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Exhibition • Dec. 20 • Finland 3, Canada 2

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Old
12-20-2012, 05:20 PM
  #676
james30
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Didn't watch the game: who was on d for the only 5 on 5 goal against (the game winner for Finland)? The other two goals seemed to be 5 on 3.

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12-20-2012, 05:21 PM
  #677
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Originally Posted by james30 View Post
Didn't watch the game: who was on d for the only 5 on 5 goal against (the game winner for Finland)? The other two goals seemed to be 5 on 3.
Murphy and Wotherspoon

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12-20-2012, 05:33 PM
  #678
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Originally Posted by Faidh ar Rud Eigin View Post
They mean the same thing in this context.

I'm not sure how I respond to the second. According to you I said something. Mind finding a quote that proves I said that? I think that's how I've got to deal with a strawman now, because pointing it out doesn't stop people from doing it.

I don't see your point. Does being player of the game on a losing team make his performance less impressive? You can have a strong performance (Murphy did) and lose, doesn't make it not a strong performance.

And it really doesn't matter what lines TSN gave, there is no lineup card like in baseball where you can check where a player is going to play. If he started out as the 7th defensemen he became a top 6 defensemen as soon as the game started. Murphy was getting more icetime from the get go.
I guess you're right, they prolly do mean the same thing. It's ok if you doubt my credibility. To me, you lost your credibility awhile ago with your extreme bias towards Murphy. It's really hard to distinguish how good Murphy is with the way you are building him up.

You don't specifically mention anything, he did wrong, but saying he was the best defender offensively and defensively especially when comparing him to Reinhart who got a goal and basically never really made any mistakes and was strong defensively says something about how you view Murphy's play.

Yes, being the best player of a losing team is less impressive because it just shows, your performance wasn't strong enough to change the tide of the game, especially when you won't even be shown on the scoresheet.

Btw http://bigdata.lahtis-enterprises.co...c41610c87f5b98

This is a finnish site so someone must have given them a lineup sheet. Do you think it was TSN?

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12-20-2012, 05:33 PM
  #679
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Thanks! Just looked it up! Saw that we only generated 26 shots to their 42 (or whatever). Terrible face-off percentage from our top two centres ( 36 and 42 % - or whatever). Maybe Scheifle would be the better centre?!

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12-20-2012, 05:38 PM
  #680
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Originally Posted by james30 View Post
Thanks! Just looked it up! Saw that we only generated 26 shots to their 42 (or whatever). Terrible face-off percentage from our top two centres ( 36 and 42 % - or whatever). Maybe Scheifle would be the better centre?!
Didn't RNH have a sub-40% face-off percentage in the NHL? If that holds true in this tournament, that's going to make things tough for Canada.

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12-20-2012, 05:44 PM
  #681
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
Didn't RNH have a sub-40% face-off percentage in the NHL? If that holds true in this tournament, that's going to make things tough for Canada.
Pretty sure that if he had a 40% faceoff percentage in the NHL in would be substantially better against junior players.
And this....
http://www.edmontonsun.com/2012/10/2...er-on-the-draw

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12-20-2012, 05:51 PM
  #682
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Originally Posted by TowMater14 View Post
Pretty sure that if he had a 40% faceoff percentage in the NHL in would be substantially better against junior players.
And this....
http://www.edmontonsun.com/2012/10/2...er-on-the-draw
(sigh) Apparently you missed the point, trying to champion your boy. If face-offs are a weak part in his game, that's something that can be exploited(especially if he's not the only one who struggles to win them).


Last edited by Sojourn: 12-20-2012 at 06:01 PM.
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12-20-2012, 06:06 PM
  #683
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
(sigh) Apparently you missed the point, trying to champion your boy. If face-offs are a weak part in his game, that's something that can be exploited(especially if he's not the only one who struggles to win them).
Overrated stat just like most in hockey. Typical of the baseballization of the game (is there such a word ?)

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12-20-2012, 06:08 PM
  #684
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Canada's goal-tending in WJC is getting worse....

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Old
12-20-2012, 06:10 PM
  #685
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Originally Posted by canuck2010 View Post
Overrated stat just like most in hockey. Typical of the baseballization of the game (is there such a word ?)
Really? I'd say the opposite. Winning face-offs leads to puck possession. It means your PP has the puck, or your penalty kill can clear it. At even strength, it can be the difference between having to spend time getting the puck back, or having the opposing team try to do the same.

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12-20-2012, 06:12 PM
  #686
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Originally Posted by Redden View Post
I definitely did not like Murphy's game today, I thought he was probably our worst defensemen. There is lots of potential there though once he establishes some chemistry with the rest of the team.He seemed really our of sync as all of his bad plays today seemed to be him just hanging on and hanging on to the puck and then either turning it over or dumping it in. Once he gets more comfortable I see him being better able to distribute the puck and not have to hang onto it so much.
Murphy is just a guy with good flashy
skills who looks like he could be more useful but he'd just a guy with a ten cent brain who doesn't know how to play in a team system. He's the equivent of the annoying puck hog in pickup.

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12-20-2012, 06:12 PM
  #687
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Originally Posted by canuck2010 View Post
Overrated stat just like most in hockey. Typical of the baseballization of the game (is there such a word ?)
How important do you think people rate faceoff-ability? Everything is relative, but faceoffs are still an important part of the game. If you can put out a guy that gives your team initial possession 60% of the time or who can give your team possession in crucial situations most of the time, it's definitely important.

Who's Canada's go-to faceoff guy this year, if there is one?

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12-20-2012, 06:15 PM
  #688
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
Really? I'd say the opposite. Winning face-offs leads to puck possession. It means your PP has the puck, or your penalty kill can clear it. At even strength, it can be the difference between having to spend time getting the puck back, or having the opposing team try to do the same.
Faceoffs are harder in the NHL. I forgot who, but there was a player (fairly new to NHL) who was interviewed. He said his FO dropped 10-15% in the NHL compared to junior.

I remember the player said the difficulty rises because the men are stronger and faster with their sticks than the ones in juniors.

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12-20-2012, 06:20 PM
  #689
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Originally Posted by canuck2010 View Post
Overrated stat just like most in hockey. Typical of the baseballization of the game (is there such a word ?)
A won faceoff win or loss can equal a goal or a goal against quite quick.

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Old
12-20-2012, 06:24 PM
  #690
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Face off wins and puck possession off the draw aren't really the same thing.

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Old
12-20-2012, 06:26 PM
  #691
Faidh ar Rud Eigin
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Originally Posted by Atomos2 View Post
I guess you're right, they prolly do mean the same thing. It's ok if you doubt my credibility. To me, you lost your credibility awhile ago with your extreme bias towards Murphy. It's really hard to distinguish how good Murphy is with the way you are building him up.

You don't specifically mention anything, he did wrong, but saying he was the best defender offensively and defensively especially when comparing him to Reinhart who got a goal and basically never really made any mistakes and was strong defensively says something about how you view Murphy's play.

Yes, being the best player of a losing team is less impressive because it just shows, your performance wasn't strong enough to change the tide of the game, especially when you won't even be shown on the scoresheet.

Btw http://bigdata.lahtis-enterprises.co...c41610c87f5b98

This is a finnish site so someone must have given them a lineup sheet. Do you think it was TSN?
My low value on your opinion derives from your continual usage of arguements that make it look like you didn't watch the game. Your low value of me derives from nothing more than the fact you don't agree with me it seems.

I didn't mention anything he did wrong (Because that's not what I was talking about) therefore you jumped to the absurd conclusion I thought he had a perfect game. Reinhart was strong defensively, but so was Murphy. Reinhart scored a goal, but overall his offensive game was lacking. Murphy may not have been on his game there, but compared to the other defensemen on the team? The best.

Being the best player on a losing team takes nothing away from that player. You only have to look at guys like Jordan Eberle. The best player on a losing team, does that make his performance any worse? It make not make that player feel better, but it takes absolutely nothing away from his performance. If Canada won this game 3-2 and the guy who scored the 3rd goal didn't have a strong game, what would you have to complain about? That even though they won nobody was good so it makes Murphy's performance not as impressive?

And again, what do you not understand about how there's no lineup card in hockey? Every player on the team except Paterson and Huberdeau were dressed, listing where the players will play and what role is a guess. TSN and this Finnish site gussed Murphy would be the 7th defensemen. They were wrong. You posting lineups doesn't prove anything, watching the game and seeing that Murphy was clearly playing more (And right from the get go) than Wotherspoon is proof.


Last edited by Faidh ar Rud Eigin: 12-20-2012 at 06:31 PM.
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Old
12-20-2012, 06:29 PM
  #692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canuck2010 View Post
Face off wins and puck possession off the draw aren't really the same thing.
You're twisting and turning things but it doesn't change anything really.

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12-20-2012, 06:30 PM
  #693
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Originally Posted by canuck2010 View Post
Face off wins and puck possession off the draw aren't really the same thing.
The results are often the same.

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12-20-2012, 06:31 PM
  #694
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Originally Posted by jigsaw99 View Post
Canada's goal-tending in WJC is getting worse....
Quite possible, but hard to believe it could get any worse. That said, Subban has been just awful. Pathetic display between the pipes today.

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12-20-2012, 06:35 PM
  #695
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Subban looked pretty bad today but you gotta cut the kid some slack, it's not an easy adjustment goaltending on international ice. A lot of different looks and angles. Good thing there's these pre-tourney games so they can get used to the rink.

Some of those penalties were just ridiculous though. Yikes

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12-20-2012, 06:37 PM
  #696
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Originally Posted by SephF View Post
Subban looked pretty bad today but you gotta cut the kid some slack, it's not an easy adjustment goaltending on international ice. A lot of different looks and angles. Good thing there's these pre-tourney games so they can get used to the rink.

Some of those penalties were just ridiculous though. Yikes
Invalid. Subban plays on international ice in Belleville. Looks like he'll just be another Allen/Visentin/Roy/Wedgewood.


Last edited by TonsofPuppies*: 12-20-2012 at 06:42 PM.
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12-20-2012, 06:52 PM
  #697
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Subban looked pretty bad today but you gotta cut the kid some slack, it's not an easy adjustment goaltending on international ice. A lot of different looks and angles. Good thing there's these pre-tourney games so they can get used to the rink.

Some of those penalties were just ridiculous though. Yikes
His team's home rink is apparently close to international size, or so that has been posted here several times.

However, the whole team is adjusting to playing their first meaningful game in weeks after flying across the globe. They are jet-lagged and will be better. I'm not sure how you can blame Subban for 2 five on three goals against. Sure he'd like the shot from the side back, but this is pre-tournament. This is when you shake the rust off. People are coming down pretty hard on him for essentially two showings. A selection camp game and and the team's first exhibition game. Nobody on the team is firing on all cylinders yet. I wish people would let up a little on everyone on the team and save the scything criticism for when the tournament starts. Give them an opportunity to become a team.

And really, I think any goalie that plays for Canada is going to be ridiculously scrutinized. The Canadian ego when it comes to goaltending in the past decade is fragile. The glut of over sensationalized goalies in the 90's doesn't help. We heard for years that Quebec was a farm for elite goaltenders and saw them on the U20 roster year after year. Here is a list of goalies that were named the best in the tournament:

1982 Mike Moffat
1985 Craig Billington
1988 Jimmy Waite
1990 Stephane Fiset
1993 Manny Legace
1994 Jamie Storr
1996 Jose Theodore
1997 Marc Denis
1999 Roberto Luongo
2003 Marc-Andre Fleury
2007 Carey Price
2008 Steve Mason

Of all those goalies, not many actually went on to NHL success. The only true stars in that entire bunch are Luongo, Fleury and Price. I'm not saying future success is a barometer, but some of these guys just got hot at the right time. Also, other nations were not developing great goaltenders well back then. Now they are. Has Canada actually stopped or have other nations just caught up. You would think it would be the easiest position to improve. You only need one great goalie on your team to succeed.

Okay...end of rant.

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12-20-2012, 07:01 PM
  #698
Karsa Orlong
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Jordan Eberle ‏@ebs_14
Hey @RNH_93 only one assist today? Stop playing like a girl. What are u some kind of girl or something?

LOL, i hope Ebs keeps this up all tourney.

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12-20-2012, 07:06 PM
  #699
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Originally Posted by Karsa Orlong View Post
Jordan Eberle ‏@ebs_14
Hey @RNH_93 only one assist today? Stop playing like a girl. What are u some kind of girl or something?

LOL, i hope Ebs keeps this up all tourney.
I wonder when the feminists are going to show up.

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12-20-2012, 07:10 PM
  #700
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Originally Posted by Karsa Orlong View Post
Jordan Eberle ‏@ebs_14
Hey @RNH_93 only one assist today? Stop playing like a girl. What are u some kind of girl or something?

LOL, i hope Ebs keeps this up all tourney.

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