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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Who here would like to see the NHL completely dissolve?

View Poll Results: Would you like to see the NHL crumble and see a new league created?
Yes 210 29.41%
No 504 70.59%
Voters: 714. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
12-13-2012, 09:14 PM
  #426
sandysan
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Originally Posted by Trl3789 View Post
I understand that soccer may not have been part of the social fabric of your youth. As i stated in an earlier post though, soccer is the by far the most popular youth sport in America. You seem to think the best way (or easiest) to become a fan is to play the sport growing up. To gain experiences by playing the game. Why then does it struggle in popularity in the states?
Because the game is boring ? I know lots of people who played soccer, I never saw anyone idolize soccer players the way they did hockey players.

Why that is, I don't know.

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Old
12-13-2012, 09:18 PM
  #427
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Fair point, no argument.

Edit: i should say that i think there are reasons why, but its too complex a discussion that doesn't have a ton to do with the business of hockey

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12-13-2012, 09:19 PM
  #428
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Maybe because it was part of the social fabric of SOMEONE'S youth. The social fabric of your youth isn't any more valuable than the social fabric of anyone else's. They're all equal in the grand scheme of things. I would NEVER presume myself to claim that my experiences as a youth are somehow more valid than anyone else's.
I never said that, if mls went under I m sure some people would be upset, I'm just not one of them.

Because I think soccer is a dull uninspired game does not mean that I expect you to share my opinion. If you like soccer, good for you, I hope you get to enjoy it. Validity has zero to do with it aside fom my own perceptions.

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12-13-2012, 09:33 PM
  #429
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Originally Posted by Trl3789 View Post
I understand that soccer may not have been part of the social fabric of your youth. As i stated in an earlier post though, soccer is the by far the most popular youth sport in America. You seem to think the best way (or easiest) to become a fan is to play the sport growing up. To gain experiences by playing the game. Why then does it struggle in popularity in the states?
Playing a game in ones youth or even taking it up recreationally as an adult simply gives one a different perspective. Experiential as opposed to passive or static. It is not a pre-requisite however to have played to embrace & love the game, as witness the large % of female fans who absolutely adore the sport, the NHL. As for "why then does it struggle for popularity"? Where to begin....

Ive had this conversation with innumerable American & British, European AND Canadian friends over the years, and here's a small sampling of what Ive been told; the rules are archaic. It can be mind numbingly boring with all the stoppages in play & often times difficult to track the puck & play. The level of hitting & violence is off-putting to those accustomed to soccer, football, basketball or baseball. An assault to manys' sense's of sportsmanlike conduct even cleaned up as it has been over the past 6 years. There are too many meaningless games played through the regular season which is also too long, inconvenient, with multiple weeknight dates from October through March. Cost is also an issue, be it for tickets or enrolment (kids); time contraints & so on, along with a general feeling amongst many that the NHL itself is little more than a Carny operator along the lines of a Conklin Brothers or Barnum & Bailey, not to be taken seriously much less respected. Hucksters. There are other "issues", but those seem to be the most oft repeated Ive heard....


Last edited by Killion: 12-13-2012 at 09:39 PM.
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12-13-2012, 09:36 PM
  #430
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Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
I never said that, if mls went under I m sure some people would be upset, I'm just not one of them.

Because I think soccer is a dull uninspired game does not mean that I expect you to share my opinion. If you like soccer, good for you, I hope you get to enjoy it. Validity has zero to do with it aside fom my own perceptions.
I don't. I dislike soccer with a passion. But just because you or I dislike soccer doesn't mean it isn't part of the social fabric of someone's youth. Hence Trl's comparison was valid.

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12-13-2012, 09:41 PM
  #431
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Ive had this conversation with innumerable American & British, European AND Canadian friends over the years, and here's a small sampling of what Ive been told; the rules are archaic. It can be mind numbingly boring with all the stoppages in play & often times difficult to track the puck & play. The level of hitting & violence is off-putting to those accustomed to soccer, football, basketball or baseball. An assault to manys' sense's of sportsmanlike conduct even cleaned up as it has been over the past 6 years. There are too many meaningless games played through the regular season which is also too long, inconvenient, with multiple weeknight dates from October through March.
Yeah, but those same arguments can be made against any sport. Usually from somebody who's team was mathematically eliminated at the all-star break And hockey is no more violent than football. Hell, even high school football is easily as violent a game as NHL hockey and that's not even touching on the NCAA and the NFL

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12-13-2012, 09:54 PM
  #432
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Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 View Post
And hockey is no more violent than football. Hell, even high school football is easily as violent a game as NHL hockey and that's not even touching on the NCAA and the NFL
Huh? Hockey is a Hell of a lot more violent than football. Its way way faster, youve got razor sharp blades on your feet and a club in your hand, and behind the play, in it if your not that bright, a facewash, elbow, slash, spear, shot to the head as a howdyado gottadash, drop the gloves full on bare fisted fighting... theres no comparison. I played Soccer, Football, Rugby, Lacrosse & Hockey, the latter absolutely the most violent of the the lot, Lacrosse a close second, deadlier in some respects as you could really nail someone with a straight right, clothesline or whatever, without skates on, and it was legal. But hockey, heck, it was marketed and played as a "Blood Sport" for over 70yrs, still is some circles. Checkout the LNAH in Quebec. 7 "Semi-Pro" bloodthirsty hockey teams.

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12-13-2012, 10:05 PM
  #433
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Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
Because the game is boring ? I know lots of people who played soccer, I never saw anyone idolize soccer players the way they did hockey players.... Why that is, I don't know.
France, Germany, the UK, Spain, Brazil etc. Soccer players are Gods'. US & Canada not so much. Football, Basketball, Baseball & Hockey players, another matter altogether.

And please Note; Lets get back on topic, no more personal shots....

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12-13-2012, 10:14 PM
  #434
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burn baby burn.

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12-13-2012, 10:25 PM
  #435
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burn baby burn.
Now thats succinct.

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12-13-2012, 10:50 PM
  #436
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Huh? Hockey is a Hell of a lot more violent than football. Its way way faster, youve got razor sharp blades on your feet and a club in your hand, and behind the play, in it if your not that bright, a facewash, elbow, slash, spear, shot to the head as a howdyado gottadash, drop the gloves full on bare fisted fighting... theres no comparison. I played Soccer, Football, Rugby, Lacrosse & Hockey, the latter absolutely the most violent of the the lot, Lacrosse a close second, deadlier in some respects as you could really nail someone with a straight right, clothesline or whatever, without skates on, and it was legal. But hockey, heck, it was marketed and played as a "Blood Sport" for over 70yrs, still is some circles. Checkout the LNAH in Quebec. 7 "Semi-Pro" bloodthirsty hockey teams.
I actually disagree. I think a distinction needs to be made between violent and dangerous. Yes hockey is more dangerous than football, but i'm not sure about violent. I think they're comparable. Every play in football requires explosive contact, not to mention the fact that having to tackle leads to players getting their legs rolled up on all the time. I also think that as equipment has evolved, it has gotten more dangerous. (particularly helmets) Go back to leather helmets and football wouldn't be as dangerous. But yes, hockey is extremely dangerous because of the speed, steel, sticks.


Quote:
Ive had this conversation with innumerable American & British, European AND Canadian friends over the years, and here's a small sampling of what Ive been told; the rules are archaic. It can be mind numbingly boring with all the stoppages in play & often times difficult to track the puck & play. The level of hitting & violence is off-putting to those accustomed to soccer, football, basketball or baseball. An assault to manys' sense's of sportsmanlike conduct even cleaned up as it has been over the past 6 years. There are too many meaningless games played through the regular season which is also too long, inconvenient, with multiple weeknight dates from October through March. Cost is also an issue, be it for tickets or enrolment (kids); time contraints & so on, along with a general feeling amongst many that the NHL itself is little more than a Carny operator along the lines of a Conklin Brothers or Barnum & Bailey, not to be taken seriously much less respected. Hucksters. There are other "issues", but those seem to be the most oft repeated Ive heard....
As to this, I think the cost/need for equipment plays a major role in kids exposure participation. One football or soccer ball and a group of friends is all you need to go to the park and play. ALL your friends need sticks to play a game of hockey in the street. But there are a bunch of other issues as well.

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12-21-2012, 07:09 AM
  #437
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At first I wanted the league to go through a major overhaul. Now, I just want it to disappear.

A new league can be created and can be successful. I have no doubt.

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12-21-2012, 07:42 AM
  #438
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This is what I want to see happen.
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12-21-2012, 07:44 AM
  #439
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^^^^

And from the ashes a new league where the most any player makes is $1,000,000 per season, and the most expensive tickets are $50, and beer is $2.... Oh, well, I can dream.

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12-21-2012, 07:49 AM
  #440
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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
^^^^

And from the ashes a new league where the most any player makes is $1,000,000 per season, and the most expensive tickets are $50, and beer is $2.... Oh, well, I can dream.
but they'd be second fiddle to the Elite league, oh well have fun watching that league. Sort of like the AHL is now. Even lower, the AHL spends over a million in salary per team.

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12-21-2012, 08:34 AM
  #441
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but they'd be second fiddle to the Elite league, oh well have fun watching that league. Sort of like the AHL is now. Even lower, the AHL spends over a million in salary per team.
What elite league? The NHL is watered down crap now. It also cancels a season once every 7-8 years.

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12-21-2012, 09:23 AM
  #442
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At first I wanted the league to go through a major overhaul. Now, I just want it to disappear.

A new league can be created and can be successful. I have no doubt.
How would this be accomplished ? Are you suggesting that you exclude the leafs and Rogers just eats the money they just paid to buy the team ? in a lot of cities the only reasonable venue is either owned by the teams you want to exclude or they have exclusivity rights. Aside from KC there aren't many NHL ready arenas without primary tenants.

And there are plenty of profitable/stable teams in the NHL. Why throw the baby out with the bathwater ? A lot of what ails the league could be temporarily fixed by relocation. If suitable markets end up drying up they can do lateral moves ( one unproven market that failed to another unproven market) and hope for the best. Perhaps the lessons learned could be relied upon in order to not have similar trainwrecks.

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12-21-2012, 09:38 AM
  #443
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Bring back the WHA, Robert Hull.

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12-21-2012, 10:34 AM
  #444
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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
^^^^

And from the ashes a new league where the most any player makes is $1,000,000 per season, and the most expensive tickets are $50, and beer is $2.... Oh, well, I can dream.
Everybody wants $2 beer.....

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12-21-2012, 10:37 AM
  #445
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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
^^^^

And from the ashes a new league where the most any player makes is $1,000,000 per season, and the most expensive tickets are $50, and beer is $2.... Oh, well, I can dream.
Only if you want to see all the world's best talent playing in Russia.

I'm on the owners side in this particular lockout, but only because I don't see anything the owners are demanding, seriously threatening the NHL's ability to attract the world's best talent. Once the NHLPA gets over its temper tantrum and we get hockey back, they'll still be the best and brightest league of players in the world, and paid accordingly. Start underpaying them TOO much, and they have enough alternatives that they can legitimately take their show on the road.

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12-21-2012, 10:51 AM
  #446
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Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
How would this be accomplished ? Are you suggesting that you exclude the leafs and Rogers just eats the money they just paid to buy the team ? in a lot of cities the only reasonable venue is either owned by the teams you want to exclude or they have exclusivity rights. Aside from KC there aren't many NHL ready arenas without primary tenants.

And there are plenty of profitable/stable teams in the NHL. Why throw the baby out with the bathwater ? A lot of what ails the league could be temporarily fixed by relocation. If suitable markets end up drying up they can do lateral moves ( one unproven market that failed to another unproven market) and hope for the best. Perhaps the lessons learned could be relied upon in order to not have similar trainwrecks.
It has nothing to do with profitable teams. Those profitable teams including the leafs can play within a newly created league. It has happened before. Why doyou and others act like the NHL can't be destroyed? It's happening right now.

The NHL is what it is based on teams like the Habs, Leafs, Flyers, Bruins, etc... if the league did fail, I have no doubt that a new league would be successful with these teams.

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12-21-2012, 11:11 AM
  #447
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
It has nothing to do with profitable teams. Those profitable teams including the leafs can play within a newly created league. It has happened before. Why doyou and others act like the NHL can't be destroyed? It's happening right now.

The NHL is what it is based on teams like the Habs, Leafs, Flyers, Bruins, etc... if the league did fail, I have no doubt that a new league would be successful with these teams.
How many sponsors do you think a new league is going to find when it's made up of the same teams, players, and owners? To me, a league folding just to remake itself labels it as an extreme risk to invest in... and that's on top of it already being an extreme risk to invest in based on all the work stoppages.

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12-21-2012, 11:13 AM
  #448
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How many sponsors do you think a new league is going to find when it's made up of the same teams, players, and owners? To me, a league folding just to remake itself labels it as an extreme risk to invest in... and that's on top of it already being an extreme risk to invest in based on all the work stoppages.
Not all teams will be there. A new league will have new ideas. I think a new league has just a good a shot with sponsors as the NHL does now.

The NHL as it is right now is a risky investment.

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12-21-2012, 11:27 AM
  #449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
It has nothing to do with profitable teams. Those profitable teams including the leafs can play within a newly created league. It has happened before. Why doyou and others act like the NHL can't be destroyed? It's happening right now.

The NHL is what it is based on teams like the Habs, Leafs, Flyers, Bruins, etc... if the league did fail, I have no doubt that a new league would be successful with these teams.
what other NA sports league went belly up just to be reborn again...stronger.

Please, I'm interested.

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12-21-2012, 11:31 AM
  #450
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New league with about 10 Canadian teams and about 10 US teams.

No fighting.

International size ice surface.

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