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Old
12-20-2012, 12:04 PM
  #376
Vankiller Whale
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Originally Posted by StringerBell View Post
Uhh what? I really don't think he's NHL ready at this point, but maybe it's just me.
To provide depth and as a call-up. Gillis was recently on Team1040 saying he needs 8 defensemen for the season and 10 for the playoffs to help alleviate the risks of injuries and such. Petrovic would be a vast improvement over our 10th best defenseman.

Hamhuis
Edler
Bieksa
Garrison

Ballard
Tanev
Petrovic<----
Alberts

Connauton
Sauve

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12-20-2012, 12:21 PM
  #377
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Originally Posted by Ag925 View Post
Gee, when have I heard this from Panthers fans before? Oh yeah, every year for the past 12 years. According to Panthers fans, Florida is perpetually in re-build mode. "Sucking today to win tomorrow." Funny thing is, the winning part seems to never come. I call BS. You're kidding yourself if you think Tallon wants to move backwards from a playoff berth, especially one in which his club came within one goal of knocking out the eventual Eastern Conference champs.


I was looking for a counter-point to Coolburn's arguments and insight, but I didn't think it would be you Ag925. This surprises me.



Anyways, my opinion is that FLA has interest, but it's lukewarm yet. Same position I have had for a long-time. This is contrasted by Coolburn's position that interest isn't there, and by your own saying that it is.



In the end, who knows?

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Old
12-20-2012, 12:33 PM
  #378
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
To provide depth and as a call-up. Gillis was recently on Team1040 saying he needs 8 defensemen for the season and 10 for the playoffs to help alleviate the risks of injuries and such. Petrovic would be a vast improvement over our 10th best defenseman.

Hamhuis
Edler
Bieksa
Garrison

Ballard
Tanev
Petrovic<----
Alberts

Connauton
Sauve
I don't see Petrovic sliding in above Alberts, or even Joslin for that matter. He still struggles with the speed of the AHL at this point in his career from what I've seen, and would be a longshot as an upgrade over established NHL depth guys. If we were to trade for him it would be so he can make an impact in 3 years, not any time in the immediate future. Shore on the other hand could step into the NHL in spot duty right away, and wouldn't surprise anyone if he makes it out of camp next season.

Just my opinion, obviously.

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12-20-2012, 12:37 PM
  #379
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ag925 View Post
Gee, when have I heard this from Panthers fans before? Oh yeah, every year for the past 12 years. According to Panthers fans, Florida is perpetually in re-build mode. "Sucking today to win tomorrow." Funny thing is, the winning part seems to never come. I call BS. You're kidding yourself if you think Tallon wants to move backwards from a playoff berth, especially one in which his club came within one goal of knocking out the eventual Eastern Conference champs.
Gee, when have we had a GM (or anyone in charge TBH) that had a clue about how to build a winning franchise? Tallon is the first one that we've had that is proven he knows what he wants and what it takes to win consistently. And he clearly knows that it takes time to develop these players and wont be rushing them into the NHL like past regimes did (thats what doomed us in the past, rushing guys like Frolik, Olesz, etc right to the NHL). He proved that last yr by sending Huberdeau back to juniors when he could've made the Panthers by how he played in preseason.

Thats why those previous 10 yrs before Tallon were especially bad with the Panthers saying "wait for the youngsters to develop" because they didnt have a proper plan to develop the prospects. Now, there will be only the top echelon of talent that wont be going thru at least some time in the minors with Tallon in charge. And even Guds who made the NHL as a 19 yr old, wasnt thrown right to the wolves and played top mins until late in the season after he adjusted (he was even sat from time to time to give him some perspective).

And no, he's not willing to move backwards but he's also not going to sacrifice the future just for a short term fix either unless we were truly contender. Sure we were 1 goal away from advancing in the Eastern Conference playoffs last yr but we still have glaring holes in other areas more important than goaltending. Many teams have proven you can still make the playoffs without some star goalie either (Jimmy Howard, Mike Smith, Elliot/Halak, Niemi, etc). Honestly, if we needed a goalie it would be a stopgap until Markstrom is more proven he can handle the load. And thats not what Luongo is...we would be better off going after someone like Kipper or just re-signing Theo for 1 more yr IMO.

You can disagree to your hearts content about this but the fact remains, when Gillis asked for Bjugstad to be including, Tallon balked at the idea. Tallon has stated since then that the "ball is in Gillis' court" meaning Tallon has stated what he's willing to give up for Luongo and it most likely wont included Bjugstad. You dont have to like it but you really should accept it.

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12-20-2012, 12:40 PM
  #380
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Originally Posted by Coolburn View Post
You can disagree to your hearts content about this but the fact remains, when Gillis asked for Bjugstad to be including, Tallon balked at the idea. Tallon has stated since then that the "ball is in Gillis' court" meaning Tallon has stated what he's willing to give up for Luongo and it most likely wont included Bjugstad. You dont have to like it but you really should accept it.


Curious Coolburn, did you hear this directly from Viner or other internal source, or are you going off the information out there?

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12-20-2012, 12:43 PM
  #381
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Originally Posted by StringerBell View Post
I don't see Petrovic sliding in above Alberts, or even Joslin for that matter. He still struggles with the speed of the AHL at this point in his career from what I've seen, and would be a longshot as an upgrade over established NHL depth guys. If we were to trade for him it would be so he can make an impact in 3 years, not any time in the immediate future. Shore on the other hand could step into the NHL in spot duty right away, and wouldn't surprise anyone if he makes it out of camp next season.

Just my opinion, obviously.
Well he's 6'4, so obviously his skating isn't going to be his strong suit, but he still skates fairly well for someone that size. I definitely don't see him as a 3-year project, and I think that there's a pretty good chance he would have cracked the Panthers lineup this season, and could probably play as our #7 as early as next season. Again, this boils down to opinion, but I think that most Panthers fans would say Petrovic is the better prospect as well.

I think that with Schroeder and Gaunce in the system, we have less of a need for Shore than we do for Petrovic.

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12-20-2012, 12:44 PM
  #382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
I was looking for a counter-point to Coolburn's arguments and insight, but I didn't think it would be you Ag925. This surprises me.



Anyways, my opinion is that FLA has interest, but it's lukewarm yet. Same position I have had for a long-time. This is contrasted by Coolburn's position that interest isn't there, and by your own saying that it is.



In the end, who knows?
Actually my position isnt that the interest isnt there but just it doesnt work for the Panthers to make a deal. I dont want to say there's zero interest or there wouldnt have been some contact between the 2 teams. As you said, its lukewarm and it depends on the price.

Obviously Tallon, if he was really interested, would be looking to acquire Luongo fairly cheap while trading salary back for it to even work for the Panthers. That doesnt sound like it would work for Gillis & the Canucks so we're at that standstill of the Panthers & Canucks dont seem like good partners for this deal (unless something changes drastically).

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12-20-2012, 12:47 PM
  #383
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Curious Coolburn, did you hear this directly from Viner or other internal source, or are you going off the information out there?
That comes from info thats already been out there and since no trade was made, I think we can assume that its been confirmed. Do you really doubt that its true that Tallon balked at trading Bjugstad after they pushed so hard this past summer to sign him to a contract to turn around and trade him when they were trying to convince him to leave college?? Doesnt make much sense to me.

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12-20-2012, 12:51 PM
  #384
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Originally Posted by Coolburn View Post
Actually my position isnt that the interest isnt there but just it doesnt work for the Panthers to make a deal. I dont want to say there's zero interest or there wouldnt have been some contact between the 2 teams. As you said, its lukewarm and it depends on the price.

Obviously Tallon, if he was really interested, would be looking to acquire Luongo fairly cheap while trading salary back for it to even work for the Panthers. That doesnt sound like it would work for Gillis & the Canucks so we're at that standstill of the Panthers & Canucks dont seem like good partners for this deal (unless something changes drastically).


The standstill is very apparent with all partners at this point. It comes down to every team taking a step back because of the offseason and the subsequent lock out. Right now, every team is complete, and no one needs anything. This is why I am looking forward to the season start. We'll know the needs of each team more acutely. As a result, we'll know who really wants Luongo, and who can stand to pass on him.



As for fit, all the Canucks are looking for are prospects/picks IMO. In that vain, FLA makes a good partner. However, this also largely depends on their ability to transfer/take on salary and where they see Markstrom in the next 2-3 years.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolburn View Post
That comes from info thats already been out there and since no trade was made, I think we can assume that its been confirmed. Do you really doubt that its true that Tallon balked at trading Bjugstad after they pushed so hard this past summer to sign him to a contract to turn around and trade him when they were trying to convince him to leave college?? Doesnt make much sense to me.



I actually do think Tallon balked at including Bjugstad... right now. He has little incentive to include him. That said, moving forward, if he feels he needs Luongo more so than he thought, then I can see a _prospect_ like that back on the table. It's all the incentive at this point, and that's tied to need. Not that Bjugstad himself is the second coming, because he isn't. Other teams have high calibre prospects, no different from NB is. It's just that the need isn't there yet.



The other thing to remember too is that having to send salary back will definitely impact the quality of the assets involved. Maybe Bjugstad was taken off the table because it was contingent on sending poor salary back, something Gillis doesn't want. I have to believe that if Gillis takes on salary he will be insisting on better quality as the other pieces.


Last edited by Bleach Clean: 12-20-2012 at 12:57 PM.
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Old
12-20-2012, 01:00 PM
  #385
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Originally Posted by Coolburn View Post
Gee, when have we had a GM (or anyone in charge TBH) that had a clue about how to build a winning franchise? Tallon is the first one that we've had that is proven he knows what he wants and what it takes to win consistently. And he clearly knows that it takes time to develop these players and wont be rushing them into the NHL like past regimes did (thats what doomed us in the past, rushing guys like Frolik, Olesz, etc right to the NHL). He proved that last yr by sending Huberdeau back to juniors when he could've made the Panthers by how he played in preseason.

Thats why those previous 10 yrs before Tallon were especially bad with the Panthers saying "wait for the youngsters to develop" because they didnt have a proper plan to develop the prospects. Now, there will be only the top echelon of talent that wont be going thru at least some time in the minors with Tallon in charge. And even Guds who made the NHL as a 19 yr old, wasnt thrown right to the wolves and played top mins until late in the season after he adjusted (he was even sat from time to time to give him some perspective).

And no, he's not willing to move backwards but he's also not going to sacrifice the future just for a short term fix either unless we were truly contender. Sure we were 1 goal away from advancing in the Eastern Conference playoffs last yr but we still have glaring holes in other areas more important than goaltending. Many teams have proven you can still make the playoffs without some star goalie either (Jimmy Howard, Mike Smith, Elliot/Halak, Niemi, etc). Honestly, if we needed a goalie it would be a stopgap until Markstrom is more proven he can handle the load. And thats not what Luongo is...we would be better off going after someone like Kipper or just re-signing Theo for 1 more yr IMO.

You can disagree to your hearts content about this but the fact remains, when Gillis asked for Bjugstad to be including, Tallon balked at the idea. Tallon has stated since then that the "ball is in Gillis' court" meaning Tallon has stated what he's willing to give up for Luongo and it most likely wont included Bjugstad. You dont have to like it but you really should accept it.
Throughout Florida's entire organization, who do you consider untouchable?

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Old
12-20-2012, 01:00 PM
  #386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
The standstill is very apparent with all partners at this point. It comes down to every team taking a step back because of the offseason and the subsequent lock out. Right now, every team is complete, and no one needs anything. This is why I am looking forward to the season start. We'll know the needs of each team more acutely. As a result, we'll know who really wants Luongo, and who can stand to pass on him.



As for fit, all the Canucks are looking for are prospects/picks IMO. In that vain, FLA makes a good partner. However, this also largely depends on their ability to transfer/take on salary and where they see Markstrom in the next 2-3 years.
But the standstill for FL started after the draft as the teams (also confirmed in the media) hadnt spoken prior to the lockout starting. That was basically 2+ months of not communicating about Luongo which should tell you how much FL really wants Luongo.

As I said previously, it really ends up being not being able to absorb Luongo's $6.7 million salary for the next 5+ yrs without dealing a big salary in return. Gillis from his comments does not want to take salary back in the deal and that is where it all breaks down for FL. They would have to include a player making $3M+/yr and the only 2 guys that arent as critical to the team's success last yr was Kopecky and Upshall. Upshall has a NMC/modified NTC so that makes a deal more difficult to complete but not impossible. Still that leaves the Panthers on the hook for at least 2 more yrs at Luongo's salary where they wouldnt have Kopecky or Upshall anymore so thats a big factor as well (I'm figuring Luongo plays for the next 5 yrs at least).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
I actually do think Tallon balked at including Bjugstad... right now. He has little incentive to include him. That said, moving forward, if he feels he needs Luongo more so than he thought, then I can see a _prospect_ like that back on the table. It's all the incentive at this point, and that's tied to need. Not that Bjugstad himself is the second coming, because he isn't. Other teams have high calibre prospects, no different from NB is. It's just that the need isn't there yet.

The other thing to remember too is that having to send salary back will definitely impact the quality of the assets involved. Maybe Bjugstad was taken off the table because it was contingent on sending poor salary back, something Gillis doesn't want. I have to believe that if Gillis takes on salary he will be insisting on better quality as the other pieces.
Yup and I guess we are in agreement there. It would require more valuable assets that FL isnt interested in trading to complete the deal because of Gillis not wanting to take on salary. Its completely understandable too from Gillis and dont blame him. I think he can get a better deal from another organization myself but like you said, it will depend on who really has the need for Luongo.

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12-20-2012, 01:05 PM
  #387
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I think the emergence of Frankie Corrado puts less pressure on the need to pick up a RH defenseman prospect.

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12-20-2012, 01:09 PM
  #388
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Originally Posted by Coolburn View Post
But the standstill for FL started after the draft as the teams (also confirmed in the media) hadnt spoken prior to the lockout starting. That was basically 2+ months of not communicating about Luongo which should tell you how much FL really wants Luongo.



It took FLA and VAN longer than a year to complete the Booth deal. 2 months is nothing. Assuming of course that you believe reports that they haven't communicated in 2 months.



TO also tried to employ the waiting game in the offseason.



Quote:
As I said previously, it really ends up being not being able to absorb Luongo's $6.7 million salary for the next 5+ yrs without dealing a big salary in return. Gillis from his comments does not want to take salary back in the deal and that is where it all breaks down for FL. They would have to include a player making $3M+/yr and the only 2 guys that arent as critical to the team's success last yr was Kopecky and Upshall. Upshall has a NMC/modified NTC so that makes a deal more difficult to complete but not impossible. Still that leaves the Panthers on the hook for at least 2 more yrs at Luongo's salary where they wouldnt have Kopecky or Upshall anymore so thats a big factor as well (I'm figuring Luongo plays for the next 5 yrs at least).



If salary is the only caveat _AND_ Gillis is being compensated to take on that salary eventually, then I definitely see a deal go down between these teams. Gillis doesn't _want_ to take on salary. But if it came down to taking on temporary salary and getting the quality assets he wants, then I have to believe he will accept the salary to do the deal.


Time to wait and see if that is in fact the stumbling block to all of this.

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12-20-2012, 01:09 PM
  #389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ag925 View Post
Throughout Florida's entire organization, who do you consider untouchable?
I dont ever consider there to be a true untouchable list for any team because for the right offer, ANYONE is available. You offer me up Stamkos for Kulikov, I take it in half of a second (exaggeration was my point here, dont think I'm serious please).

However, if I had to make a list of players/prospects that are harder to move, the list would be (in no specific order, though I listed prospects together and current players together):

Huberdeau
Markstrom
Bjugstad
Howden
Petrovic

Gudbranson
Campbell
Fleischmann
Versteeg
possibly Kulikov but unsure right now

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12-20-2012, 01:13 PM
  #390
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I think the emergence of Frankie Corrado puts less pressure on the need to pick up a RH defenseman prospect.


Not really, because you can't hinge everything on him. RDs and Cs are still the priority as far as prospects go.



In general though, VAN does have more depth on D than they do at F in the pipeline.

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12-20-2012, 01:18 PM
  #391
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Originally Posted by Coolburn View Post
I dont ever consider there to be a true untouchable list for any team because for the right offer, ANYONE is available. You offer me up Stamkos for Kulikov, I take it in half of a second (exaggeration was my point here, dont think I'm serious please).

However, if I had to make a list of players/prospects that are harder to move, the list would be (in no specific order, though I listed prospects together and current players together):

Huberdeau
Markstrom
Bjugstad
Howden
Petrovic

Gudbranson
Campbell
Fleischmann
Versteeg
possibly Kulikov but unsure right now
With that long of a list, what's keeping you from including Grimaldi, Knight, Shore and Robak?

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12-20-2012, 01:19 PM
  #392
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
It took FLA and VAN longer than a year to complete the Booth deal. 2 months is nothing. Assuming of course that you believe reports that they haven't communicated in 2 months.



TO also tried to employ the waiting game in the offseason.
Well Tallon confirmed that in an article that the teams hadnt spoken since the draft back in like September IIRC. I'd have to dig up the article to confirm but I kinda believe thats true.

I dont think FL is employing the waiting game like TO is/has done. I think, based on Tallon's comments and what I heard from the Panthers owner, that they are basically waiting on Gillis to come down on his asking price.
Quote:
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If salary is the only caveat _AND_ Gillis is being compensated to take on that salary eventually, then I definitely see a deal go down between these teams. Gillis doesn't _want_ to take on salary. But if it came down to taking on temporary salary and getting the quality assets he wants, then I have to believe he will accept the salary to do the deal.


Time to wait and see if that is in fact the stumbling block to all of this.
Well salary is the biggest caveat but not the only one. Tallon isnt going to trade a top 5 prospect for Luongo when one of those top 5 prospects is a goalie thats close to being NHL-ready. If Gillis has to take on salary and accepts that as part of a deal, that still wont get a deal done unless he backs off his demands for probably a top 5 prospect like Bjugstad. If he accepts a deal based around someone like Shore (who could be a top 5 prospect in many other orgs), then you could see a deal go down if salary is going back in the deal.

Another factor becomes whether or not the Panthers are planning to re-sign Weiss long term. I think they do and it should cost them in the $4-5.5M neighborhood and would dictate where they spend salary in other areas like goaltending.

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12-20-2012, 01:22 PM
  #393
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Originally Posted by Coolburn View Post
I dont ever consider there to be a true untouchable list for any team because for the right offer, ANYONE is available. You offer me up Stamkos for Kulikov, I take it in half of a second (exaggeration was my point here, dont think I'm serious please).

However, if I had to make a list of players/prospects that are harder to move, the list would be (in no specific order, though I listed prospects together and current players together):

Huberdeau
Markstrom
Bjugstad
Howden
Petrovic

Gudbranson
Campbell

Fleischmann
Versteeg
possibly Kulikov but unsure right now



The bold is one VAN's perspective of what is actually "untouchable" on the panthers. Really, those pieces should not move in the near future. And to be fair, my untouchable list for VAN is as follows:


Sedins
Schneider (debatable)


That's it. From a team that has won more games than any other team in the last 4 years, that's the untouchable list.

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12-20-2012, 01:26 PM
  #394
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ag925 View Post
With that long of a list, what's keeping you from including Grimaldi, Knight, Shore and Robak?
How is that a long list? 5 prospects and 5 NHLers isnt that long at all. Thats like maybe 15% of the entire organization and I think every team should be able to identify 10 players that would be hard to move. I didnt include any others because in the right deal, they are much more available than the others I listed. I would rather not trading Grimaldi or Robak or Shore but for the right deal, its easier to stomach and would be fair value for other teams as well.

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12-20-2012, 01:27 PM
  #395
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
More than Lundqvist, Rinne, or Price.

Also, age or contract is not an argument for how good a player he is.
im not sure if in the modern nhl a player can be evaluated solely on his play on the ice. this is part of the reason why players with lesser stats can still have tremendous value.

if we are discussing luongos caliber as a goalie in a vacuum then it is difficult to dismiss statistical evidence. the thing is we are discussing his "value" which is in relation to variables such as stats, age, contract, past performance during important games, etc, etc.

a goalie such as halak who most would agree is not as good as luongo would still force a reasonable person to consider the benefit of having halak over luongo. why would that be? age + contract = the great equalizer. dont get me wrong i would like luongo on the leafs very badly but his contract + his age seriously reduces his value and masks his true value much in the same way that jeff finger will likely never play a game in the nhl because of the ridiculous contract he was given. obviously these a two completely different type of players and situations but i contend that had finger been given a contract for $1-1.5 million he would be playing on the bottom pairing on the leafs and likely have been a fan favorite. my point with finger is that his contract killed his value the same as luongos contract is killing his. had luongo been signed for only a 5-7 year deal then his value would be higher.

it is because of this contract that halak with his career sv% of 918 and career gaa of 2.43 while being 6 years younger then luongo and making apx. 1/2 of what luongo makes for a third of his term makes halak the more valuable goalie in todays nhl. contrastly luongo has a career sv% of 919 and a career gaa of 2.52. halaks playoff numbers are actually better then luongos as well.

i used halak as an example but price, lundqvist, and rinne would all be the same thing. younger goalies who are statistically equal without the excessive contract

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12-20-2012, 01:28 PM
  #396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
The bold is one VAN's perspective of what is actually "untouchable" on the panthers. Really, those pieces should not move in the near future. And to be fair, my untouchable list for VAN is as follows:


Sedins
Schneider (debatable)


That's it. From a team that has won more games than any other team in the last 4 years, that's the untouchable list.
Hamhuis is untouchable barring severe overpayment.

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12-20-2012, 01:29 PM
  #397
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Well Tallon confirmed that in an article that the teams hadnt spoken since the draft back in like September IIRC. I'd have to dig up the article to confirm but I kinda believe thats true.

I dont think FL is employing the waiting game like TO is/has done. I think, based on Tallon's comments and what I heard from the Panthers owner, that they are basically waiting on Gillis to come down on his asking price.


And yet these two GMs waited over a year to deal Booth for Samuelsson. These two guys are not employing a waiting game now? I find that _very_ difficult to believe. I do not agree with your viewpoint on this considering the frequency of trades between FLA and VAN as well as the patience both GMs employed when conducting those trades.





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Well salary is the biggest caveat but not the only one. Tallon isnt going to trade a top 5 prospect for Luongo when one of those top 5 prospects is a goalie thats close to being NHL-ready. If Gillis has to take on salary and accepts that as part of a deal, that still wont get a deal done unless he backs off his demands for probably a top 5 prospect like Bjugstad. If he accepts a deal based around someone like Shore (who could be a top 5 prospect in many other orgs), then you could see a deal go down if salary is going back in the deal.

Another factor becomes whether or not the Panthers are planning to re-sign Weiss long term. I think they do and it should cost them in the $4-5.5M neighborhood and would dictate where they spend salary in other areas like goaltending.


Your inference on Tallon's mindset is your opinion. It's your opinion that Markstrom is being close to NHL ready. It's my opinion he is not.



The top 5 prospect argument is faulty. The rangers had just dealt their #2 prospect, per HF, getting Nash. Yes they are a much better team, but FLA's pipeline is much stronger too, so I'm not understanding why 5 of those prospects have to be protected in the same way some teams might just protect their best prospect _only_.


I could see Shore coming back, but then there would have to be compensation for the fact that Shore is replacing a much better prospect in Bjugstad...

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12-20-2012, 01:31 PM
  #398
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How is that a long list? 5 prospects and 5 NHLers isnt that long at all. Thats like maybe 15% of the entire organization and I think every team should be able to identify 10 players that would be hard to move. I didnt include any others because in the right deal, they are much more available than the others I listed. I would rather not trading Grimaldi or Robak or Shore but for the right deal, its easier to stomach and would be fair value for other teams as well.

Hard to move is not "untouchable". There is a difference.


I think your list is long, and it definitely impedes talk when it is that long.

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12-20-2012, 01:33 PM
  #399
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
The bold is one VAN's perspective of what is actually "untouchable" on the panthers. Really, those pieces should not move in the near future. And to be fair, my untouchable list for VAN is as follows:


Sedins
Schneider (debatable)


That's it. From a team that has won more games than any other team in the last 4 years, that's the untouchable list.
Yes but Vancouver operates differently than the Panthers. The Panthers are a salary conscious team and that dictates that they cant sign players as easily as Vancouver to fill in gaps or convince players to come play there without overpaying. Look at what happened with Garrison, the team couldnt afford his demands so he signed with Vancouver.

And I would say there's probably more players on your untouchable list than you give credit for...I'm betting Kesler, Burrows and probably Edler should be on that list too. Again, its not an untouchable list that I made either...its a "hard to move" list which is much different.

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12-20-2012, 01:34 PM
  #400
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Hamhuis is untouchable barring severe overpayment.


Yeah maybe. And maybe Kassian too. You could make a case for both. However, I see the three players I listed as being lynchpins for the Canucks moving forward. Those names will be synonymous with the Canucks moving forward.

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