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TSN: Jordan Eberle ranked #1 Canadian WJC player of all time

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Old
12-19-2012, 03:09 PM
  #26
jukon
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Originally Posted by TowMater14 View Post
For those saying Lindros, Eberle point total average per year played was actually better I do believe.
Lindros has 31 points over three years where Eberle has 26 over two.

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12-19-2012, 03:32 PM
  #27
Leo Trollmarov
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Originally Posted by DuckJet View Post
Was the sample size 14-17 year old Canadian kids?
Under 20 Canadian kids.

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12-19-2012, 03:33 PM
  #28
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I feel Brayden Schenn deserves some mention. Unfortunately his best performance was under a losing team.

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12-19-2012, 03:35 PM
  #29
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I don't like rankings that cover several years or decades because people tend to overvalue recent successes that are fresh in their minds.

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12-19-2012, 03:53 PM
  #30
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I don't disagree. Eberle was very clutch for Canada as everyone here knows, lead both teams.

I do think there's some memory bias here though, people will tend to vote for more recent players as you remember them more

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12-19-2012, 04:09 PM
  #31
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But I thought it was Tavares magical play! Eberle is hogging his attention.

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12-19-2012, 04:19 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canada4Gold View Post
I don't disagree. Eberle was very clutch for Canada as everyone here knows, lead both teams.

I do think there's some memory bias here though, people will tend to vote for more recent players as you remember them more
He didn't lead both teams. Hodgson and Tavares both had more points than him in 2009. Tavares was named MVP and many in the media and his own coach said they would have picked Hodgson for that honor. I'm not denying that Eberle was easily in the top 3 for that team, but to say he lead both times isn't true.

This whole list is tilted. Many people are rated high on this due to team success and playing multiple tournaments. And yes, recent players are getting far too much consideration. Gretzky was 16 compared to Eberle being 19. Gretzky led the tournament in goals, assists and points. Gretzky was in on almost half of the goals the team scored compared to a third like Eberle. Two guys had 1 point less each than Eberle in 2010, while no one was close to Gretzky. Gretzky might not be the top guy, but he shouldn't be below someone just because one guy played on a much better squad and the team had better results.

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12-19-2012, 05:44 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nash View Post
He didn't lead both teams. Hodgson and Tavares both had more points than him in 2009. Tavares was named MVP and many in the media and his own coach said they would have picked Hodgson for that honor. I'm not denying that Eberle was easily in the top 3 for that team, but to say he lead both times isn't true.

This whole list is tilted. Many people are rated high on this due to team success and playing multiple tournaments. And yes, recent players are getting far too much consideration. Gretzky was 16 compared to Eberle being 19. Gretzky led the tournament in goals, assists and points. Gretzky was in on almost half of the goals the team scored compared to a third like Eberle. Two guys had 1 point less each than Eberle in 2010, while no one was close to Gretzky. Gretzky might not be the top guy, but he shouldn't be below someone just because one guy played on a much better squad and the team had better results.
I didn't mean he was the only leader, I just meant he was a top player on both teams

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12-19-2012, 11:39 PM
  #34
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I think it's interesting that some people are saying people picking Eberle are being short sighted but then point out his 1(or 3) big goal(s).

Eberle had 14 goals/26 points in 12 games over those two years. How many Canadians averaged over 2 points per game in back to back years or over a goal per game in back to back years? How many Canadians put up at least 1 point in every single WJC game he played(pre tournament included)? He had a 12 game point streak. The next best in Team Canada history is 7. In 2009 he was right up there with Tavares and Hodgson. He just didn't get the same type of attention as them from the fans or media because they were high profile prospects coming into the tournament where Eberle was basically a no namer to the average fan. In 2010 he was the tournament's MVP though. There are a lot of goals that get forgotten but were heavily talked about at the time. He scored some big goals that would act as momentum shifters in games. Then you add on top of it all that he did have those two huge moments when the team needed him most.

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Old
12-20-2012, 12:01 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp10 View Post
I don't like rankings that cover several years or decades because people tend to overvalue recent successes that are fresh in their minds.
Totally agree with this !

I can't understand Toews in the top 10, I know he was good in the Shootout but common. Also Jason Bottrill happens to be there for 3 gold medals, dosen't mean he was a major contributor for those.

Some guys that could have been there:

Paul Kariya, two time 2nd in pts for the team
Christian Dubé, 2nd and 1st in team scoring
Mike Cammallari 2nd and 1st in team scoring
Carlo Colaiacovo 13pts in 13 games, lead the team in scoring his 2nd year
Nigel Dawes lead the team in scoring 1st year, 17pts in 12 games

Points in the most recent years have gone up alot, but to me it's still more impressive to lead the team in scoring with 8 pts than being 3rd with 12 for exemple.

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Old
12-20-2012, 12:16 AM
  #36
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What is all this 'people tend to over value recent successes'? 4 of the top 5 are from 1995 and back.

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Old
12-20-2012, 02:40 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyGuruPitka View Post
For me its Tavares over Eberle. However both are more or less the top players in my era. Eberle is famous because of 1 goal.

Tavares 2 golds

Vs

Eberle's Gold and Silver

Plus the fact that Tavares was apart in 08golds and 09golds with Eberle in 09 gold and 10 silver.

The difference is that Tavares is a year younger.

That is my debate.
1 goal? How about his shootout goal and 2 goals against Russia?

Or the 2 goals within 3 minutes of the 3rd that forced OT against the US. That "Silver medal" was 1 goal away from being gold.

Or how about his 5 point game vs Sweden?

He was an underdog that refused to quit. He gave all of Canada hope with his on ice heroics.

Tavares had an immense amount of talent on the team when he won those medals. Eberle essentially carried Canada in 2010.

And Eberle scored more goals than Lindros in 9 less games. Lindros played during a time where most international teams were not as strong as they are now.

Look at Sweden last year. And Russia pretty much every year.

Eberle is Captain Clutch.

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Old
12-20-2012, 10:21 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Sharp10 View Post
Excellent choice. Toews should be ranked a little higher.
Oh, now I know why I don't come on this board anymore, Hawks homerism.

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Old
12-20-2012, 11:50 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TowMater14 View Post
For those saying Lindros, Eberle point total average per year played was actually better I do believe.
Another case of stats aren't everything. Look at the teams Eric Lindros played on, he had guys like Mike Craig, Mike Needham, Wes Walz and Greg Johnson to back him.

These are teams that would have probably been lucky to win bronze but took home gold because of one guy.

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Old
12-20-2012, 12:05 PM
  #40
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TSN guys said last night on air as well that Eberle is the only player (to play in more than 1 tourney, I believe) to score a point in every single game he played. Including pre-tournament games. That's like a 15 game streak.

Can't say I disagree with the pick, but it is definitely debatable with Lindros. Eberle is the leading goal scorer, while Lindros the leading point getter.

A main factor the TSN guys mentioned is while Lindros was always kind of "evenly" good, Eberle had the clutch, big-time goals in him that set him apart slightly.

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Old
12-20-2012, 02:09 PM
  #41
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Eberle is rightly no 1 on this list because no matter what he does in the NHL, he will always be remembered across Canada for being a WJC star.

2009 and 2010 was definitely a peak of interest in the WJC in Canada and Eberle was a hero in both, and the leader in the 2nd.

As Bob McKenzie pointed out in his little blurb, the 5.4 seconds goal will always be the most memorable image, but his performance the next year against the Americans in both games, especially the finals was insane. The goals aside, he was all over the ice in the finals in 2010 and looked poised to end the game at any point.

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Old
12-20-2012, 03:20 PM
  #42
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Kind of a modern bias. For a tournament that's been around for 35 years, 50% of the players played no earlier than the 2004 tournament.

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Old
12-20-2012, 04:33 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Kessly Snipes View Post
Craig Button was on the panel, so we know its irrelevant and biased. At least that's what hf posters have taught me lately.
Button is the only one of the three on the panel that didn't have Eberle first.

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Old
12-20-2012, 04:39 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by luongo321 View Post
Jordan Schroeder at #1 for Team USA, but AHLer for life.
Something that watching the 1995 WJC Final the other night on TSN hammered home, is how this tournament can be the pinnacle of some players' careers. I was stunned at some of the names on Team Canada - Baumgartner, Harvey, Storr, Courville, Rivers, and that's just naming a few. Contrast with the 2005 squad that was pretty much filled with guys who went on to become legitimate stars.

That said, Schroeder would likely be in USA's Top 10.

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Old
12-20-2012, 04:49 PM
  #45
Leo Trollmarov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dss97 View Post
Button is the only one of the three on the panel that didn't have Eberle first.
3?

I count 25

Quote:
Team Canada's 40 Greatest Juniors panel:
  1. Sherry Bassin, Erie Otters general manager;
  2. Craig Button, TSN scout;
  3. Tim Bernhardt, Phoenix Coyotes scout;
  4. Ken Campbell, The Hockey News;
  5. David Conte, New Jersey Devils scout;
  6. Gregg Drinnan, Kamloops Daily News;
  7. James Duthie, TSN host;
  8. Sheldon Ferguson, Carolina Hurricanes scout;
  9. Ray Ferraro, TSN analyst;
  10. Paul Graham, TSN vice-president;
  11. Terry Jones, Edmonton Sun;
  12. Terry Koshan, Toronto Sun;
  13. Marc Lachapelle, Journal de Montréal (retired);
  14. Gary Lawless, Winnipeg Free Press;
  15. Stephane Leroux, RDS host;
  16. Peter Loubardias, Shaw WHL play-by-play commentator;
  17. Blair Mackasey, Minnesota Wild scout;
  18. Pierre McGuire, NBC analyst;
  19. Bob McKenzie, TSN Insider;
  20. Gord Miller, TSN play-by-play commentator;
  21. Willy Palov, Halifax Chronicle-Herald;
  22. Brad Pascall, Hockey Canada vice-president;
  23. Andrew Podnieks, IIHF writer;
  24. Donna Spencer, Canadian Press;
  25. Ed Willes, Vancouver Province.

DOWN WITH BUTTON!!!


Also down with buttons on jeans, zippers are so much better, seriously, who wants button fly jeans. I'll tell you who, Craig button, what a hippy!

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Old
12-20-2012, 04:59 PM
  #46
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I'm not old enough to remember the Big E in the tournament. For me it's Eberle and then Toews with that shootout performance; both were clutch.

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Old
12-20-2012, 05:12 PM
  #47
ponder
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I think Eberle is a good pick. Ridiculously clutch heroics on a number of occasions, and very prolific in general (among Canadians he has the most WJC goals, second most WJC points, behind only Lindros in points who played in 3 tourney's vs. Eberle's 2).

I think it starts to get a touch more questionable as you go further down the list. For example, Toews at 8, with guys like Crosby, Hodgson, Pietrangelo and Getzlaf at 23/27/28/29. Seems like they're overvaluing his shootout performance (which was awesome, but it was still just a shootout).

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Old
12-21-2012, 08:58 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponder View Post
I think Eberle is a good pick. Ridiculously clutch heroics on a number of occasions, and very prolific in general (among Canadians he has the most WJC goals, second most WJC points, behind only Lindros in points who played in 3 tourney's vs. Eberle's 2).

I think it starts to get a touch more questionable as you go further down the list. For example, Toews at 8, with guys like Crosby, Hodgson, Pietrangelo and Getzlaf at 23/27/28/29. Seems like they're overvaluing his shootout performance (which was awesome, but it was still just a shootout).
I have to agree. If this was a top MOMENTS list then Toews' performance in the shootout would definitely be near the top of the list.

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