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Edler + Schneider

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Old
12-19-2012, 10:20 AM
  #126
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Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post
A young player who looks like they will be a top line player in the near future is attractive too. Someone in the mold of Evander Kane, for example. I don't imagine he'd be available as Winnipeg have a need for 1st line talents, but someone in that class of player.
Agreed, in fact I would much rather a young, potential first liner than an aging first liner, I was trying to emphasize that a 3-4 player package does nothing seeing as though we have depth, but lack a solid top 6 player (but edler and Cory should return more than a top sixer).


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Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post
With that said, I still stand strong in my position that Edler is not available for an upgrade at forward. Without Edler, our defense is as follows:

Hamhuis-Bieksa
Garrison-Ballard
Alberts-Tanev

That isn't a Stanley Cup winning blueline. If Hamhuis, Garrison, or Bieksa got injured in the playoffs we'd essentially be in shambles. Heck, even if Ballard went down we'd be in trouble. With Edler...

Edler-Garrison
Hamhuis-Bieksa
Ballard-Tanev

That's a stable blueline. Ballard-Tanev and Hamhuis-Bieksa have proven chemistry. Having Ballard and Tanev on our bottom pairing is a treat, as either of those guys can step into our top 4 with ease. We need that, injuries WILL happen over a long playoff run.

Edler is only expendable imo if Ballard bounces back and plays like a true top 4 defender (which I've saw glimpses of last season) and Connauton progressed well enough to be trusted with Tanev on the third pairing. It's a stretch and I for one don't think trading Edler would be a good idea because of the chances of everything I listed going right.

For injuries, if Hamhuis gets hurts were screwed regardless but our depth would be bad anyways if we traded Edler (even if everything went right).

Sum up my opinion, it's very unlikely that Edler would ever be expendable and even if he was, our D core would have to be injury free to be successful. Just for the sake of discussion, if we were to trade Edler, it would be for a top line winger (or budding top line winger).

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12-19-2012, 10:33 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
I hear what you're saying, it's not like 2 years is nothing, just that it seems short compared to how many years the guys going other way are under team control.
And I get your argument too, but it's not like Winnipeg is a foreign country to Schneider or anything, he's played some of the best hockey of his career there. IMHO, someone would have to screw up royal to NOT get him resigned. Besides, a lot can happen in two years for a team that was on the playoff bubble until the last few days too...in no small part due to Pavelec, who really hasn't got much of a reason to leave.

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12-19-2012, 10:54 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
And I get your argument too, but it's not like Winnipeg is a foreign country to Schneider or anything, he's played some of the best hockey of his career there. IMHO, someone would have to screw up royal to NOT get him resigned. Besides, a lot can happen in two years for a team that was on the playoff bubble until the last few days too...in no small part due to Pavelec, who really hasn't got much of a reason to leave.
Well...thats not exactly true now is it?

Statistically, Pavs got worse on a better and more complete team. Not really sure why.

He has shown us some great flashes of being a great goaltender, but so far it hasn't been consistently at all. I'm willing to be patient with him for another season or so, but we definitely need to see some better numbers out of him if we want to make the playoffs, let alone win a stanley cup.

I expect that we will see better this next season as the Jets puck possession game will be a lot better. I'm sure he'll glove hand his way back into everyone's good books before long.

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12-19-2012, 01:37 PM
  #129
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Well...thats not exactly true now is it?

Statistically, Pavs got worse on a better and more complete team. Not really sure why.

He has shown us some great flashes of being a great goaltender, but so far it hasn't been consistently at all. I'm willing to be patient with him for another season or so, but we definitely need to see some better numbers out of him if we want to make the playoffs, let alone win a stanley cup.

I expect that we will see better this next season as the Jets puck possession game will be a lot better. I'm sure he'll glove hand his way back into everyone's good books before long.
On paper, the Jets look like a playoff team this upcoming season.

Their forward crop is underrated assuming everyone plays up to potential. If Jokinen can repeat his pace from last season in CGY, and Wheeler can as well, then they should be okay. They have some 60+ point guys in Kane, Jokinen, and Wheeler to go along with some 50 point guys in Ladd, Little, and possibly Wellwood.

Their defense isn't bad either with Enstrom, Byfuglien, Bogosian, and Hainsey. They could use a left side gritty shutdown defender to really solidify the group. This is a need they could address mid season though, there may be a few guys available.

Pavelec is a question mark, he's a good goalie but I have no idea what to expect from the guy. I'd say he has another year to prove himself, as he's already a capable starter. I'm sure the Jets could get by with him, but if they had the opportunity to upgrade they may jump on it. Not too sure.

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12-19-2012, 01:44 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post
On paper, the Jets look like a playoff team this upcoming season.

Their forward crop is underrated assuming everyone plays up to potential. If Jokinen can repeat his pace from last season in CGY, and Wheeler can as well, then they should be okay. They have some 60+ point guys in Kane, Jokinen, and Wheeler to go along with some 50 point guys in Ladd, Little, and possibly Wellwood.

Their defense isn't bad either with Enstrom, Byfuglien, Bogosian, and Hainsey. They could use a left side gritty shutdown defender to really solidify the group. This is a need they could address mid season though, there may be a few guys available.

Pavelec is a question mark, he's a good goalie but I have no idea what to expect from the guy. I'd say he has another year to prove himself, as he's already a capable starter. I'm sure the Jets could get by with him, but if they had the opportunity to upgrade they may jump on it. Not too sure.
Absolutely agree with everything you've said here.

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12-19-2012, 02:24 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
Agreed, in fact I would much rather a young, potential first liner than an aging first liner, I was trying to emphasize that a 3-4 player package does nothing seeing as though we have depth, but lack a solid top 6 player (but Edler and Cory should return more than a top sixer).
in fact I would much rather a young, potential first liner than an aging first liner,

Everyone fans and GMs would prefer this. The issue with potential player is that you don't know if the potential will be reached. Would you like a prospect like Mika Zibanejad or do you want someone that has been in the league for 2, 3 years?

Did you know that about 20 wingers have scored 30 and more last year? Would you accept a 23 year old winger that scored 25 goal? no? what about 28 goals? what's your number?

One more question, what do you qualify as aging?Is 28 years old too old for you?
Would you accept Milan Michalek in a 1 for 1 trade for Edler?
27 yo, 6-2 225lbs, signed 4.33M, will be UFA in14/15.17 months older than Edler.

And good luck getting a potential first line centre for Edler.

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12-19-2012, 03:10 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
Well...thats not exactly true now is it?

Statistically, Pavs got worse on a better and more complete team. Not really sure why.

He has shown us some great flashes of being a great goaltender, but so far it hasn't been consistently at all. I'm willing to be patient with him for another season or so, but we definitely need to see some better numbers out of him if we want to make the playoffs, let alone win a stanley cup.

I expect that we will see better this next season as the Jets puck possession game will be a lot better. I'm sure he'll glove hand his way back into everyone's good books before long.
Sully, my friend, I know you're more then open to upgrading, and Schneider or Lu would be that to Pavs, but you're making the guy sound like he's incapable of being a starter on the Jets team. The games I watched where Pavs played, I can't call him dominant, but at the very worst I could say he was competant. The Jets certainly got better around him, but from watching him play, I don't think he did much worse, although that is countered by his stats last season.

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12-19-2012, 03:13 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by guyzeur View Post
in fact I would much rather a young, potential first liner than an aging first liner,

Everyone fans and GMs would prefer this. The issue with potential player is that you don't know if the potential will be reached. Would you like a prospect like Mika Zibanejad or do you want someone that has been in the league for 2, 3 years?

Did you know that about 20 wingers have scored 30 and more last year? Would you accept a 23 year old winger that scored 25 goal? no? what about 28 goals? what's your number?

One more question, what do you qualify as aging?Is 28 years old too old for you?
Would you accept Milan Michalek in a 1 for 1 trade for Edler?
27 yo, 6-2 225lbs, signed 4.33M, will be UFA in14/15.17 months older than Edler.

And good luck getting a potential first line centre for Edler.
Going by that logic. You'd trade Alfy for a potential top line player like Anton Rodin? Where do I sign! Edler is a top 15 defender in the game we aren't going to trade him for a downgrade to are team. I'd much rather have a top 20 defender than a player that hasn't proven himself at the NHL level.

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12-19-2012, 03:32 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by King Canuck View Post
Going by that logic. You'd trade Alfy for a potential top line player like Anton Rodin? Where do I sign! Edler is a top 15 defender in the game we aren't going to trade him for a downgrade to are team. I'd much rather have a top 20 defender than a player that hasn't proven himself at the NHL level.
all canuck players are vastly underrated around here. we lose a guy like Erhoff, and replace him with nobody, and still win a presidents trophy. (yes im aware LA steamrolled everyone in the playoffs).

the anti canuck logic is that the team is so good that the individual players have little value, as they are a result of the team. the team is good because every player is a bit better than their contract, and above average for their position/lineup spot.

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Old
12-19-2012, 04:10 PM
  #135
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Edler is redundant?????
Of course, Edler would be a great asset, but he refused to re-sign. I agree keeping Edler for the full term and getting nothing in return is worth it, if the Canucks can go on a run in the playoffs. Otherwise, you could put together a really sweet package to lure some GM into making a big move.

Edler and Luongo and whatever should be enough to get a soured superstar. The Canucks are still contenders, nobody should object to coming here. The team isn't going to move or fold or start a rebuild.

Gillis just needs to find out which superstar is defintitely not re-signing and go from there.

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12-19-2012, 04:17 PM
  #136
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Of course, Edler would be a great asset, but he refused to re-sign. I agree keeping Edler for the full term and getting nothing in return is worth it, if the Canucks can go on a run in the playoffs. Otherwise, you could put together a really sweet package to lure some GM into making a big move.

Edler and Luongo and whatever should be enough to get a soured superstar. The Canucks are still contenders, nobody should object to coming here. The team isn't going to move or fold or start a rebuild.

Gillis just needs to find out which superstar is defintitely not re-signing and go from there.
Why are you assuming Edler refused to re-sign? It's far more likely they're just waiting for the new CBA to see how the contract should be structured.

Unless you're assuming that every single player on a one year deal intends to walk, including Getzlaf, Flippula, etc. all because they didn't sign an immediate extention.

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12-19-2012, 04:26 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by King Canuck View Post
Going by that logic. You'd trade Alfy for a potential top line player like Anton Rodin? Where do I sign! Edler is a top 15 defender in the game we aren't going to trade him for a downgrade to are team. I'd much rather have a top 20 defender than a player that hasn't proven himself at the NHL level.
You're missing where he was going with that. He meant a young, potential 1st line player like Tyler Seguin, Evander Kane, or Nail Yakupov (to a lesser extent). A player that is already established, or is a can't miss.

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12-19-2012, 04:42 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by guyzeur View Post
in fact I would much rather a young, potential first liner than an aging first liner,

Everyone fans and GMs would prefer this. The issue with potential player is that you don't know if the potential will be reached. Would you like a prospect like Mika Zibanejad or do you want someone that has been in the league for 2, 3 years?

Did you know that about 20 wingers have scored 30 and more last year? Would you accept a 23 year old winger that scored 25 goal? no? what about 28 goals? what's your number?

One more question, what do you qualify as aging?Is 28 years old too old for you?
Would you accept Milan Michalek in a 1 for 1 trade for Edler?
27 yo, 6-2 225lbs, signed 4.33M, will be UFA in14/15.17 months older than Edler.

And good luck getting a potential first line centre for Edler.
k

why would we be looking for a first line centre? We have Hank and Kesler down the middle!

This is also a thread titled Edler and Schneider, so it was pretty crazy me expecting that hypothetically we were trading both. Evander Kane has been mentioned (I know it makes no sense for the Jets but it was gauging value). Wingers are imo worth less than centres so I would think Edler being in the top 20-25 defenseman in the NHL would return a similar winger.

I wasn't paticlularily looking for a prospect, but rather a young player that has put up good numbers but has yet to fully establish themselves as a legitimate first line player or a consistent U30 player with size, but doesn't need to be the best point producer.

I didn't see anything wrong with my statement, as a "cup now" team I would expect that a lot of people would look at our situation and offer older players that help us now, where as I would rather try to get a legitimate piece that was younger (even if less proven and effective right now).

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12-19-2012, 06:04 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post
You're missing where he was going with that. He meant a young, potential 1st line player like Tyler Seguin, Evander Kane, or Nail Yakupov (to a lesser extent). A player that is already established, or is a can't miss.
I thought he was talking about Zibanejad

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12-21-2012, 01:41 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by JuniorNelson View Post
Of course, Edler would be a great asset, but he refused to re-sign. I agree keeping Edler for the full term and getting nothing in return is worth it, if the Canucks can go on a run in the playoffs. Otherwise, you could put together a really sweet package to lure some GM into making a big move.

Edler and Luongo and whatever should be enough to get a soured superstar. The Canucks are still contenders, nobody should object to coming here. The team isn't going to move or fold or start a rebuild.

Gillis just needs to find out which superstar is defintitely not re-signing and go from there.
When did Edler refuse to re-sign with us?

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12-21-2012, 01:46 AM
  #141
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I should stop coming to this board.

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12-21-2012, 01:49 AM
  #142
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When did Edler refuse to re-sign with us?
At this point money is the thing keeping us from resigning Edler and TBH it's more likely than not he's going to walk. He'll fetch big money as a UFA.

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12-21-2012, 08:19 AM
  #143
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At this point money is the thing keeping us from resigning Edler and TBH it's more likely than not he's going to walk. He'll fetch big money as a UFA.
I'll just use my response from a few posts up, as no one seems to have answered it.

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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Why are you assuming Edler refused to re-sign? It's far more likely they're just waiting for the new CBA to see how the contract should be structured.

Unless you're assuming that every single player on a one year deal intends to walk, including Getzlaf, Flippula, etc. all because they didn't sign an immediate extention.

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12-21-2012, 09:50 AM
  #144
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At this point money is the thing keeping us from resigning Edler and TBH it's more likely than not he's going to walk. He'll fetch big money as a UFA.
Haha what?! Link?

Gillis for the most part doesn't sign players in the offseason before they become UFAs. At the very earliest, he'll sign them mid season after he sees how they perform in a contract year. As far as I'm concerned, its far more likely that Gillis is the reason we haven't re-signed Edler yet, rather than Edler himself. Gillis knew there was a strong chance the UFA age would be increased to 28, I'm sure he'd rather negotiate with a RFA than a UFA to be. Plus, he might as well wait and see what happens in the new CBA prior to signing Edler.

Edler has some roots here, believe it or not. He played for Kelowna in the WHL, and went pretty fluently into Vancouver as a Canuck. He has friends on this team, I always see him down in Yaletown on Friday/Saturday nights with guys like Bieksa and Kesler eating or having a beer. In other words, I really don't think he wants to leave. Other than Sweden, BC is his next home. I'm not even sure he leaves in the offseason too much.

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12-23-2012, 12:05 AM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Schneiderman View Post
At this point money is the thing keeping us from resigning Edler and TBH it's more likely than not he's going to walk. He'll fetch big money as a UFA.
Pretty hard to construct an extension with no CBA, or am I deep into the woods here?

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12-23-2012, 12:11 AM
  #146
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This makes no sense. The Canucks are probably going to build their back end around these two guys, not move them.
Exactly, it's one of those what ifs that just doesn't have very much to do with reality.

It's like saying "what if the Oilers decided to go older and win now which 3 of the big 5 do they trade?"

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