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Carl Gunnarsson for a forward

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Old
12-19-2012, 11:23 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
He's our #2 Dman and our best Dman defensively. We don't need more forwards at the expense of him, unless its a #1 C
You won't find teams willing to move a 2C for Gunnar, imo.

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12-19-2012, 11:29 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
You won't find teams willing to move a 2C for Gunnar, imo.
Which is why he shouldn't be dealt, we don't need tweeners or b level prospects so why deal him if he will benefit the team more than anything he can return in a deal.

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12-19-2012, 11:32 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
Gunnarson saw his game improve last season.

In Chicago he'd be in a battle with Leddy, Hjalmarsson and Oduya and could be anywhere there 3rd to 6th dman at anytime.

In Philly he'd be behind Timmonen, Coburn and Meszaros so # 4 at best.

In Vancouver he'd be behind Bieksa, Edler, Hamhuis and Garrison.

In San Jose I'd take Stuart as the # 4 over him.
Considering team chemistry....

Leddy would be paired with one of hjalmarsson or Gunnarsson therefore he'd compete for #3
Gunnarsson is on par with meszaros so I'd have him 3/4
Would you want an edler - Garrison pairing? I wouldn't and one would be paired with Gunnarsson
I don't really like Stuart and prefer Gunnarsson to him but again an argument can be made for either

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12-19-2012, 11:35 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
Gunnarson saw his game improve last season.

In Chicago he'd be in a battle with Leddy, Hjalmarsson and Oduya and could be anywhere there 3rd to 6th dman at anytime.

In Philly he'd be behind Timmonen, Coburn and Meszaros so # 4 at best.

In Vancouver he'd be behind Bieksa, Edler, Hamhuis and Garrison.

In San Jose I'd take Stuart as the # 4 over him.
I don't think any one of those is definitive.

Gunnarsson is a valuable asset to the Maple Leafs. If the Leafs are a winning squad with Gunnarsson on the team he'll shed the unvaluable tag and, dare I say, he'd likely be a top-4 on that (winning) squad.

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12-19-2012, 11:41 AM
  #105
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I find it more sensible that with Gardiner and (shortly) Rielly in the lineup, a guy like JM Liles would be the one traded, not Gunnarsson.

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Old
12-19-2012, 11:43 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
I don't think Franson wants back any more than we want him back. We'll take that as a given. What I'd like to know is what you feel about John Michael Liles being signed longterm knowing we have Gardiner and Phaneuf here longterm? Where are our defensive defencemen? Seems sort of VACANT doesn't it? Gunnarsson (who you want traded), and who..........?
I actually like the Liles contract as Dmen of his low impact style can have success into their mid 30s, his contract isn't that long by the crazy contracts that have been getting handed out in recent seasons and considering what other UFA Dmen have signed for his cap hit isn't bad. Replacing Kaberle with Liles who moved the puck quickly and shot on the powerplay is the # 1 reason our PP was so much better last season.

I'm not worried about having Phaneuf, Liles and Gardiner all on the same team for the next season or two.

Phaneuf is a workhorse Dman who plays in every situation and that won't change. He does get caught wandering in the defensive zone at times but he is our clear # 1 dman.

I don't see Gardiner as just an offensive dman and I don't think the Leafs do either. He played a lot on the penalty kill last season. The offensive/transition game will always be his strength but he will continue to grow into an all situation dman. Because of how effortlessly he skates I believe he'll be a 25 minute a night workhorse soon enough.

Having said all the above I'm expecting Liles to get traded in the last season or two of his contract after Rielly is in his 2nd or 3rd season and he needs PP time (along with Phaneuf/Gardiner).

Everybody is worried about our D group but defensively I believe the forwards are actually a bigger issue as they're terrible at supporting the D group or maintaining time in the offensive zone. JVR should help with this though. And the goaltending has been awful.

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Old
12-19-2012, 01:14 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Volcanologist View Post
I find it more sensible that with Gardiner and (shortly) Rielly in the lineup, a guy like JM Liles would be the one traded, not Gunnarsson.
Agreed completely. With Gardiner and Rielly as our soon to be go-to offensive guys, we need more players like Gunnarsson. Not less.

I don't see trading him as a very good idea.

I like Liles alot but with our offensive D prospects and already quite a few offensive guys on the team I think he becomes redundant.

JM Liles for a comparable defensive Dman or a goalie?

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12-19-2012, 02:07 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by The Podium View Post
After acquiring JVR there is really no room for Stewart. Our line up is:

Lupul-xxxx-Kessel
JVR - Grabovski -Kadri/MacArthur
Kulemin - mcclememt - frattin

Phaneuf -xxxx/Gunnarsson
Gardinder - Xxxx/Gunnarsson
Liles - Komisarek/franson/Holzer

Xxxx
Reimer

So as you can see our only holes are a #1C/1G or 2 or 4 D each of which would not be expendable without creating a hole for St. Louis. In other words, we don't make good trading partners.
ok, fair enough. to be honest, I also thought about Stew for Gunnar, even if other Blues fans will hate me for that

but a question about your scenario:
didn't Burke say he wants JVR back at center? in this case I guess you'd easily find a spot for Stewart

and as a Blues fan I can tell you
1) you can't have enough depth and
2)its pretty tough to get a good top6 C these days, we also want to convert Steen back to center because of that

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12-19-2012, 03:02 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
You won't find teams willing to move a 2C for Gunnar, imo.
As a part of a package I meant, I don't expect a legit top 1/2 C straight up for Gunnar... Yet

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12-19-2012, 03:53 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by frostyflo View Post
I already asked in another Gunner thread but didn't get an answer, so I'll try again:
What would you think the Blues have to give up for him?
I don't really see it working to be honest. Leafs have a lot of wingers, they wouldn't swap defensemen unless it was for someone better defensively, Berglund wouldn't really be a big improvement in the Leafs top 6, and I'm not going to insult you by suggesting Backes or Tarasenko. Unless the Blues are open to trading one of their goalies I can't see Gunnar moving to the Blues unless it's in a package.

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12-19-2012, 04:24 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
I don't really see it working to be honest. Leafs have a lot of wingers, they wouldn't swap defensemen unless it was for someone better defensively, Berglund wouldn't really be a big improvement in the Leafs top 6, and I'm not going to insult you by suggesting Backes or Tarasenko. Unless the Blues are open to trading one of their goalies I can't see Gunnar moving to the Blues unless it's in a package.
As a Leafs fan I'd do Berglund for Gunnarson in a nano second. Berglund would be a significant upgrade over Bozak or Connolly.

Too bad St. Louis would never consider that deal.

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12-19-2012, 04:35 PM
  #112
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As a Leafs fan I'd do Berglund for Gunnarson in a nano second. Berglund would be a significant upgrade over Bozak or Connolly.

Too bad St. Louis would never consider that deal.
Well then I'm glad you aren't the Leafs GM.

I'd rather have Bozak-Grabo as the Leafs top 6 centers and a Gunnar-Phaneuf top pairing than Berglund-Grabo and... Whoever else we could put on a top pairing with Phaneuf. Bozak outscored Berglund by 9 points in 9 less games... Not saying Bozak is necessraily better but Berglund definitely is not a significant upgrade. Not enough to warrant trading one of our top pairing defenders and really our only defensive defensemen on the team (other than Komi ).

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Old
12-19-2012, 05:03 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
Well then I'm glad you aren't the Leafs GM.

I'd rather have Bozak-Grabo as the Leafs top 6 centers and a Gunnar-Phaneuf top pairing than Berglund-Grabo and... Whoever else we could put on a top pairing with Phaneuf. Bozak outscored Berglund by 9 points in 9 less games... Not saying Bozak is necessraily better but Berglund definitely is not a significant upgrade. Not enough to warrant trading one of our top pairing defenders and really our only defensive defensemen on the team (other than Komi ).
Beglund also played on a team that scored less and didn't have Kessel and Lupul as his wingers.

Beglund is a body body center who is very good defensively who can play in either a top 6 offensive role or be an elite 3rd liner. This team lacks size up the middle so badly it's not even funny. The only internal candidate we have that could be a 2nd line center or elite 3rd line center is Colborne.

Meanwhile to replace Gunnarson we've got Ranger (pending him signing here), Percy, Finn and Blacker as all realistic candidates to replace him.

Bozak, Grabo and Beglund would all be able to average 17 or 18 minutes a night on this team. The 4th line center McClement would still average 12-14 minutes.

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12-19-2012, 05:14 PM
  #114
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You're really slotting those defensive prospects on the Leafs top pairing?

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12-19-2012, 05:19 PM
  #115
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ok, fair enough. to be honest, I also thought about Stew for Gunnar, even if other Blues fans will hate me for that

but a question about your scenario:
didn't Burke say he wants JVR back at center? in this case I guess you'd easily find a spot for Stewart

and as a Blues fan I can tell you
1) you can't have enough depth and
2)its pretty tough to get a good top6 C these days, we also want to convert Steen back to center because of that
Yes, but if he doesn't work out at C and we have Stewart in the team that just pushes Kadri and frattin further down the depth charts. Tbh the only deal I'd consider would be berglund but I can't imagine that being very feasible.

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Old
12-19-2012, 06:20 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
You're really slotting those defensive prospects on the Leafs top pairing?
Down the road. Yes, they're all candidates.

Gardiner LD
Liles LD

That means we need one more 20-25 minute capable Dman on the left side with Ranger, Reilly and Finn all left Ds.

Phaneuf also shots left but plays on the right side. If Carlyle moves him over it could create a further loggam.

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12-19-2012, 06:38 PM
  #117
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What about Gunnar for Bolland? I know Bolland is a 3C, but I think he'd be absolute magic between Kessel and Lupul.

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12-19-2012, 07:02 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by frostyflo View Post
I already asked in another Gunner thread but didn't get an answer, so I'll try again:
What would you think the Blues have to give up for him?
Realistically? One of David Backes, Patrick Berglund or TJ Oshie, and the latter 2 would require a bigger deal to be constructed. Yes -- It's that unlikely he's going to be traded.

He's the only player at one of our weakest positions, and realistically nobody in our system that's even remotely close to replacing him. Plus, there's really not a great fit with St. Louis to begin with, they're loaded with depth up front and puckmoving defencemen, and so are we.

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I actually like the Liles contract as Dmen of his low impact style can have success into their mid 30s, his contract isn't that long by the crazy contracts that have been getting handed out in recent seasons and considering what other UFA Dmen have signed for his cap hit isn't bad. Replacing Kaberle with Liles who moved the puck quickly and shot on the powerplay is the # 1 reason our PP was so much better last season.

I'm not worried about having Phaneuf, Liles and Gardiner all on the same team for the next season or two.

Phaneuf is a workhorse Dman who plays in every situation and that won't change. He does get caught wandering in the defensive zone at times but he is our clear # 1 dman.

I don't see Gardiner as just an offensive dman and I don't think the Leafs do either. He played a lot on the penalty kill last season. The offensive/transition game will always be his strength but he will continue to grow into an all situation dman. Because of how effortlessly he skates I believe he'll be a 25 minute a night workhorse soon enough.

Having said all the above I'm expecting Liles to get traded in the last season or two of his contract after Rielly is in his 2nd or 3rd season and he needs PP time (along with Phaneuf/Gardiner).

Everybody is worried about our D group but defensively I believe the forwards are actually a bigger issue as they're terrible at supporting the D group or maintaining time in the offensive zone. JVR should help with this though. And the goaltending has been awful.
QFT.

The puckmoving side of our defensive core is just fine. Liles will have 3 years remaining after the end of an abbreviated season if there is one at all, and Rielly will be just working his way into the lineup hopefully. If both Gardiner/Rielly pan out as the Leafs hope, Liles is an easy move and those 2 certainly play the type of game to replace him. The much bigger concern is guys like Gunnarsson, where it's basically him and Komisarek as stay-at-home guys, and Komi probably belongs on the bottom pair at this point. Sure, we've got Holzer who might be a bottom pair NHL guy, but beyond that it's much more "long shot" prospects. The last thing we can afford to do is lose our best stay-at-home-guy.


Last edited by seanlinden: 12-19-2012 at 07:11 PM.
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Old
12-19-2012, 09:21 PM
  #119
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What about Gunnar for Bolland? I know Bolland is a 3C, but I think he'd be absolute magic between Kessel and Lupul.
Then why don't Chicago use him as their elusive 2nd line centre?

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12-19-2012, 09:26 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by frostyflo View Post
I already asked in another Gunner thread but didn't get an answer, so I'll try again:
What would you think the Blues have to give up for him?
Since I know Backes, Oshie, Peitrangelo, and Halak are untouchables.

I would want either one of Berglund or Steen . and ff-course we would need to package something along with Gunnar to get any one of those guys.

Roman Polak would also work in a one-on-one swap.

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12-19-2012, 11:23 PM
  #121
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I'd be pumped to get Clutterbuck for Gunnar.


Clutterbuck is a 30 pt grinder, 25 yrs old, he's small but intimidating.

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Old
12-20-2012, 11:27 AM
  #122
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Considering team chemistry....

Leddy would be paired with one of hjalmarsson or Gunnarsson therefore he'd compete for #3
Gunnarsson is on par with meszaros so I'd have him 3/4
Would you want an edler - Garrison pairing? I wouldn't and one would be paired with Gunnarsson
I don't really like Stuart and prefer Gunnarsson to him but again an argument can be made for either
Why wouldn't you want an Edler-Garrison pairing? You do understand that both players are better offensively and defensively in comparison to Gunnarsson right?

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12-20-2012, 12:21 PM
  #123
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He's worth more to us than he his to other teams. He's on our top pairing, and is really the only dman we have who works well with Phaneuf. Gardiner and Liles are both poor partners with Phaneuf, all of Phaneuf/Gardiner/Liles ideally need to play with someone who can cover for their mistakes, not another risk taker. Franson and Komi are both RD, like Phaneuf, so not great partners either (Phaneuf shoots left, but plays best on the right side regardless). I don't think Gunnarsson has a tonne of value, but he plays a key role for us at the moment, so why trade him?

I think the Leafs will look to trade dmen in the future, as guys like Rielly, Blacker, Finn, Percy, etc. mature and push for NHL spots. At the moment, though, I don't see us moving any dmen, if there's a season this year then I see us rolling a top 6 dmen of Phaneuf, Gunnarsson, Gardiner, Franson, Liles and Komi.

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12-20-2012, 12:46 PM
  #124
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He's worth more to us than he his to other teams. He's on our top pairing, and is really the only dman we have who works well with Phaneuf. Gardiner and Liles are both poor partners with Phaneuf, all of Phaneuf/Gardiner/Liles ideally need to play with someone who can cover for their mistakes, not another risk taker. Franson and Komi are both RD, like Phaneuf, so not great partners either (Phaneuf shoots left, but plays best on the right side regardless). I don't think Gunnarsson has a tonne of value, but he plays a key role for us at the moment, so why trade him?

I think the Leafs will look to trade dmen in the future, as guys like Rielly, Blacker, Finn, Percy, etc. mature and push for NHL spots. At the moment, though, I don't see us moving any dmen, if there's a season this year then I see us rolling a top 6 dmen of Phaneuf, Gunnarsson, Gardiner, Franson, Liles and Komi.
Great post.

I could see Gardiner developing into a great partner for Phaneuf with experience but I wouldn't expect that for a couple more seasons.

Ranger whose a LD could be the wild card that makes Gunnarson more expendable. But a wait and see approach will have to be taken on that.

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12-20-2012, 04:07 PM
  #125
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Why wouldn't you want an Edler-Garrison pairing? You do understand that both players are better offensively and defensively in comparison to Gunnarsson right?
Offensively easily, defensively not even close....

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