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Why do pitchers get credited with wins?

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Old
12-19-2012, 06:53 PM
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Epictetus
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Why do pitchers get credited with wins?

I was just thinking about this, and I don't think I can conceive of a logical reason. I mean, would it make a difference if a pitcher was not credited with a win and instead the team is recognized as getting the win (as they already are)?

I mean I suppose it is a stat, but I think it's almost universally agreed upon that wins are not a predictive measure of a pitcher's individual performance, so the stat fails on that basis. Perhaps the same can be said of goaltenders in hockey.

I don't see QB's get assigned wins in football, or goaltenders in soccer and perhaps this can just as easily be done if you want to add a stat.

Is there a historical reason?

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Old
12-19-2012, 07:29 PM
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Is there a historical reason?
Yes.

Just something they've always done.

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Old
12-19-2012, 08:32 PM
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"Goaltenders" in soccer also don't get the GAA stat...

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12-19-2012, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Grillinnap View Post
"Goaltenders" in soccer also don't get the GAA stat...
that is because they don't need it as that would mean someone actually scored

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Old
12-19-2012, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epictetus View Post
I don't see QB's get assigned wins in football


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_wi...arterback_(NFL)

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Old
12-19-2012, 10:28 PM
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Winz Young disagrees with that statement

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Old
12-20-2012, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epictetus View Post
I was just thinking about this, and I don't think I can conceive of a logical reason. I mean, would it make a difference if a pitcher was not credited with a win and instead the team is recognized as getting the win (as they already are)?

I mean I suppose it is a stat, but I think it's almost universally agreed upon that wins are not a predictive measure of a pitcher's individual performance, so the stat fails on that basis. Perhaps the same can be said of goaltenders in hockey.

I don't see QB's get assigned wins in football, or goaltenders in soccer and perhaps this can just as easily be done if you want to add a stat.

Is there a historical reason?
Tell that to award voters who seem to only give Cy Youngs to the guy with the most wins 95% of the time.

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Old
12-20-2012, 04:32 PM
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robert terwilliger
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Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone View Post
Tell that to award voters who seem to only give Cy Youngs to the guy with the most wins 95% of the time.
so most of the people who vote on awards are dinosaurs?


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Old
12-20-2012, 04:36 PM
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Wins are actually a halfway decent measuring tool for guys who play on the same team. Flawed, yes, but not totally useless as they are when comparing guys not on the same team.

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Old
12-20-2012, 05:14 PM
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Wins are actually a halfway decent measuring tool for guys who play on the same team. Flawed, yes, but not totally useless as they are when comparing guys not on the same team.
If you had a larger sample, yeah. Problem is ~30 starts a piece means there can be a ton of variance in offensive and bullpen support.

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12-20-2012, 05:24 PM
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If you had a larger sample, yeah. Problem is ~30 starts a piece means there can be a ton of variance in offensive and bullpen support.
Yeah all in all it's still not very good.

It's just something you can point to when guys have been on the same team for a few years, but there's better and more consistent stats regardless.

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Old
12-20-2012, 05:30 PM
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it's not even worth that.

some pitchers get more run support than others. no real reason behind it, it just happens.

does that mean that pitcher a is better than pitcher b? if pitcher a has 15 wins and pitcher b has 11? not really.

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Old
12-20-2012, 07:31 PM
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Agree on run support. Lance Lynn had the best run support in baseball last season. Kyle Lohse? 46th best.

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Old
12-21-2012, 12:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert terwilliger View Post
it's not even worth that.

some pitchers get more run support than others. no real reason behind it, it just happens.

does that mean that pitcher a is better than pitcher b? if pitcher a has 15 wins and pitcher b has 11? not really.
I had a (brief) argument with someone (excuse the exaggerations but it was to make a point) who said he'd take a 20 win Pitcher with like a 8.00 ERA over a 20 loss Pitcher with an ERA <2.00.

I just and

It was more worthy than when someone else told me steroids turn a ground out to 2B into a double in the gap.


Moral of the story? I needed to find smarter people to talk baseball with.

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Old
12-21-2012, 01:09 AM
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Originally Posted by robert terwilliger View Post
it's not even worth that.

some pitchers get more run support than others. no real reason behind it, it just happens.

does that mean that pitcher a is better than pitcher b? if pitcher a has 15 wins and pitcher b has 11? not really.
Just like goaltenders are credited for a win.

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Old
12-21-2012, 06:59 AM
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Because they do

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Old
12-21-2012, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robert terwilliger View Post
it's not even worth that.

some pitchers get more run support than others. no real reason behind it, it just happens.

does that mean that pitcher a is better than pitcher b? if pitcher a has 15 wins and pitcher b has 11? not really.
Cliff Lee last year. The amount of Phillies "fans" that thought he was terrible because of his W-L didn't seem to notice his stats were somewhat close to Cole Hamels, who they all loved last year.

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Old
12-21-2012, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone View Post
Cliff Lee last year. The amount of Phillies "fans" that thought he was terrible because of his W-L didn't seem to notice his stats were somewhat close to Cole Hamels, who they all loved last year.
Oh that reminds me...



Favorite image ever

But I agree with your post.

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Old
01-08-2013, 12:53 PM
  #19
JDinkalage Morgoone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
Oh that reminds me...



Favorite image ever

But I agree with your post.
I remember when I saw that; I laughed, then I cried because the Phillies were bad.

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