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NHL Lockout Discusion XXXIII: It's the same old song. **MOD WARNING POST 274

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12-20-2012, 09:40 AM
  #101
kivaerijo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nailor Hopberle View Post
If the league and PA feel that fans will always come back no matter what type of labour dispute is going on, these lockouts or potentially strikes, will continue to happen. Fans need to take a stand with their wallets and make the league and players pay for all of this nonsense. Until this happens, they will continue to walk all over us.
While I agree with this statement, once the league starts up again, the contracts with players are signed. Me not going to games is only gonna affect the owners pockets and isn't gonna affect the players at all until the following year (revenue will go down). And by that point some of the teams fold, now I can't walk to a game 3 times a week, and I have done nothing but hurt me.

How do you (not just you, but everyone saying this) propose we do this?

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12-20-2012, 09:46 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by kivaerijo View Post
While I agree with this statement, once the league starts up again, the contracts with players are signed. Me not going to games is only gonna affect the owners pockets and isn't gonna affect the players at all until the following year (revenue will go down). And by that point some of the teams fold, now I can't walk to a game 3 times a week, and I have done nothing but hurt me.

How do you (not just you, but everyone saying this) propose we do this?
We wear those spandex 'green men' suits and dump monopoly money onto the ice / players' benches.

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12-20-2012, 09:46 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by oilersfan11 View Post
Then what's the next step?Decertification?
IMO, It will pass, then the NHLPA will say they need to consider their next step (if they wish to carry through with the DOI). Read: Stall and see if it builds pressure on the owners.

In the meantime, today or tomorrow, 2 more weeks will be cancelled. Owners basically saying 'nope' to the pressure.

NHLPA will then proceed with the DOI.

NHL will then cancel the season.

Sometime in March the DOI is ruled against and the lockout is deemed legal.

With the season already cancelled, the negotiations slow to a crawl for several months.

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Old
12-20-2012, 09:49 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by MacOfNiagara View Post
IMO, It will pass, then the NHLPA will say they need to consider their next step (if they wish to carry through with the DOI). Read: Stall and see if it builds pressure on the owners.

In the meantime, today or tomorrow, 2 more weeks will be cancelled. Owners basically saying 'nope' to the pressure.

NHLPA will then proceed with the DOI.

NHL will then cancel the season.

Sometime in March the DOI is ruled against and the lockout is deemed legal.

With the season already cancelled, the negotiations slow to a crawl for several months.
Sounds about right.

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12-20-2012, 09:49 AM
  #105
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Time called the NHL the "wanna be". Just get a deal. Compromise. Both sides. Long term CBA. 10 years. Fehr does not like it but his players wouldn't mind some security and Fehr will be leaving right after the CBA is done. His wife wants to him to go back into retirement again. Fehr will help find his replacement and go home. Bettman is 60 years old. This is his last CBA if its a long term CBA which it will be. Gary will be somewhere in Florida playing golf every day. Enough with the work stoppages. Put the game back on the ice where it belongs. Both sides need to shut up,make a deal and step away. No "Thank You Fans" on the ice. It should be "Sorry We ****ed Up... Again".

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Old
12-20-2012, 09:50 AM
  #106
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I imagine once they get closer to a drop dead date in the middle of January, you'll start seeing a deal finalize.

But I suppose they have defied logic for so long, they may as well try to defy it longer? Perhaps that is too logical. I can't predict the next steps.

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12-20-2012, 09:53 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by KingsFan7824 View Post
Trying to get leverage. Nobody wants to go to court, because it's not really done, so you're not completely sure which way it goes. The threat of doing it, by either side, hopefully, is what gets the deal done.
Which is why it will get quickly thrown out of court.

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Old
12-20-2012, 09:53 AM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nailor Hopberle View Post
To quote Homer Simpson:

"Professional athletes, always wanting more."
And the owners don't?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanklite View Post
Actually, your post is the "immature perspective"

People make billions off the players? I want to see that spread sheet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nailor Hopberle View Post
Who makes billions off of players' talents? Total revenue for all of the NHL is around $3B, with over half going to the players, not to mention all of the other costs that are covered.
How about all of the secondary and tertiary industries the NHL helps make money? The League as an entity is only part of the whole that profits from professional hockey.

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12-20-2012, 09:56 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by RedMenace View Post
And the owners don't?





How about all of the secondary and tertiary industries the NHL helps make money? The League as an entity is only part of the whole that profits from professional hockey.
You just directly contradicted yourself. It is the NHL and the owners that finance those other businesses. Not the players...

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12-20-2012, 10:00 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Hanklite View Post
You just directly contradicted yourself. It is the NHL and the owners that finance those other businesses. Not the players...
What?

Dude.

The first part was directed at the comment stating that the players just want to make more money. I countered with "and the owners don't," because they want more money just as much as the players.

The second part was directed at the apparent statements that the only people who make money ("billions") off of the players is the NHL, to which I posited that there are more industries that benefit from the playing of professional hockey. Without people to play professional hockey, there is no professional hockey.

I have no idea what you're getting at.

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12-20-2012, 10:03 AM
  #111
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Just wake me up when it's January 15th.

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Old
12-20-2012, 10:03 AM
  #112
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The damage the NHL has inflicted on itself and its brand - its willingness to severely alienate its fans, sponsors and employees - during a time in which the sport has been growing steadily, well it's so illogical and irrational that it's foolhardy to somehow expect logic to prevail.

Bettman's outrage that the players didn't react with overwhelming gratitude when the owners threw a bit more "make-not-quite-whole" money on the table just shows what an inpenetrable bubble he lives in. As if the players are supposed to be eternally grateful that the league is only trying to claw-back some, instead of all, of the costs of contracts they don't like. The people that run this league and have been driving this lockout have no idea what an embarassment they are.

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Old
12-20-2012, 10:06 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Hanklite View Post
You just directly contradicted yourself. It is the NHL and the owners that finance those other businesses. Not the players...
The owners don't finance those businesses, the fans do. What draws the fans in? The players...

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Old
12-20-2012, 10:06 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by RedMenace View Post
What?

Dude.

The first part was directed at the comment stating that the players just want to make more money. I countered with "and the owners don't," because they want more money just as much as the players.

The second part was directed at the apparent statements that the only people who make money ("billions") off of the players is the NHL, to which I posited that there are more industries that benefit from the playing of professional hockey. Without people to play professional hockey, there is no professional hockey.

I have no idea what you're getting at.
Umm no, but good try at back peddling.

You said the "Players" make people billions of dollars. That is simply flat out wrong.

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Old
12-20-2012, 10:15 AM
  #115
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I hate to say it, but despite some minor fan protests, I predict that IF there is a season, NHL Fans and Sponsers will welcome back to the NHL with open arms. Let's face it, true NHL fans are starving to get their league back in the ice. I've already proclaimed that I will NEVER go to another NHL game again if the whole season gets cancelled. But I'm praying it doesn't come to that. Though realistically, I can't see an agreement being done to save the season. I think we are past the point of no return already.

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12-20-2012, 10:17 AM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
The owners don't finance those businesses, the fans do. What draws the fans in? The players...
This is pretty silly consider how much the owners have to pay compared to the players. I don't remember the last time the players payed for ice maintenance, generators, electrical bill for the arena, countless number of employees, zamboni's, ice time at practice faculty, plane for the players, gas for plane for players, 5 star hotel rooms, etc.

The only bill players have is their monthly payment for their brand new Ferrari 458.


Last edited by Crimson Skorpion: 12-20-2012 at 10:55 AM.
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12-20-2012, 10:18 AM
  #117
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Fans in northern markets will come back. A lot of sponsors I doubt will come back or they will get better deals.

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Old
12-20-2012, 10:19 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
The owners don't finance those businesses, the fans do. What draws the fans in? The players...
Minor quibble: SOME players draw the fans in. IMO only a small percentage of players actually generate fan interest all on their own. The rest is generated by the team as a singular entity.

Being an Oiler fan, I've never once bought a ticket or PPV thinking "Ooh, Shawn Horcoff is playing tonight...can't wait!"

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Old
12-20-2012, 10:20 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by scott99 View Post
I hate to say it, but despite some minor fan protests, I predict that IF there is a season, NHL Fans and Sponsers will welcome back to the NHL with open arms. Let's face it, true NHL fans are starving to get their league back in the ice. I've already proclaimed that I will NEVER go to another NHL game again if the whole season gets cancelled. But I'm praying it doesn't come to that. Though realistically, I can't see an agreement being done to save the season. I think we are past the point of no return already.
I would agree if a deal had gotten done during that frenzy a couple weeks ago. I'm not so sure anymore after all that went down.

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12-20-2012, 10:21 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
This is pretty silly consider how much the owners have to pay compared to the players. I don't remember the last time the players payed for ice maintenance, generators, electrical bill for the arena, countless number of employees, zamboni's, ice time at practice faculty, plane for the players, gas for plane for players, 5 star hotel rooms, etc.

The only bill players have is their monthly payment for their brand new Ferrari 458.
You are right, the only expenses players pay is for their vehicle. They don't pay for food or shelter or anything like that......

Woe into the billionaire that has to pay for the expenses of running his business..


Last edited by Crimson Skorpion: 12-20-2012 at 10:55 AM.
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Old
12-20-2012, 10:24 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Joe McGrath View Post
You are right, the only expenses players pay is for their vehicle. They don't pay for food or shelter or anything like that......

Woe into the billionaire that has to pay for the expenses of running his business..
It must be so hard to pay off that house with the million dollar signing bonus. After that, I bet monthly food bills are killers, I mean they are on the road for half of the year on the companies dime. So much food just goes to waste at home. Rotting.

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Old
12-20-2012, 10:25 AM
  #122
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I disagree on this point. It's in BOTH parties best interest to treat this as a partnership. Overall, I'm pro-owner, but IMO Bettman poisoning the well the last time around which has directly led us to where we are now. Both groups should be working together to grow the game, and that's about as far from where we are now as humanly possible.

IMO, Bettman is an inhibitor to getting a deal done. He should have been given a big bonus and been cut loose after the last CBA. His relationship with the players is so poor, and there is no credibility or trust to fall back on in trying to work together a deal.
I pretty much said that point in my fallowing sentences, but one side wasn't pulling their half.

Gary is not their for the players in this, if we were talking about rule changes and protecting the players better, I half agree with you, but we're not.

This is about the CBA where Gary front-lines the owners, and Donald front-lines the NHLPA. One decided to start negotiations and the other said no and implemented his stall tactics from day one. That lasted many, many months, more than these three months they've been engaged/un-engaged in talks.


Why has the good faith dealings from the PA side surfaced so late?, and I'm loosely using the term good faith dealing since it's been almost nonexistent.

It's one thing not trusting the league, but to show your distrust before they even engage in talks, before you even get a sense of where they may head, while not even giving them a chance with meeting/starting early as possible, they deserve every bit of suffering they get. They insured they bestowed upon themselves this, leading to unfair not very good faith dealings.

They truly deserve what they don't get at this point, the owners are not some mob of angry hooligans, but they're pretty fair these days when it come to their players. it's not the 1930's/40's/50's. Last, it's not the 1990's or 2004, either.

The last CBA is gone, both sides knew it and what the repercussions of what that meant.

"I'd rather they just signed an agreement earlier, and said thank you fans for your patriotism, either way, I don't give a damn that either of them lose money so long as the league itself is stable."

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Old
12-20-2012, 10:30 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by CommonMeans View Post
I don't follow. You implied that the NHLPA was looking to decertify, whereas reports are that there is a vote for a DOI - something different than decertification.

As for what replacement players have to do with anything, I guess you can enlighten me?
Potatoes, potatos

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12-20-2012, 10:33 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
This is pretty silly consider how much the owners have to pay compared to the players. I don't remember the last time the players payed for ice maintenance, generators, electrical bill for the arena, countless number of employees, zamboni's, ice time at practice faculty, plane for the players, gas for plane for players, 5 star hotel rooms, etc.

The only bill players have is their monthly payment for their brand new Ferrari 458.
Who generates the money to pay for those things? The players.


Last edited by Crimson Skorpion: 12-20-2012 at 10:55 AM.
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Old
12-20-2012, 10:35 AM
  #125
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It must be so hard to pay off that house with the million dollar signing bonus. After that, I bet monthly food bills are killers, I mean they are on the road for half of the year on the companies dime. So much food just goes to waste at home. Rotting.
And who generates the company's dime?

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