Ovechkin and Semin on the Capitals, and trailed only Iginla on the Flames.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blankall View Post
I honestly don't see how Johansson is an improvement on Backlund. Give Backlund an extra minute of PP time and 5-6 minutes of ES time on the top line, and they end up with pretty similar numbers.
Backlund was drafted a year earlier, yet Johansson had the same amount of points last season alone that Backlund has had in his career so far.

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Old
12-19-2012, 05:16 PM
  #34
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for how much caps fan value there play it really not worth it, not by a long shot

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Old
12-19-2012, 06:01 PM
  #35
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How is Glencross garbage?

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Old
12-19-2012, 06:24 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Glencross had an absurd and unsustainable 23.6% shooting percentage last season. While shooting around his career average of 14.7%, he's about a 20 goal scorer over a full season. Certainly nothing to sneeze at, but you're pointing at a career year based on unsustainable shooting to inflate his value.

Not to mention the Caps already have a much more versatile version of Glencross with a higher upside in Brooks Laich.



22 is still plenty young for a hockey player. I don't think I need to list the countless forwards who have blossomed after that age. Anyone who has watched Johansson can see that he still has plenty of potential left untapped.

You also make it sound like all those stars were out there on the PP at the same time, which simply isn't true. Green was hurt for most of the season, so take him away. Troy Brouwer (or Mike Knuble early in the season) took up a PP spot to play the net crashing role. Marcus Johansson was actually taking the position that Alex Semin had played in past seasons. Backstrom was hurt a large portion of the year, and was replaced by Mathieu Perreault on the powerplay. So, in essence what's left was that Johansson saw PP time with Brouwer, Perreault, Ovechkin, and Wideman. Certainly not a talentless group, but far less exciting that what you were billing it as.

And beyond that, it's not as if his production was a result of that PP time. He only had 8 PP points. His 38 even strength points were only behind Ovechkin and Semin on the Capitals, and trailed only Iginla on the Flames.



Backlund was drafted a year earlier, yet Johansson had the same amount of points last season alone that Backlund has had in his career so far.
Regardless, you cannot deny that Johansson was in a prime position after Backstrom went down. He was given the best minutes of all the centres on his team. A team that featured some of the leagues best wingers.

And yes, Johansson scored at about twice hte pace of Backlund. However, like I said before, Johansson got much much better minutes. Pump up Backlund's non PK ice time by 50% and throw him on a line with Semin or Ovechkin instead of Calgary's energy line, and I guarantee Backlund's numbers would improve.

Sorry I'm just not sold on Johansson. I think he's a good prospect, but not worth giving up Glencross for. He has potential, but not to be the #1 centre the Flames need. The Flames don't need another borderline second line centre at the cost of Glencross.

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Old
12-19-2012, 07:13 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capitalsrock View Post
The only thing the caps want from calgary IMO is Iginla because face it he only has a couple more years left and after he's done we could slot in Kuznetsov, Forsberg, Wilson, Galiev in our top 6. He obviously has great leadership and given his age, I don't think we would have to give up so much. Iginla would have a tremendous effect on our team and maybe Iginla finally wants to win a cup. He would make Ovie a better captain and us a better team for a couple of years while we only have a hole in our top 6 for the next 1-2 years.

The flames will not give up iggy for nothing. Yes he is older but is still a 30 goal scorer not to mention everything iggy brings to the ice that u can't measure. His dedication hardwork he gives his heart to this team and to this town. If the flames don't get substantial return he will not go anywhere. He is way more to the team than just points that is what makes him so valuable.

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Old
12-19-2012, 07:17 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kresco View Post
The flames will not give up iggy for nothing. Yes he is older but is still a 30 goal scorer not to mention everything iggy brings to the ice that u can't measure. His dedication hardwork he gives his heart to this team and to this town. If the flames don't get substantial return he will not go anywhere. He is way more to the team than just points that is what makes him so valuable.
ALL THAT DOESN'T MATTER HE'S STILL OLDER THEN A DINOSAUR

-hfboards logic

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Old
12-19-2012, 07:21 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kresco View Post
The flames will not give up iggy for nothing. Yes he is older but is still a 30 goal scorer not to mention everything iggy brings to the ice that u can't measure. His dedication hardwork he gives his heart to this team and to this town. If the flames don't get substantial return he will not go anywhere. He is way more to the team than just points that is what makes him so valuable.
I didn't say they would give him up for nothing and I don't think it is crazy to say that Iginla wants a cup.

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Old
12-19-2012, 09:29 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capitalsrock View Post
The only thing the caps want from calgary IMO is Iginla because face it he only has a couple more years left and after he's done we could slot in Kuznetsov, Forsberg, Wilson, Galiev in our top 6. He obviously has great leadership and given his age, I don't think we would have to give up so much. Iginla would have a tremendous effect on our team and maybe Iginla finally wants to win a cup. He would make Ovie a better captain and us a better team for a couple of years while we only have a hole in our top 6 for the next 1-2 years.
You said and i quote "i dont think we would have to give up so much". In honesty if you wanted Iggy it would start with Johansson and Wash would have to +. Iggy in my mind is the best captain in the league. He has incredible leadership, is very respected around the league and does whatever is needed. He can score, hit, and is not afraid to drop the gloves to protect a teamate. He has 12 straight seasons of at least 30 goals and is the single beast athlete I have ever seen for charity / fans. He is incredibly selfless and does an insane amount of work in the community. Yes he is 35 and yes he has probably only 3 years left but as I said he has so much worth on and off the ice it would cost you.

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Old
12-19-2012, 11:42 PM
  #41
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3 years left? The guy is tops in the league for conditioning. I wouldnt be surprised if he played into his 40's.

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Old
12-20-2012, 05:21 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kresco View Post
You said and i quote "i dont think we would have to give up so much". In honesty if you wanted Iggy it would start with Johansson and Wash would have to +. Iggy in my mind is the best captain in the league. He has incredible leadership, is very respected around the league and does whatever is needed. He can score, hit, and is not afraid to drop the gloves to protect a teamate. He has 12 straight seasons of at least 30 goals and is the single beast athlete I have ever seen for charity / fans. He is incredibly selfless and does an insane amount of work in the community. Yes he is 35 and yes he has probably only 3 years left but as I said he has so much worth on and off the ice it would cost you.
If Iginla would cost a lot of assets, then it would make zero sense to trade for him.

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Old
12-20-2012, 01:03 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blankall View Post
Regardless, you cannot deny that Johansson was in a prime position after Backstrom went down. He was given the best minutes of all the centres on his team. A team that featured some of the leagues best wingers.

And yes, Johansson scored at about twice hte pace of Backlund. However, like I said before, Johansson got much much better minutes. Pump up Backlund's non PK ice time by 50% and throw him on a line with Semin or Ovechkin instead of Calgary's energy line, and I guarantee Backlund's numbers would improve.

Sorry I'm just not sold on Johansson. I think he's a good prospect, but not worth giving up Glencross for. He has potential, but not to be the #1 centre the Flames need. The Flames don't need another borderline second line centre at the cost of Glencross.
I think you need to get your facts right. From what I remember Johansson played wing most of the year, if not the whole year. I believe Laich and Perrault were number one and two center most of the year when Backstrom was out. And if Johansson did play center during the season (donít believe he did), it was on the 2nd or 3rd line. He even got moved down to the third and fourth lines at times during the season.
I would also like to agree with what one person above me said with regards to the PP.

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Old
12-20-2012, 01:54 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by capitalsrock View Post
In terms of value it's not even close and I can not possibly ever describe how completely lopsided this trade is. I don't want another infraction for doing absolutely nothing but arguing, but words can not describe how lopsided this is.
What are you talking about? You guys make out like bandits on that. Glencross alone has more value than Johansson.

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Old
12-20-2012, 01:59 PM
  #45
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3 years left? The guy is tops in the league for conditioning. I wouldnt be surprised if he played into his 40's.
That's what they said about Brind'Amour

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Old
12-20-2012, 02:08 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
Glencross alone has more value than Johansson.


It took a career year and an unsustainable shooting percentage for a 29 year old Glencross to reach 48 points. A 21 year old Johansson put up 46. Johansson's value is miles ahead of Glencross'.

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Old
12-20-2012, 02:14 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
What are you talking about? You guys make out like bandits on that. Glencross alone has more value than Johansson.
I said this to the original proposal that still had us giving away John Carlson which he changed. But there is no way Glencross has more value than Johansson.

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Old
12-20-2012, 02:20 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by capitalsrock View Post
I said this to the original proposal that still had us giving away John Carlson which he changed. But there is no way Glencross has more value than Johansson.
Glencross actually hits people and is our best defensive forward. He's a better version of Laich. Everyone knows it's way easier to score in the East and Glencross outscored him too, despite missing out on a significant chunk of the season. If he'd played every game we'd be talking 32 goals. Plus all the extra's that you get with guys like Glencross, Laich, Brown ect.

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Old
12-20-2012, 02:22 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post


It took a career year and an unsustainable shooting percentage for a 29 year old Glencross to reach 48 points. A 21 year old Johansson put up 46. Johansson's value is miles ahead of Glencross'.
Glencross missed out on a big chunk of the year and he did that. 32 goals was the pace he was on. More than double what Johansson put up in a way, way more offensive system. Not to mention he sees soft, sheltered minutes, while Glencross plays against the best every single night.

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Old
12-20-2012, 02:23 PM
  #50
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Terrible for the Caps. Although, it does help the Flames' centre issue.

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