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Old
12-18-2012, 10:16 PM
  #276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DEVILS ALL THE WAY View Post
The guy just can't keep up with the fast pace action and now that you can't hook, clutch of grab... he's not that valuable anymore at even strenght, especially on a bigger surface.

He can still knock you out in the 5th row with a lethal body check but I just think that his better days are well behind him and we just have to face the fact that he'll be on our books for the next 4 years.
He only played two seasons before the lockout.

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12-18-2012, 10:33 PM
  #277
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Volchenkov isn't bad, he's just in a system that clashes with his style.

He's not a useless player and his contract is not a crippling one. He's not a negative value player like Rolston, and I think it's very unfair to lump him in with guys like that.

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12-18-2012, 10:37 PM
  #278
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He's not a crippling contract now. I think if the cap goes down though, and we are a cap ceiling team after re signing Zajac, Elias, and Clarkson(If possible) this is a contract that we might have problems with down the road maybe when we wanna make another forward acquisition possibly.

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12-19-2012, 07:11 AM
  #279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AfroThunder396 View Post
Volchenkov isn't bad, he's just in a system that clashes with his style.

He's not a useless player and his contract is not a crippling one. He's not a negative value player like Rolston, and I think it's very unfair to lump him in with guys like that.
He's exactly in the same ballpark as Rolston. He's a player that is earning big bucks, our highest paid d-men btw, while giving us limited and controled minutes.

That's pretty much Brian Rolston's situation when he was here for his second stint. Rolston was one of our highest paid forwards while earning bottom 6 minutes. When you get paid the big bucks, it's because you're a game changer on the ice... not on the bench.

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12-19-2012, 08:38 AM
  #280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AfroThunder396 View Post
Volchenkov isn't bad, he's just in a system that clashes with his style.

He's not a useless player and his contract is not a crippling one. He's not a negative value player like Rolston, and I think it's very unfair to lump him in with guys like that.
The problem with Volchenkov is that his entire value is based off his in-zone defensive play. He has no offensive value and no value in the transition game. So he better be the best positional defender in his own zone in the NHL. And I don't think he is - not even close. You also can't come close to earning your contract by playing 17-18 minutes/night.

As far as production compared to salary, Volchenkov is easily in the same boat as Rolston.

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12-19-2012, 01:02 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by DEVILS ALL THE WAY View Post
He's exactly in the same ballpark as Rolston. He's a player that is earning big bucks, our highest paid d-men btw, while giving us limited and controled minutes.

That's pretty much Brian Rolston's situation when he was here for his second stint. Rolston was one of our highest paid forwards while earning bottom 6 minutes. When you get paid the big bucks, it's because you're a game changer on the ice... not on the bench.
Except $4M isn't big bucks anymore, it's market value for a mid-pairing defenseman. Tyutin, Oduya, Ballard, Liles, Regher, Kuba....these aren't premier guys, they've mid-range support players in the $3.8-4.2M range. It's not a frontloaded deal where he's making $7-8M this season, he has a flat salary every year of his deal. When you're already $12M below the salary cap it doesn't matter if one player on your roster is moderately overpaid.

Remember when we first signed Zubrus, and half of this board wanted to buy him out after one season because he was earning such a "hefty" contract and wasn't producing the way we had hoped?

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Originally Posted by Feed Me A Stray Cat View Post
The problem with Volchenkov is that his entire value is based off his in-zone defensive play. He has no offensive value and no value in the transition game. So he better be the best positional defender in his own zone in the NHL. And I don't think he is - not even close. You also can't come close to earning your contract by playing 17-18 minutes/night.

As far as production compared to salary, Volchenkov is easily in the same boat as Rolston.
I don't agree with that at all. You need to be the best player in the world at your job to earn mid-range salary? Yeah, he's a black hole on offense, I don't dispute that. But he's a world class penalty killer and an above average ES defender in his own zone. He just has poor mobility, which means he sucks in transition. He's not a dinosaur, he's 29 years old. I'm not prepared to give up on him just because of a poor playoffs. Before March/April of last year no one had any complaints about his play.

Do I wish he was making 20% less? Absolutely. But he's not Rolston. Rolston was an declining player on a +35 deal that couldn't do anything on the ice but we were forced to play. Volchenkov is simply a moderately overpaid #4-5 defensive specialist. He's still an NHL-caliber player. He's not a detrimental player to the team with negative value. Buying him out does not improve this hockey team.

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12-19-2012, 01:07 PM
  #282
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Remember though the salary cap will likely be at $60 million, or in the lower $60s. After we re sign all our UFA's, and give our RFA's raises we might be very close to the cap ceiling. And that's without a winger that many agree this team needs.

And yes I remember when people wanted Zubrus bought out in 2010. Someone made up a rumor he was being bought out. I remember when some people complained about Zubrus's salary early last season too. Someone said ''Well the cap has gone up since Zubrus was signed 4 years ago, so his hit isn't that much'' and this is exactly why I hope to god we don't give Zubrus what he's making right now on his next contract. If we do then I promise people will not be happy. Other than that he's been worth his contract he's on now, and has given us better value than NYR, and the Habs got out of Gomez that's for sure.

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12-19-2012, 01:11 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by AfroThunder396 View Post
Except $4M isn't big bucks anymore, it's market value for a mid-pairing defenseman. Tyutin, Oduya, Ballard, Liles, Regher, Kuba....these aren't premier guys, they've mid-range support players in the $3.8-4.2M range. It's not a frontloaded deal where he's making $7-8M this season, he has a flat salary every year of his deal. When you're already $12M below the salary cap it doesn't matter if one player on your roster is moderately overpaid.

Remember when we first signed Zubrus, and half of this board wanted to buy him out after one season because he was earning such a "hefty" contract and wasn't producing the way we had hoped?



I don't agree with that at all. You need to be the best player in the world at your job to earn mid-range salary? Yeah, he's a black hole on offense, I don't dispute that. But he's a world class penalty killer and an above average ES defender in his own zone. He just has poor mobility, which means he sucks in transition. He's not a dinosaur, he's 29 years old. I'm not prepared to give up on him just because of a poor playoffs. Before March/April of last year no one had any complaints about his play.

Do I wish he was making 20% less? Absolutely. But he's not Rolston. Rolston was an declining player on a +35 deal that couldn't do anything on the ice but we were forced to play. Volchenkov is simply a moderately overpaid #4-5 defensive specialist. He's still an NHL-caliber player. He's not a detrimental player to the team with negative value. Buying him out does not improve this hockey team.
Where`s the like button when you need it...

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12-19-2012, 01:27 PM
  #284
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12-19-2012, 01:33 PM
  #285
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This thread has gotten slightly off topic. Thankfully there is an Ablany game tonight

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12-19-2012, 01:35 PM
  #286
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Don't forget this one


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12-19-2012, 01:37 PM
  #287
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This thread has gotten slightly off topic. Thankfully there is an Ablany game tonight
It's fitting, considering how many people apparently assume Volch is an AHL caliber defenseman.

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12-19-2012, 01:56 PM
  #288
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LOL Why did Volchenkov even get that goal? Clarkson scored a bunch of goals off his leg, and arm last season! Shouldn't that goal have been Patty's? Even when Mike Mottau shot a puck, and it hit Bobby Holik's helmet they gave it to Holik!

And I don't think he's an AHL defensemen. He's just overpaid to me. Gimme Volchenkov at Tallinder's salary, and length in years I'd be much happier. Even if he didn't have a no trade clause I'd feel much better even at the salary he's at now.

Yes there is an Albany game tonight. Against the leaning tower of pads sir Anders Nilsson, and Bridgeport. That's if he gets the start.

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12-19-2012, 02:04 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by Bleedred View Post
LOL Why did Volchenkov even get that goal? Clarkson scored a bunch of goals off his leg, and arm last season! Shouldn't that goal have been Patty's? Even when Mike Mottau shot a puck, and it hit Bobby Holik's helmet they gave it to Holik!

And I don't think he's an AHL defensemen. He's just overpaid to me. Gimme Volchenkov at Tallinder's salary, and length in years I'd be much happier. Even if he didn't have a no trade clause I'd feel much better even at the salary he's at now.

Yes there is an Albany game tonight. Against the leaning tower of pads sir Anders Nilsson, and Bridgeport. That's if he gets the start.
It didn't hit Elias. Volch's shot hit Quick's pad which kicked it out right into the shoulder of Voynov and it went into the net lol

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12-19-2012, 02:13 PM
  #290
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It didn't hit Elias. Volch's shot hit Quick's pad which kicked it out right into the shoulder of Voynov and it went into the net lol
It didn't go off Patty's helmet? I swore it did! Eyes aren't what they used to be!

Even when I first watched it the first time I remember them changing the scoring to Volchenkov, and I'm thinking what?

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12-19-2012, 02:25 PM
  #291
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It didn't go off Patty's helmet? I swore it did! Eyes aren't what they used to be!

Even when I first watched it the first time I remember them changing the scoring to Volchenkov, and I'm thinking what?
Yea, it literally hit Voynov's shoulder and bounced straight back the way it came. Since Quick overcommitted he wasn't in the way, thus: goal.

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12-19-2012, 02:28 PM
  #292
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Except $4M isn't big bucks anymore, it's market value for a mid-pairing defenseman. Tyutin, Oduya, Ballard, Liles, Regher, Kuba....these aren't premier guys, they've mid-range support players in the $3.8-4.2M range. It's not a frontloaded deal where he's making $7-8M this season, he has a flat salary every year of his deal. When you're already $12M below the salary cap it doesn't matter if one player on your roster is moderately overpaid.

Remember when we first signed Zubrus, and half of this board wanted to buy him out after one season because he was earning such a "hefty" contract and wasn't producing the way we had hoped?
Volchenkov is beyond brutal with the most important object in the game, that alone is a massive handicap right there. Then you have a freaking contract that is 3x too long and also includes a motherf'n NTC clause... but that's on Lou and not Anton or his agent, so that's another topic for another day.

Where it becomes a little more tricky is the fact that our highest paid d-men is actually our 4th or 5th best blueliner, wich limits us when trying to attrack UFA's or resign one of our own. Agents feed off of that and compare salaries all the time when trying to negotiate a deal for one of his clients.

Anyways, I can't wait to see him play somewhere else and have our forwards blow right by him... or get a PP cause he'll go out of his way to destroy someone who just gave the puck away for a good 2 or 3 seconds. I might have to wait another 4 years but when it'll happen, I'll be thrilled... and oh yeah, I'd take any player you mentionned over A-Train any day of the week.

Regarding Zubrus, he's a gel type of player, meaning he can play anywhere on any line and his game won't come back to bite us in the rear end and that's worth every penny of his salary. The same can't be said for Anton... unfortunatly.

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12-19-2012, 02:28 PM
  #293
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Devils leading scorer in the LA series was Slava Voynov...

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12-19-2012, 02:59 PM
  #294
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Did you know Anton Volchenkov actually scored the Devils first ever goal at Prudential Center?

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Devils leading scorer in the LA series was Slava Voynov...
Haha he scored the goal for Salvador the game winner in game 5 right?

Did he also deflect the Carter goal in game 2? Don't remember. The only skilled goal we scored that whole series was Henrique's game winner in game 4. Elias scored on a rebound that game, and so did Henrique in game 6.

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12-19-2012, 02:59 PM
  #295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AfroThunder396 View Post
I don't agree with that at all. You need to be the best player in the world at your job to earn mid-range salary? Yeah, he's a black hole on offense, I don't dispute that. But he's a world class penalty killer and an above average ES defender in his own zone. He just has poor mobility, which means he sucks in transition. He's not a dinosaur, he's 29 years old. I'm not prepared to give up on him just because of a poor playoffs. Before March/April of last year no one had any complaints about his play.

Do I wish he was making 20% less? Absolutely. But he's not Rolston. Rolston was an declining player on a +35 deal that couldn't do anything on the ice but we were forced to play. Volchenkov is simply a moderately overpaid #4-5 defensive specialist. He's still an NHL-caliber player. He's not a detrimental player to the team with negative value. Buying him out does not improve this hockey team.
Volchenkov is more than moderately overpaid - as it stands, his contribution could probably be replaced for $1-$1.5M.

And I don't really care what Volchenkov's "type" is. The fact that he's an albatross on offense and in transition still needs to always be in this conversation, because those are still parts of being a defenseman, whether Volchenkov is good at it or not. Likewise, I wouldn't just ignore Matt Taormina's or Peter Harrold's defensive zone play, simply because their job is to be good at transition.

Personally, I think Peter Harrold brings more to the team in totality than Volchenkov does.

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12-19-2012, 03:06 PM
  #296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AfroThunder396 View Post
I don't agree with that at all. You need to be the best player in the world at your job to earn mid-range salary? Yeah, he's a black hole on offense, I don't dispute that. But he's a world class penalty killer and an above average ES defender in his own zone. He just has poor mobility, which means he sucks in transition. He's not a dinosaur, he's 29 years old. I'm not prepared to give up on him just because of a poor playoffs. Before March/April of last year no one had any complaints about his play.

Do I wish he was making 20% less? Absolutely. But he's not Rolston. Rolston was an declining player on a +35 deal that couldn't do anything on the ice but we were forced to play. Volchenkov is simply a moderately overpaid #4-5 defensive specialist. He's still an NHL-caliber player. He's not a detrimental player to the team with negative value. Buying him out does not improve this hockey team.
That is actually not true, sadly enough. I was looking into it a few days ago when this conversation started up.

ILWT managed to sum it all up better than I could hope to:
http://www.inlouwetrust.com/2012/10/...-the-nj-devils

EDIT: I meant to only bold the part about his effectiveness at evens.

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12-19-2012, 03:10 PM
  #297
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And while 29 obviously isn't "old", defensemen who play Volchenkov's style can fall off the map very fast.

See Jay McKee, Rhett Warrener, Colin White, etc.

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12-19-2012, 03:10 PM
  #298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feed Me A Stray Cat View Post
Volchenkov is more than moderately overpaid - as it stands, his contribution could probably be replaced for $1-$1.5M.

And I don't really care what Volchenkov's "type" is. The fact that he's an albatross on offense and in transition still needs to always be in this conversation, because those are still parts of being a defenseman, whether Volchenkov is good at it or not. Likewise, I wouldn't just ignore Matt Taormina's or Peter Harrold's defensive zone play, simply because their job is to be good at transition.

Personally, I think Peter Harrold brings more to the team in totality than Volchenkov does.
Games 5 and 6 against the Rangers have been on NHLnetwork the past few hours and while watching both, I agree with this. However, Harrold and Volchenkov look very effective together, but from what I can tell, it's just always up against low quality opponents (usually out against Stralman's pairing or whatever line Rupp was on, as far as I can tell) and with little ice time overall.

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12-19-2012, 03:50 PM
  #299
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Just to make myself clear I do not think Volchenkov's contract is handcuffing. Not just yet. However if the cap goes down, and we can't make other acquisitions cause we got all our money tied up in defensive defenseman one way Volchenkov years down the road it might be. I mean how much you think Clarkson is gonna want? Even if he will just be a perennial 20/25/45 guy you think we can re sign him for cheaper than Anton?

I hated the Rolston contract when we signed him on 7/1/08. Even when everybody else was so happy with it.

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12-19-2012, 04:41 PM
  #300
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I recall Volch joining the rush and scoring a goal vs Philly last season, I think on a pass from Kovy.

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