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Red Wings Prospect Depository IV - A New Thread About Prospects

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Old
12-18-2012, 10:24 PM
  #176
StormSurge9
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Although it seemed to be confirmed by a few sources, I found one that disputes this.

"Mark Edwards ‏@MarkEdwardsHP

As I tweeted earlier, no #Petes players have asked for a trade at this time. Rumours about 3 players doing so are false. #OHL"

It still wouldn't surprise me if any, or all, are dealt. Especially Quine, seeing as he will likely be AHL bound next year.

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12-19-2012, 06:44 AM
  #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by majorleaguebrian88 View Post
Although it seemed to be confirmed by a few sources, I found one that disputes this.

"Mark Edwards ‏@MarkEdwardsHP

As I tweeted earlier, no #Petes players have asked for a trade at this time. Rumours about 3 players doing so are false. #OHL"

It still wouldn't surprise me if any, or all, are dealt. Especially Quine, seeing as he will likely be AHL bound next year.
Petes aren't like in Stevie Y's days I guess..

I hope Quine stays in junior next year. We don't have lots of spot in Grand Rapids. Or some kids need to go to Europe.

Tvrdon
Frk
Järnkrok
Ferraro
Sheahan
Pulkkinen
Jurco
Tatar

are all imo more important, have higher upside/are more surefire to make the big show. And all should get top6 ice time along with pp time. And it would be better for those kids progress that they stay in GR, instead of go to Europe where Wings can't control their development and so on.

Maybe if couple of those make NHL, then it's ok to get Quine in AHL. But I doubt that happens. So imo it's betetr for he's progress that he would stay in junior than play bottom 6 mins in GR with no pp time. GR needs some vets too, not the best solution to make top9 that has all under the age of 22 imo.

Well, Quine may blowout offensively if he gets to a better team with more support and that could change things.

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Old
12-19-2012, 07:17 AM
  #178
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Does anyone understand the rules on loaning players to other AHL teams. Can you still do that?

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Old
12-19-2012, 07:47 AM
  #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rzombo4 prez View Post
Does anyone understand the rules on loaning players to other AHL teams. Can you still do that?
I think so, although that has also gotten more complicated with all the teams using those these days. Chances are the Wings would place them in the ECHL to rip it apart before going that route.

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Old
12-19-2012, 07:49 AM
  #180
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Originally Posted by kemisti View Post
Petes aren't like in Stevie Y's days I guess..

I hope Quine stays in junior next year. We don't have lots of spot in Grand Rapids. Or some kids need to go to Europe.

Tvrdon
Frk
Järnkrok
Ferraro
Sheahan
Pulkkinen
Jurco
Tatar

are all imo more important, have higher upside/are more surefire to make the big show. And all should get top6 ice time along with pp time. And it would be better for those kids progress that they stay in GR, instead of go to Europe where Wings can't control their development and so on.

Maybe if couple of those make NHL, then it's ok to get Quine in AHL. But I doubt that happens. So imo it's betetr for he's progress that he would stay in junior than play bottom 6 mins in GR with no pp time. GR needs some vets too, not the best solution to make top9 that has all under the age of 22 imo.

Well, Quine may blowout offensively if he gets to a better team with more support and that could change things.
I think the forward spots won't be a problem for Griffins at season 2013-14. Nyquist and Andersson are gone for sure and Tatar maybe goes to replace Cleary. That opens spots for Pulkkinen, Järnkrok and Frk.

Pare could be a spare part for Tvrdon, if his career is over. Hoggan/Raedeke makes a spot for Quine, or there's still leverage to keep him at juniors. What ever is the best way.

Ferraro - Järnkrok - Pulkkinen
Jurco - Sheahan - Frk
Quine/Hoggan - Aubry - Tvrdon/Pare
Parkes - Quine/Raedeke - Callahan
(Goon, Veteran)

It goes pretty well IMO...

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Old
12-19-2012, 08:55 AM
  #181
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I don't think the Wings bring Jarnkrok over until he's ready to step directly into the NHL.

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Old
12-19-2012, 09:19 AM
  #182
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Originally Posted by FissionFire View Post
I don't think the Wings bring Jarnkrok over until he's ready to step directly into the NHL.
I think that Järnkrok might stay one more season in Sweden but after that it's perhaps time to play in NA even if it will be in the AHL (he could always be given a few games in the NHL)

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Old
12-19-2012, 10:02 AM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
I think the forward spots won't be a problem for Griffins at season 2013-14. Nyquist and Andersson are gone for sure and Tatar maybe goes to replace Cleary. That opens spots for Pulkkinen, Järnkrok and Frk.

Pare could be a spare part for Tvrdon, if his career is over. Hoggan/Raedeke makes a spot for Quine, or there's still leverage to keep him at juniors. What ever is the best way.

Ferraro - Järnkrok - Pulkkinen
Jurco - Sheahan - Frk
Quine/Hoggan - Aubry - Tvrdon/Pare
Parkes - Quine/Raedeke - Callahan
(Goon, Veteran)
Hogan, Pare, Raedeke all have expiring contracts and are unlikely to return. Expect a couple veteran forwards to be added and they will be regulars not extra bodies like the lineup above shows.

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Old
12-19-2012, 10:39 AM
  #184
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Originally Posted by griffs View Post
Hogan, Pare, Raedeke all have expiring contracts and are unlikely to return. Expect a couple veteran forwards to be added and they will be regulars not extra bodies like the lineup above shows.
I wouldn't count on it (regular veterans). We are doing better than nobody thought right now without any veterans in important offensive roles. Only current regular veterans there are Hoggan, Pare and Grant and they are 2nd liner, 3rd liner and a Goon. Hoggan doesn't penalty kill or join the PP. Pare runs the 2nd PP. Grant is a mentor for Callahan. Paetsch and Evans have some defensive roles, but those are gone, when Ouellet and Sproul jump there at next season. Maybe Nedomlel and Jensen also push the older people away.

Red Wings have 100% control for Griffins now, and the prospects will get the most important roles to maximize the development. Just sign some minor veterans there to leadership roles, nothing more.

I also wouldn't count it out, that Järnkrok is the one "veteran" signed there for next season. 1-way contract quarantees better money he can get by staying in Sweden. They did it with Ericsson (1-way quaranteed money in AHL), why not do the same with Calle ? IMO he has no reason to be there for another season, because Griffins wither does not have a 1st line center (because Andersson waiver-eligibility ends). Sheahan is obviously not ready. Järnkrok fits to that role perfectly and gets a smoother transition to North American hockey and Wings system Blashill is teaching down there.


Last edited by Henkka: 12-19-2012 at 10:45 AM.
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Old
12-19-2012, 11:11 AM
  #185
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Originally Posted by FissionFire View Post
I don't think the Wings bring Jarnkrok over until he's ready to step directly into the NHL.
This. Jarnkrok will not play a single game in the AHL.

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12-19-2012, 11:11 AM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Tomas W View Post
I think that Järnkrok might stay one more season in Sweden but after that it's perhaps time to play in NA even if it will be in the AHL (he could always be given a few games in the NHL)
I really hope that Jarnkrok does not stay in Sweden for another year, he has accomplished all that he can there. IMO playing in GR and being one of the first injury call ups will be better for his development then another year in the SEL.
However this pesky lock-out does make things more complicated

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Old
12-19-2012, 11:38 AM
  #187
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There is also a ECHL option, I'm looking at Frk and Tvrdon. Better to have them playing 1st line. Also I see there being a chance that Bert doesn't make it back, that will open one more spot.

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Old
12-19-2012, 11:51 AM
  #188
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If the Petes are going to actually go rebuild, they would be even worse then they are right now. It would be a pretty bad situation to have Quine in.

If anything it should be Trvdon down in the ECHL and not the A. He hasn't exactly been reliable given his injury history. If would be nice to have him prove himself at a lower level first to make sure he can maintain his level of play.

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Old
12-19-2012, 11:59 AM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Hakan2Holland View Post
This. Jarnkrok will not play a single game in the AHL.
Please explain your argument, why do you think so?

I know the Wings management has said this kind of things about him, but it doesn't seem reasonable. Håkan Andersson can say Järnkrok will jump straight over, but Ken Holland sends him down because he sees he's not ready. Just because he can. They have said glory things about propects earlier, and the hard truth has been putting them down.

I would understand this situation keeping him at 1st line role at SEL, if we would have another guy logging the 1st line minutes at our AHL affiliate. But we won't have. That's why the best organizational move is to bring Järnkrok over the pond and let him play that same 20 minutes a night in AHL to get used to North American hockey.

NHL-callup if an important center goes down. 15 games NHL, 60 games AHL is my presumption for him. Just like Nyquist did at last season. Then if Datsyuk leaves, he has full shoes to be filled at season 2014-15 and he is already used to NA hockey.

Win-Win-Win scenario.

Quote:
Originally Posted by majorleaguebrian88 View Post
If anything it should be Trvdon down in the ECHL and not the A. He hasn't exactly been reliable given his injury history. If would be nice to have him prove himself at a lower level first to make sure he can maintain his level of play.
Hmm, I would do it opposite way. If someone needs icetime, it's that projected 1-2 line scorer Frk.

I see Tvrdon's potential as a Kopecky-like defensive line player, so why not put him to 3rd AHL line with a limited role, that fits better to his damaged body? I see it that way. One healthy season in a limited role to get his body confidence back, and if he does well, then promote to bigger ice-time and so on. You have to be careful with this guy. Unlimited ECHL-role could just make things worse.


Last edited by Henkka: 12-19-2012 at 12:07 PM.
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Old
12-19-2012, 01:55 PM
  #190
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Jokerit beat Espoo Blues 4-0 at home, Pulkkinen assisted on the 4th goal, keeping his scoring streak alive.

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Old
12-19-2012, 02:07 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by FissionFire View Post
I don't think the Wings bring Jarnkrok over until he's ready to step directly into the NHL.
The Wings just had Cory Emmerton as a centerman for an entire season. I'm 100% sure Calle is ready to step into the Wings roster for 2013-14.

A nice moment for a DRW&Jokerit fan such as myself at the Jokerit game tonight. There was an interview with Pulkkinen on the screen and the question was "Where would you like to play if not with Jokerit?". Answer was of course "Detroit".


Last edited by ChadS: 12-19-2012 at 02:19 PM.
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Old
12-19-2012, 02:21 PM
  #192
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The Wings just had Cory Emmerton as a centerman for an entire season. I'm 100% sure Calle is ready to step into the Wings roster for 2013-14.
Yeah, I'm definitely with the group who think Jarnkrok ain't playing in the AHL. If Sheahan still needs some maturing and he spends next year in the A then it is very easy to have Jarnkork start off as your 3rd line center and bump Helmer down to center the 4th line. That would give you three lines with solid offensive chops and a 4th line full of forechecking demons.

What's not to like?

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Old
12-19-2012, 03:18 PM
  #193
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Why is pulkkinens numbers way down since last season?

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12-19-2012, 03:30 PM
  #194
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Why is pulkkinens numbers way down since last season?
Erik Karlsson took his 1st line PP ice time (where he got a good percentage of his points)

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Old
12-19-2012, 04:06 PM
  #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
Please explain your argument, why do you think so?

I know the Wings management has said this kind of things about him, but it doesn't seem reasonable. Håkan Andersson can say Järnkrok will jump straight over, but Ken Holland sends him down because he sees he's not ready. Just because he can. They have said glory things about propects earlier, and the hard truth has been putting them down.

I would understand this situation keeping him at 1st line role at SEL, if we would have another guy logging the 1st line minutes at our AHL affiliate. But we won't have. That's why the best organizational move is to bring Järnkrok over the pond and let him play that same 20 minutes a night in AHL to get used to North American hockey.

NHL-callup if an important center goes down. 15 games NHL, 60 games AHL is my presumption for him. Just like Nyquist did at last season. Then if Datsyuk leaves, he has full shoes to be filled at season 2014-15 and he is already used to NA hockey.

Win-Win-Win scenario.
I'd be happy to.

It is, of course, only a matter of opinion. But I've seen Jarnkrok play many times and there simply isn't much in his game that needs seasoning anymore. Before this season I'd say he still needed to gain weight/strength to adjust to the North American style. And while he will certainly need to hit the weight-room again this summer, he is on track at 6' and around 180 lbs. Another 10 pounds of muscle this summer and he'll be close to 190.

Then there is the success at the SEL level. For the last few years he has been one of the better all around players in a high echelon, professional men's league. He isn't producing in a junior level league, he is doing it against ex-NHLers and other highly-paid professionals.

Which brings me to another point, that being: many high-end NHL prospects do not take kindly to being asked to play in the AHL when they could be playing at home, in front of bigger crowds, and making a lot more money in the SEL. Now, sometimes it is necessary if a player needs to adjust to the style, culture, or has a glaring weakness; but I don't believe this to be the case with Jarnkrok. If, for some reason, he isn't ready for the NHL in 2013/2014 then he'll play another year in the SEL before making the jump.

His style is a perfect fit for the wings, and if the salary cap drops even more like anticipated his entry-level contract will be too good of a bargain to stash in Grand Rapids. I think there is a chance that Filppula's contract demands will be too rich for the Wing's blood and that makes Jarnkrok even more valuable considering he could be a cheap replacement.

Those are my thoughts anyways. And that is without mentioning Andersson and other wing's brass love affair with the kid. He is simply the best forward prospect we've had since Zetterberg and I see them giving him every opportunity to make the big club next season.

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Old
12-19-2012, 04:32 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by ChadS View Post
The Wings just had Cory Emmerton as a centerman for an entire season. I'm 100% sure Calle is ready to step into the Wings roster for 2013-14.

A nice moment for a DRW&Jokerit fan such as myself at the Jokerit game tonight. There was an interview with Pulkkinen on the screen and the question was "Where would you like to play if not with Jokerit?". Answer was of course "Detroit".
What's he weighing in at these days? that would be the concern. As long as he has the size and strength so he can be productive and DURABLE.

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12-19-2012, 04:34 PM
  #197
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Why is pulkkinens numbers way down since last season?
Jokerit's offense is much stronger than last season and this has lowered his icetime which also results in worse linemates. Until a while ago he had only very limited PP time which is were he is most useful, but is now on the 1st unit (until Val returns, I guess). Lately, partly thanks to the PP time, he has started to produce better and has 7 points (4+3) in 7 games.

While his numbers have gone down, he's developed into a better overall player with better skating and more strenght in battles. Skating still needs work and sometimes his decisions with the puck could be better.

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Old
12-19-2012, 04:36 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
Hmm, I would do it opposite way. If someone needs icetime, it's that projected 1-2 line scorer Frk.

I see Tvrdon's potential as a Kopecky-like defensive line player, so why not put him to 3rd AHL line with a limited role, that fits better to his damaged body? I see it that way. One healthy season in a limited role to get his body confidence back, and if he does well, then promote to bigger ice-time and so on. You have to be careful with this guy. Unlimited ECHL-role could just make things worse.
He is going to have to learn how to do it or he won't make the NHL, but I don't think you know very much about Tvrdon game. He doesn't have much of a defensive game to speak of to date, he does occasionally kill penalties, but he isn't very good defensively and I always thought that was done because Vancouver was trailing most of the time I saw it.

Some good players are going to be in the ECHL it looks like. It will be on them to win jobs and play well. I don't think they should use all the vetern spots next year. I feel bad for Grand Rapids because they are trying to win too. but they get a decent spike from being in Michigan and being associated with the Wings. It will be tough, but I just don't think they can use four veteran spots next year.

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12-19-2012, 04:48 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by Hakan2Holland View Post
He is simply the best forward prospect we've had since Zetterberg and I see them giving him every opportunity to make the big club next season.
My "opinion" is based on our contract situation. We have too many forwards in front of him for next year and some waiver-guys will be in front of him because losing them could not be the wisest option. And Griffins have the missing 1st line center at same time.

We are too stacked for 2014, especially if Brunner and Nyquist will pan out, and I'm a big believer on both. But after 2014, when Sammy and Bertuzzi are gone and maybe Datsyuk too, then it's Järnkrok's time for sure. That's why the one year in AHL fits at best for his transition to NA hockey and also to our contract situation.

Personally I have nothing against him. I just love to have that skilled right-handed playmaker running our offence. And he can get NHL-money at AHL with a 1-way contract. At NHL playoffs he could be added to main roster and so on. Helm-way.

We know how Kenny will do this. He puts the kid down, when everybody starting from Babcock is wanting him up.

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12-19-2012, 05:02 PM
  #200
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Originally Posted by ChadS View Post
Jokerit's offense is much stronger than last season and this has lowered his icetime which also results in worse linemates. Until a while ago he had only very limited PP time which is were he is most useful, but is now on the 1st unit (until Val returns, I guess). Lately, partly thanks to the PP time, he has started to produce better and has 7 points (4+3) in 7 games.

While his numbers have gone down, he's developed into a better overall player with better skating and more strenght in battles. Skating still needs work and sometimes his decisions with the puck could be better.
It should also be mentioned that Jokerit have had huge injury woes throughout the season, with almost half of the regular lineup players missing in every game(meaning frequent line mate changes for Pulu) and that while Jokerit are now leading the league, they've also been one of the least efficient teams in capitalizing on their scoring chances (especially on the road). They've only recently started to find the back of the net.

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