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Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Calgary - Washington

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Old
12-20-2012, 02:33 PM
  #51
txpd
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Originally Posted by blankall View Post
Regardless, you cannot deny that Johansson was in a prime position after Backstrom went down. He was given the best minutes of all the centres on his team. A team that featured some of the leagues best wingers.

And yes, Johansson scored at about twice hte pace of Backlund. However, like I said before, Johansson got much much better minutes. Pump up Backlund's non PK ice time by 50% and throw him on a line with Semin or Ovechkin instead of Calgary's energy line, and I guarantee Backlund's numbers would improve.

Sorry I'm just not sold on Johansson. I think he's a good prospect, but not worth giving up Glencross for. He has potential, but not to be the #1 centre the Flames need. The Flames don't need another borderline second line centre at the cost of Glencross.
i think that its helpful to know that dale hunter was the coach the entire time backstrom was out. with that the caps offensive numbers were very low as part of the plan. johansson did get some time with ovechkin, but you may remember that ovechkin's ice time was often slashed when the caps had a lead.

its also true that johansson was never given backstrom's power play time.

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Old
12-20-2012, 02:43 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
Glencross actually hits people and is our best defensive forward. He's a better version of Laich. Everyone knows it's way easier to score in the East and Glencross outscored him too, despite missing out on a significant chunk of the season. If he'd played every game we'd be talking 32 goals. Plus all the extra's that you get with guys like Glencross, Laich, Brown ect.
Glencross is the poor man's Laich, not the other way around. One hot season where he shoots around 25% doesn't make Glencross the better player. Laich also has the ability to play center and is more flexible in how he can be used on the powerplay (can line up anywhere, from crashing the net to on the point). Hell, he even played a full game at defense this past season.

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Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
Glencross missed out on a big chunk of the year and he did that. 32 goals was the pace he was on. More than double what Johansson put up in a way, way more offensive system. Not to mention he sees soft, sheltered minutes, while Glencross plays against the best every single night.
A "way, way more offensive system?" Have you watched the Caps in the past two years? You are aware that Dale Hunter coached the Capitals for most of last season, correct? The Caps were playing a incredibly passive, collapse to the net defensive system with almost no forechecking.

As for Johansson's "soft, sheltered minutes," that's compelte BS. Another Calgary poster was already attempting to use the fact that Johansson started seeing time with the 1st line after Backstrom went down against him, now you're arguing that his minutes were soft and sheltered? His corsi rel QoC was a +0.016, meaning he saw slightly harder than average competition compared to his teammates.

And tell me when Glencross actually scores all those goals he was on pace for.

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12-20-2012, 02:45 PM
  #53
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Eh, I'd rather have Glencross than Laich since he actually knows how to hit people properly, but Johansson is still more valuable.

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12-20-2012, 03:03 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Glencross is the poor man's Laich, not the other way around. One hot season where he shoots around 25% doesn't make Glencross the better player. Laich also has the ability to play center and is more flexible in how he can be used on the powerplay (can line up anywhere, from crashing the net to on the point). Hell, he even played a full game at defense this past season.



A "way, way more offensive system?" Have you watched the Caps in the past two years? You are aware that Dale Hunter coached the Capitals for most of last season, correct? The Caps were playing a incredibly passive, collapse to the net defensive system with almost no forechecking.

As for Johansson's "soft, sheltered minutes," that's compelte BS. Another Calgary poster was already attempting to use the fact that Johansson started seeing time with the 1st line after Backstrom went down against him, now you're arguing that his minutes were soft and sheltered? His corsi rel QoC was a +0.016, meaning he saw slightly harder than average competition compared to his teammates.

And tell me when Glencross actually scores all those goals he was on pace for.
Forget to mention that Glencross is half the price of Laich? A major reason for why Glencross won't be easily traded. Especially if the cap is going down.

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Old
12-21-2012, 01:17 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by blankall View Post
Forget to mention that Glencross is half the price of Laich? A major reason for why Glencross won't be easily traded. Especially if the cap is going down.
Considering that he's not as good as Laich and he's cheaper than him, I think that pretty much fits exactly the description I gave him. "A poor man's Laich."

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12-21-2012, 01:22 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Considering that he's not as good as Laich and he's cheaper than him, I think that pretty much fits exactly the description I gave him. "A poor man's Laich."
Over the last 2 years Glencross has been as good if not better and makes less.

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12-21-2012, 11:06 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Considering that he's not as good as Laich and he's cheaper than him, I think that pretty much fits exactly the description I gave him. "A poor man's Laich."
As the Gleninator mentioned, Glencross has been the better player of the last two years.

As for your description of Glencross as a "poor man's" Laich, because he costs less, that's pretty meaningless in a cap world. In the cap world value is paramount. Glencross is much much better value and, therefore, holds more worth.

Let me put it this way. If we'd moved Backlund to the top line, and he'd put up 40 points last year, would you be all over a Laich+ deal for Backlund....probably not. How would you respond to a thread calling Laich garbage, and saying there's no possibility Flames fans would trade Backlund for Laich?

At the end of the day, playes like Glencross and Laich are always more valuable to their own teams, because they do all the small jobs across so many lines. With Glencross' current contract, there's just no chance we're moving him for anything short of a package towards a bonifide top line player.

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12-21-2012, 03:53 PM
  #58
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First off, please point to where I called Glencross garbage. I simply said that he's not worth Johansson, especially given that his stats were inflated last year by an unsustainable shooting percentage (roughly 10% above his career average) that I can virtually guarantee he won't match in the future.

Glencross has put up better goal/point totals than Laich the past two seasons, sure. But Laich has shown a much more consistent history of being a point and goal contributer than Glencross. Laich has also seen a more defensive role on the team in the past couple years. Rather than being the net presence on the powerplay and on the opposite wing of Semin, he was on the second powerplay unit and centering the shutdown line this past year. That additionally flexibility of playing a multidude of roles for the team (scoring winger, scoring center, shutdown center, penalty killer, powerplay net presence, powerplay point man, emergency defenseman, etc) is part of what gives Laich additional value to the Capitals and why I feel he's a better overall player than Glencross.

I never compared the trade value of Laich and Glencross, becuase they weren't being traded for each other. "Trade value" in itself is a misnomer, because the needs of each team vary so greatly. In the respect that Glencross is more affordable than Laich, yes that would boost his value to many teams over Laich's. But in terms of who is going to help you win a Stanley Cup, which is the Capitals' current goal, Laich is the better option. Laich is the better player, and the Capitals aren't hard pressed against the salary cap right now.

Would I trade Laich for Backlund? Depends on how convincing Backlund looked putting up those hypothetical points and whether or not we felt we could extend Ribeiro. And given that we have Johansson already achieving that production, probably not. If Johansson had put up meager numbers like Backlund did and Ribeiro was walking away, I would certainly consider it. But if Ribeiro clicks with the team, keeping Laich seems like the better option, given that Laich seems a better fit at the 3C role than Backlund does.

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