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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part X: Is There Any Hope? Edition

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Old
12-19-2012, 03:59 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Im not doing that. At all.

What I am doing is bringing into question the willingness for teams to give away a cheap and notable asset like that for a 32 year old Gaborik, his questionable shoulder, and - most importantly - his $7.5M cap hit.
If his contract ran for 5 more years, I could see your point. But it's one year. He's had shoulder problems before, and scored 41 goals after being plagued by injuries two years ago.

Again, how is a 10-15 pick a "notable asset?" we're getting MacKinnon or Jones there? How about Monahan? No. We don't know what we're getting there.

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12-19-2012, 04:03 PM
  #102
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The main story is that this line was used for the 1000th time of the lockout:

Quote:
Everybody is affected by this lockout. It's not like we're on strike. We would love to be able to play hockey right now.

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Old
12-19-2012, 04:03 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Henriks Broadway Hat View Post
If his contract ran for 5 more years, I could see your point. But it's one year. He's had shoulder problems before, and scored 41 goals after being plagued by injuries two years ago.

Again, how is a 10-15 pick a "notable asset?" we're getting MacKinnon or Jones there? How about Monahan? No. We don't know what we're getting there.
It becomes a notable asset to the Ranger when it allows the team to clear a ton of salary cap space.

I dont think you have any idea how the new CBA is going to impact the landscape of the league. While your twiddling your thumbs looking for some sort of fair value for Gaborik, its going to create a very, very bad cap situation for the Rangers and their younger players who are due raises.

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12-19-2012, 04:14 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
It becomes a notable asset to the Ranger when it allows the team to clear a ton of salary cap space.

I dont think you have any idea how the new CBA is going to impact the landscape of the league. While your twiddling your thumbs looking for some sort of fair value for Gaborik, its going to create a very, very bad cap situation for the Rangers and their younger players who are due raises.
Yeah. I've been following the "negotiations" every day. Don't give me that "you don't know line." I perfectly well know that the Rangers are going to be screwed by the new CBA. I also know that Redden isn't going to be able to be hidden in the AHL. I know that McDonagh, Stepan, Hagelin, and possibly Sauer are due for raises next summer. I perfectly well know that Bettman is proposing a 60 M cap in year 2 of the CBA. What I don't know is how you can justify that a draft pick that may or may not pan out is good value for a 41 goal scorer, no matter the situation

Am I advocating for Gabriel Landeskog or Huberdeau coming back? No. I'm only saying that a 10-15 pick ain't gonna cut it.

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12-19-2012, 04:26 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
It becomes a notable asset to the Ranger when it allows the team to clear a ton of salary cap space.

I dont think you have any idea how the new CBA is going to impact the landscape of the league. While your twiddling your thumbs looking for some sort of fair value for Gaborik, its going to create a very, very bad cap situation for the Rangers and their younger players who are due raises.
These players getting new contracts will have a new value under the new cba as well. Unless they wantto go to a lesser team, they will take a lower deal. Gabby is fine, and there will be mew values set for the mcdonaghs and stepans of the nhl based on the cap. It will be either take a hit in money or play on a worse team. The players will decide. Knowing Sather and how well he manages rfas, they will not be overpayed unless their deals eat into ufa years. I think it is worrying for really no reason. Sather will do what it takes to get under the cap when we get there. Expect redden to be bought out now as well.

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12-19-2012, 04:29 PM
  #106
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You guys are quite stupid if you think they will trade Gaborik. There was no point in adding Nash if that were the case.

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12-19-2012, 04:39 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by RGY View Post
You guys are quite stupid if you think they will trade Gaborik. There was no point in adding Nash if that were the case.
If the cap goes to 60 million they may not have a choice.

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12-19-2012, 04:46 PM
  #108
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If the cap goes to 60 million they may not have a choice.
For one you do not know what the exact number will be. Two, the rumors are it would be $60 million in year two. By next year they could clear 3rd/4th line salaries to create room. Hopefully a couple of the AHLers are ready to replace them.

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12-19-2012, 04:48 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
The whole point of trading Gaborik would be to clear cap space in the new NHL environment that will likely come with a lower cap in 13-14. The Nash trade was basically a wash when it came to cap space changing hands.
Dubi 4.2
Artie 1.875
Nash 7.8

That's an extra 1.725 mil for 1 less player. So really, it's at least 2.5 mil extra. That's not insignificant.

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12-19-2012, 04:51 PM
  #110
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I really don't see any way to extend McDonagh/Stepan/Hagelin and keep Gabby with a 60M cap.

The plan was clearly to take 2 runs with Nash and Gabby but that fell through due to 1. Howson and 2. the lockout.

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12-19-2012, 04:57 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by RGY View Post
For one you do not know what the exact number will be. Two, the rumors are it would be $60 million in year two. By next year they could clear 3rd/4th line salaries to create room. Hopefully a couple of the AHLers are ready to replace them.
The 60 million cap would start next year, 2013-14.

Rangers have 52 million already committed for that season with Stepan, Hagelin ,McDonagh, Del Zotto, and possibly Sauer to sign.

Also Redden's cap will count so that 52 becomes 58.5 plus all the guys in the AHL making more than 105,000 will count against the cap.

If they buy out Redden his cap hit goes from 6.5 to 3.2 so they can have 55.3 million committed with 4-5 players to sign.

There will be no amnesty buyouts.

This is all assuming the NHL gets their way.

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Old
12-19-2012, 05:59 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by RGY View Post
You guys are quite stupid if you think they will trade Gaborik. There was no point in adding Nash if that were the case.
Youre going to feel quite stupid this summer when the cap realities start hitting

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12-19-2012, 06:55 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Youre going to feel quite stupid this summer when the cap realities start hitting
Hah. Ooook guy.

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Old
12-19-2012, 07:16 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by RGY View Post
Hah. Ooook guy.
Would you care explaining to the group how the Rangers retain Gaborik when the cap is going to go down, and the salaries of our younger players will be going up?

Or is it really just as simple as you ignoring basic mathematics?

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12-19-2012, 07:33 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Would you care explaining to the group how the Rangers retain Gaborik when the cap is going to go down, and the salaries of our younger players will be going up?

Or is it really just as simple as you ignoring basic mathematics?
I'm not even going to waste my time like you guys are. I don't have to explain anything to you. All you guys are doing is bickering over hearsay. You don't know at all what is going to happen. I'm not going to sit here and get swallowed up by this bs over something that doesn't even exist aka an NHL season. What mathematics do I have to pay attention to? You mean the non factual rumors of numbers being tossed out there?

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12-19-2012, 07:38 PM
  #116
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Thisis what it really comes down to. The owners don't want to budge because they want "this is it" to have meaning for future negotiations. Giving more takes that away from them. The players refuse to give the owners one inch more than neccesary because they're still livid about the last CBA negotiation and want to get vengeance.

Basically whoever makes the final push is the "loser" and both parties have realized that. Even though the distance between them is marginal, its a matter of principal... or ego depending on your viewpoint.

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12-19-2012, 07:56 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by KingWantsCup View Post
Thisis what it really comes down to. The owners don't want to budge because they want "this is it" to have meaning for future negotiations. Giving more takes that away from them. The players refuse to give the owners one inch more than neccesary because they're still livid about the last CBA negotiation and want to get vengeance.

Basically whoever makes the final push is the "loser" and both parties have realized that. Even though the distance between them is marginal, its a matter of principal... or ego depending on your viewpoint.
Which is why I'm all for throwing out the season if it means we may have a chance to change the leadership. The leadership, as it currently is configured, cannot be in charge anymore.

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12-19-2012, 08:38 PM
  #118
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On heels of Daly narrowing drop dead date 2 mid Jan, NHL 2 hold conf call w/partners thurs. These events usually precede big announcements.
https://twitter.com/darenmillard/sta...82243326074880

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Old
12-19-2012, 09:06 PM
  #119
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Well, I would hope so, or else Bill Daly will look like a huge schmuck with his "there will be a season" proclamation.

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12-19-2012, 09:42 PM
  #120
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Well, I would hope so, or else Bill Daly will look like a huge schmuck with his "there will be a season" proclamation.
If it looks like a schmuck, swims like a schmuck...ahh forget it.

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12-19-2012, 10:27 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
I really don't see any way to extend McDonagh/Stepan/Hagelin and keep Gabby with a 60M cap.

The plan was clearly to take 2 runs with Nash and Gabby but that fell through due to 1. Howson and 2. the lockout.
God this franchise has such awful luck.

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Old
12-19-2012, 10:30 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
I really don't see any way to extend McDonagh/Stepan/Hagelin and keep Gabby with a 60M cap.

The plan was clearly to take 2 runs with Nash and Gabby but that fell through due to 1. Howson and 2. the lockout.
I haven't done the math yet, but whatever math you're doing...

Take ~14% off the number you think these guys will get. You gotta remember that we're resetting the market here.

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12-19-2012, 10:37 PM
  #123
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I haven't done the math yet, but whatever math you're doing...

Take ~14% off the number you think these guys will get. You gotta remember that we're resetting the market here.
I definitely hear and respect your point that the market will be reset with the new CBA. I still think, however low you project our RFAs it is going to be tough to fit them all under 60M without shedding something big (aka Gabby). Trust me I wish it were not the case.

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12-19-2012, 10:41 PM
  #124
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Breaking news:

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/87...me-labor-talks

Union wants to restart talks with NHL.

Donald really cares about us.




"Any time you have a dispute like this ... any time you are preventing the fans from watching the sport, which provides the business we're all involved in -- it's not a good thing," Fehr said. "And it needs to be ended as soon as possible. We certainly hope we can do that. We certainly want to tell the fans we're doing everything we can to do that.''

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12-19-2012, 10:44 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by ltrangerfan View Post
Breaking news:

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/87...me-labor-talks

Union wants to restart talks with NHL.

Donald really cares about us.




"Any time you have a dispute like this ... any time you are preventing the fans from watching the sport, which provides the business we're all involved in -- it's not a good thing," Fehr said. "And it needs to be ended as soon as possible. We certainly hope we can do that. We certainly want to tell the fans we're doing everything we can to do that.''
If you really were doing everything you could, the puck would have been dropped on October 11.

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