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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part X: Is There Any Hope? Edition

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Old
12-20-2012, 04:27 PM
  #176
Bleed Ranger Blue
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
What's the incentive to start a 30 game season lol. Lock er up boys.
Wouldnt be 30. Would be 45-50. The '95 lockout was settled on January 11th. Its all part of the same script.

I still think there will be a season. Its just a stupid game of chicken between 2 big egos right now. They will both blink at the same time after New Years.

If they let a whole season go to waste over such trivial matters as contract term limits, etc, well, theres just no excuse for that.

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12-20-2012, 04:29 PM
  #177
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They aren't doing anything less than 40. The least you will see is 48. The precedent is there from 95 and Bettman's on record saying he wouldn't go through with anything less as he believes there's no integrity in the season at that point. The entire schedule has to be redone if there's an agreement, doesn't matter how many games have been cancelled to this point.
Integrity? Bettman? Owners? Nhlpa? NHL in general? Integrity?

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12-20-2012, 04:46 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Wouldnt be 30. Would be 45-50. The '95 lockout was settled on January 11th. Its all part of the same script.

I still think there will be a season. Its just a stupid game of chicken between 2 big egos right now. They will both blink at the same time after New Years.

If they let a whole season go to waste over such trivial matters as contract term limits, etc, well, theres just no excuse for that.

They could potentially have games long before Jan 14. If they settle it before Christmas, they can start around Jan 1. If they settle around the New Year, then they can start around Jan. 8.

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12-20-2012, 05:06 PM
  #179
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My birthday is January 14th. Hopefully my present will be that it's the last day of the lockout. One can hope

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12-20-2012, 05:11 PM
  #180
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The lockout threads on the main boards are a bunch of gong shows

Its not 50/50. Like its their money. Its the PAs fault. Its the NHLs fault. Cap exemptions. Cap escrow.

My favorite scene from Menace II Society. The car scene.

A-Wax

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Man, both of y'all shut the **** up. Both of y'all acting like some mother****ing *****es.
Shut up and make a deal.

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12-20-2012, 05:19 PM
  #181
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I'm still shocked that this is still going on.

I though for sure we'd have hockey back by Thanksgiving.

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12-20-2012, 05:23 PM
  #182
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With roughly 50% of the games cancelled (through January 14th) the players have lost almost a billion dollars in salary. Please explain how them not agreeing to the last framework (where many said they were about 200 million apart) makes any sense whatsoever.

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12-20-2012, 05:25 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
With roughly 50% of the games cancelled (through January 14th) the players have lost almost a billion dollars in salary. Please explain how them not agreeing to the last framework (where many said they were about 200 million apart) makes any sense whatsoever.
It doesnt, at all.

Fehr is now fighting for the top 10% of players in the league. Bettman is fighting for the bottom 10% of teams in the league. The entire thing is ass-backwards.

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12-20-2012, 05:25 PM
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
With roughly 50% of the games cancelled (through January 14th) the players have lost almost a billion dollars in salary. Please explain how them not agreeing to the last framework (where many said they were about 200 million apart) makes any sense whatsoever.
Sense has left the building long ago

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12-20-2012, 05:39 PM
  #185
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Makes me sick looking at RB's lockout counter, and seeing it approach 100 days.

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12-20-2012, 05:47 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
It doesnt, at all.

Fehr is now fighting for the top 10% of players in the league. Bettman is fighting for the bottom 10% of teams in the league. The entire thing is ass-backwards.
That's a really interesting point. Too bad that both of those constituencies have disproportionately large voices (apparently).

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12-20-2012, 07:10 PM
  #187
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It also doesn't make sense that the owners are losing money and won't budge off their offer either

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12-20-2012, 07:47 PM
  #188
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NHL did the right thing in cancelling up to Jan. 14th. Let's everyone know that the next thing on the chopping block is the whole season. No more make believe landmarks. Maybe this way they get back to the table over the holidays.

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12-20-2012, 07:50 PM
  #189
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So would the 15th be considered the day they would need to start playing games, or have an agreement reached?

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12-20-2012, 07:54 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by 17futurecap View Post
So would the 15th be considered the day they would need to start playing games, or have an agreement reached?
Doubt it.

Could happen later (but not much), could happen sooner (if the two sides decided to stop embarrassing themselves).

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12-20-2012, 07:56 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by 17futurecap View Post
So would the 15th be considered the day they would need to start playing games, or have an agreement reached?
I'd say the latest they can reach an agreement is about Jan 9. And even then, they probably can't start until about the 22nd.

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12-20-2012, 08:06 PM
  #192
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It also doesn't make sense that the owners are losing money and won't budge off their offer either
Yes and no. The big market teams are but the small market teams actually "makes" money during the lockout because they lose money when their teams were playing. And this is why we are where we are. The small market teams want more revenue sharing but the big market don't want to pay more than they are now so they want to take it from the players.

IMO, this situation was created by bettman through his expansion into the south and southeast. Those are the teams that are causing the financial issues in this lockout. Move some of them to Canada and the whole league would be better financially. But he's too stubborn to admit defeat.

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12-20-2012, 11:51 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by MessierIsGod View Post
Yes and no. The big market teams are but the small market teams actually "makes" money during the lockout because they lose money when their teams were playing. And this is why we are where we are. The small market teams want more revenue sharing but the big market don't want to pay more than they are now so they want to take it from the players.

IMO, this situation was created by bettman through his expansion into the south and southeast. Those are the teams that are causing the financial issues in this lockout. Move some of them to Canada and the whole league would be better financially. But he's too stubborn to admit defeat.
Huge falsehood. CBJ lost $17m in the last lockout. Just ask Doug MacLean.

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Old
12-21-2012, 12:00 AM
  #194
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Originally Posted by MessierIsGod View Post
Yes and no. The big market teams are but the small market teams actually "makes" money during the lockout because they lose money when their teams were playing. And this is why we are where we are. The small market teams want more revenue sharing but the big market don't want to pay more than they are now so they want to take it from the players.

IMO, this situation was created by bettman through his expansion into the south and southeast. Those are the teams that are causing the financial issues in this lockout. Move some of them to Canada and the whole league would be better financially. But he's too stubborn to admit defeat.
No way I'll ever believe that statement. Perhaps they lose less money during the lockout...but they still have all sorts of expenses (arena leases are quite costly) and ZERO income from TV/tickets/concessions.

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12-21-2012, 02:31 AM
  #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MessierIsGod View Post
Yes and no. The big market teams are but the small market teams actually "makes" money during the lockout because they lose money when their teams were playing. And this is why we are where we are. The small market teams want more revenue sharing but the big market don't want to pay more than they are now so they want to take it from the players.

IMO, this situation was created by bettman through his expansion into the south and southeast. Those are the teams that are causing the financial issues in this lockout. Move some of them to Canada and the whole league would be better financially. But he's too stubborn to admit defeat.
Franchise values are also plummeting for all - big or small - North, South, East and West...

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12-21-2012, 02:56 AM
  #196
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Red Eye on FNC just made fun of the NHL lockout, concluding that nobody cares. I suspect they may be right.

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Old
12-21-2012, 04:56 AM
  #197
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Bill Daly was on the radio in Edmonton yesterday with Mark Spector from Sportsnet. Daly hinted the owners were more willing to compromise on the term limits than the 10 year CBA. He said the $300M make whole is tied to the 10 year CBA.

Daly discussed the issues with the Ottawa Sun

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"In transition issues, the first issue that reared its head a couple of weeks ago was this concept of compliance buyouts. To me, compliance buyouts is just more money being paid outside the system. It doesn't count against the share. Secondly, is the cap on escrow ... That's a total non-starter. The third issue, which got fleshed out last Friday, is their view where the salary cap should be. They think the salary cap should be at $67.25 million and never fall below it. That's a very artificially high cap based on 50-50 and where revenues are going to be. It would create a high floor along with a very high escrow withhold because clubs would spend to the artificially high cap and the artificially high floor. That's a huge issue."
http://www.torontosun.com/2012/12/20...ith-qmi-agency

In the NBA,amnesty buyouts count against the players share. It doesn't count against the salary cap or the luxury tax. Count it against the players share.

Escrow. The $70.2M cap will result in high escrow. The make whole offer is higher in year 1. Flatten the cap out at $64.3M for two years instead of $70.2M and then $60M. There has to be way to make the numbers work.

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12-21-2012, 06:36 AM
  #198
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No way I'll ever believe that statement. Perhaps they lose less money during the lockout...but they still have all sorts of expenses (arena leases are quite costly) and ZERO income from TV/tickets/concessions.
That's what I meant..those small market teams lose less during the lockout.

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12-21-2012, 07:50 AM
  #199
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My favorite scene from Menace II Society. The car scene.
Just simple props for anyone that can come up with a quote from that movie. That is going to the bottom of the ocean deep, to dig up a quote.

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Old
12-21-2012, 07:54 AM
  #200
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
Please explain how them not agreeing to the last framework (where many said they were about 200 million apart) makes any sense whatsoever.
Have you checked on the decline in value of a franchise like Tampa? Further, seeing how much money has been sunk in, and not a cent made back?

The players are fighting not just for now, but for the future. They also want to break the cycle of lockouts. And they are galvanized by Bettman. Right, wrong or indifferent. If this season is canceled, as many as 5 franchises could be in trouble. And they are mostly the creations of Bettman's expansion. Explain to me how it makes sense whatsoever for the owners to continue down this path?

Point being is that neither side makes any sense at all.

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