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NHL Lockout Discusion XXXIII: It's the same old song. **MOD WARNING POST 274

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Old
12-20-2012, 09:07 PM
  #601
Ragamuffin Gunner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
Nothing to be gained for the owners? What about the millions of dollars they will lose. These astute businessmen are going to cancel the season and lose millions over contracting rights? I'm not buying it.
It's a simple cost/benefit analysis that any freshman in BUS 101 can understand.

The long term benefit of getting a CBA that works outweighs the short term cost of revenues lost this year.

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12-20-2012, 09:13 PM
  #602
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
I don't know any businessman who will happily lose millions, whether they are billionaires or mere millionaires.
Do you not see the irony in this post?

The who lockout is because the current system is causing about half of these billionaires to lose millions of dollars a year ans they're trying to fix the system. If all teams and owners were profitable you would have a point.

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Old
12-20-2012, 09:23 PM
  #603
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How do you guys think the NHL will alter their logo after this lockout?

Green would seem to make the most sense.

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Old
12-20-2012, 09:28 PM
  #604
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Trade some make whole in favour of 8 year contracts.

Trade CBA term from 8 to 10 and in return for keeping ELC, UFA and arbitration status quo.

Give up the capped escrow and artificial cap ceiling in favour of a two year transition period and one amnesty buyout per team in each of those two years (can't be accumulated and can't be used beyond the 2nd year). In order to buy out a player, the player can only have a maximum cap hit of x amount and can only have x amount of years remaining on the contract. That limits the amount of money and term that the owners will be paying outside of the system. For example, a max cap hit of 4.5M and can't have more than 2-3 years remaining on their contract. That would leave an owner paying up to 27M outside of the system (that's using a 3 year maximum term remaining on contract). An extra 27M over 3 years is not that big of a deal to appease the transition issues the PA has.

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Old
12-20-2012, 09:28 PM
  #605
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Greed ruins all that is good in this land.

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Old
12-20-2012, 09:39 PM
  #606
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
No, I can't tell you that. Both sides have lost more than they would gain by simply agreeing to something in the middle and acting reasonably. It's baffling and I agree that it is exactly why we are where we are at. Too many lines in the sand on both sides. It's the way Fehr and Bettman have always acted in the past so I can't say I'm shocked. More disappointed in the lack of leadership on both sides, TBH.
To add though. By your logic, the PA should always just cave on all issues because financially the owners can win. I can see that ogic but I just don't agree that all of the onus is on them.
Actually, by my logic, and by most reasonable people's logic, the PA should do a cost benefit analysis and figure out what they can reasonably expect to gain by prolonging this lockout, and how long they can do it for. There reaches a certain point, a point we are well past, where you lose so much money that there is literally no way you can come out ahead.

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12-20-2012, 09:39 PM
  #607
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Sorry if this has been answered but I thought the players finished voting today on the DoI. But then I keep reading about Fehr wants to continue to negotiate. Does this mean the players weren't supportive?

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Old
12-20-2012, 09:42 PM
  #608
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chelios View Post
Actually, by my logic, and by most reasonable people's logic, the PA should do a cost benefit analysis and figure out what they can reasonably expect to gain by prolonging this lockout, and how long they can do it for. There reaches a certain point, a point we are well past, where you lose so much money that there is literally no way you can come out ahead.
Actually, he was right.

By your logic, the NHLPA should take whatever the NHL puts in front of them before a game is lost --- until salaries average KHL levels.

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Old
12-20-2012, 09:43 PM
  #609
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Anyone else just over it at this point?

I just really don't even care. The NHL is a joke of a league now. They made the sport look bad.

This sucks.

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Old
12-20-2012, 09:43 PM
  #610
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Old
12-20-2012, 09:44 PM
  #611
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Originally Posted by Legionnaire11 View Post
He probably has one, but is it logical? This is the same guys who fought AGAINST steroid testing.
His reasons for fighting steroid testing are legit.

I don't take jobs that require blood testing. Who the hell is your boss to demand access to your blood? They aren't the cops. They aren't the courts.

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12-20-2012, 09:45 PM
  #612
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepty View Post
Bill Daly's take on the 50-50

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/12/20...ith-qmi-agency

QMI: I get the sense you feel that while they say they are at 50-50, you don't feel they are at 50-50?

DALY: "That's been an issue from the start. They want to characterize their position is 50-50, when in reality with the transition payments, add to that compliance buyouts, a cap on escrow, they're a long way away from 50-50. I'm not suggesting that's the only issue. The phenomena you just pointed out really does shape our current position: Maybe there is some flexibility around the issues here, but let us know what it is you're prepared to do. If you have a proposal, make the proposal. If it's something we can deal with, we'll deal with it. If it's not, then we'll go back and start re-trading issues."
Doesn't sound like a refusal to negotiate to me.

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Old
12-20-2012, 09:46 PM
  #613
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So I've compiled the amount of money the strike has saved me

Basic Cable 40$ a month since September=160 til now
NHL center Ice=200$
At least 4 tickets at a 100$ a pop=400$
inc 4 parking spots at 15 each=60$
overpriced food=25 a night=100$

That's almost a thousand dollars. Thank you NHL.

Now go **** yourself

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Old
12-20-2012, 09:46 PM
  #614
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PumpkinBomb View Post
Sorry if this has been answered but I thought the players finished voting today on the DoI. But then I keep reading about Fehr wants to continue to negotiate. Does this mean the players weren't supportive?
All the voting does is give the power to the executive board to dissolve the union. They have that power up until January 2nd so they don't have to disclaim interest until then. They could still negotiate.

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Old
12-20-2012, 09:54 PM
  #615
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http://thinkprogress.org/economy/201...rts/?mobile=nc
Crime-Ridden Oakland Lays Off 200 Police Officers While Giving $17 Million To Pro Sports Teams

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Old
12-20-2012, 10:01 PM
  #616
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
Logically you are right. But I can tell you that I have dealt with many wealthy people before and I don't know any of them that view millions as the equivalent of toonies. In the end most of them make decisions based on sound business, even if they sometimes play hardball to get there. I think that what you are saying is that it may make good business sense to cancel the season over contracting issues. I really can't see that TBH.
Totally agreed; the idea that because owners are rich a million dollars is suddenly nothing to them is ridiculous. Even if it doesn't mean much to the owner personally, it's still a million dollars, and there's still an opportunity cost to spending it. I don't know too many rich people who throw money around indiscriminately just because they don't personally need it. Just like how I won't pay $5 at the airport for a candy bar even though I can afford it, since I know it would be $1 at a normal store.

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12-20-2012, 10:05 PM
  #617
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
It's 50/50 in terms of the split but when you include the Make Whole it becomes 57%. At least that's what Mirtle told me.
And with the cap that won't go down it will always be 57%. It will be more if revenues ever decline.

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Old
12-20-2012, 10:15 PM
  #618
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
His reasons for fighting steroid testing are legit.

I don't take jobs that require blood testing. Who the hell is your boss to demand access to your blood? They aren't the cops. They aren't the courts.
You have the option to take the terms of employment as they're offered to you - if you have a principle problem adhering to a D&A policy then you choose to work somewhere that that will not affect you.

The same choice is available to players. If the league has a D&A policy the players can either choose to adhere to it or find somewhere else to play for millions.

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Old
12-20-2012, 10:17 PM
  #619
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/201...rts/?mobile=nc
Crime-Ridden Oakland Lays Off 200 Police Officers While Giving $17 Million To Pro Sports Teams
Not excusing the ****** things that cities do (with or without Pro Sports Teams and their greedy athletes), but a successful Pro Sports Team can provide incentive to completely revitalize a downtown area.

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Old
12-20-2012, 10:19 PM
  #620
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
Someone should add up the games that have been lost under Bettman's watch. He's the Wayne Gretzky of lost games. I can fully understand criticism of Fehr and the PA. I really don't understand all of the support and in some cases, admiration, for Bettman.
And we should also add up the games lost under Fehr. Dude ain't exactly a saint when it comes to lockouts either.

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Old
12-20-2012, 10:25 PM
  #621
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
His reasons for fighting steroid testing are legit.

I don't take jobs that require blood testing.
Who the hell is your boss to demand access to your blood? They aren't the cops. They aren't the courts.
Comparing yourself to an NHL player (at least in the sense of blood-testing in relation to your job and your job duties) is a bit much.

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Old
12-20-2012, 10:33 PM
  #622
NJDevs26
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
I'm starting to question the PA's game of chicken here. We all know how this ends if the season is lost. They'll accept a deal that would have gotten them on the ice back in November in the first place.

The longer this goes on, I just throw my hands in the air and cannot understand it. The kicking and screaming going on to get a little more from the owners doesn't add up when you run rough numbers of what they lost. And the same does not apply for the owners as they can figure a way through taxes to make sure it's not a loss.

It just completely and utterly boggles my mind why the players are playing this game of chicken.
'If' they settle at the last minute I think the endgame was just to make a lockout as messy and inconvenient for the owners as possible so they'll be reluctant to do it again. Hence all of Fehr's games about switching the goalposts, being late, etc etc.

If they don't settle clearly the endgame is to win in court, a la MLB and perhaps blow up the system.

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Old
12-20-2012, 10:35 PM
  #623
workedforme
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
His reasons for fighting steroid testing are legit.

I don't take jobs that require blood testing. Who the hell is your boss to demand access to your blood? They aren't the cops. They aren't the courts.
So now we know the PA doesn't drug test before hiring people to post on hf all day and night.

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Old
12-20-2012, 10:37 PM
  #624
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
His reasons for fighting steroid testing are legit.

I don't take jobs that require blood testing. Who the hell is your boss to demand access to your blood? They aren't the cops. They aren't the courts.
Wow seriously? Does your pay depend on how well you physically outperform your coworkers?

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Old
12-20-2012, 10:41 PM
  #625
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Hell, I prefer jobs that test for drugs via blood or urine tests. Makes me feel like they take their employees safety more seriously.

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