HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Boston Bruins
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

2012 CBA/Lockout talk Part VII..Will a deal get done..

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-20-2012, 03:38 PM
  #126
WBC8
Registered User
 
WBC8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: HFL 4 Life
Country: United States
Posts: 34,925
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to WBC8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morris Wanchuk View Post
44 game schedule.. divisional opponents in the building 3 times in 3.5 months. No western conference games, only gave to see the pitiful southeast division once?

I could get used to this.
Exactly...I love that set up as well.

WBC8 is offline  
Old
12-20-2012, 04:28 PM
  #127
ap3lovr
Registered User
 
ap3lovr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Moncton
Posts: 4,012
vCash: 500
Both sides are holding the end of the season over the other. They are hoping it caves the other sides will. I really hope this gets done and I can watch playoff hockey this year. I however have a feeling I will be looking forward to the World Championship instead.

Neither side has been bargaining in good faith, both sides have simply been trying to out wait the other. This is a dangerous game of chicken both sides are playing. This whole thing along with the fiscal cliff really makes me wonder when we as a society learned to be so polarizing. Why is it so hard for 2 sides to work together to find a solution?

ap3lovr is offline  
Old
12-20-2012, 04:34 PM
  #128
robert terwilliger
the bart, the
 
robert terwilliger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: sw florida
Country: United States
Posts: 18,513
vCash: 500
fire up nhl95, there's not going to be a season this year.

robert terwilliger is offline  
Old
12-20-2012, 04:40 PM
  #129
PatriceBergeronFan
U.S. Army Hooah!
 
PatriceBergeronFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 8,056
vCash: 500
If they cancel more games then I will give up any last hope. 48 games is bad enough, less than that unless it is only our division and non-divisional rivals is just pointless.

PatriceBergeronFan is offline  
Old
12-20-2012, 04:57 PM
  #130
DoubleAAAA
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,588
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanHortonFan View Post
If they cancel more games then I will give up any last hope. 48 games is bad enough, less than that unless it is only our division and non-divisional rivals is just pointless.
Conventional thinking is that there won't be any more games cut. It's this or no season at all.

DoubleAAAA is offline  
Old
12-20-2012, 05:49 PM
  #131
DKH
Registered User
 
DKH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 27,401
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to DKH
Quote:
Originally Posted by ap3lovr View Post
Both sides are holding the end of the season over the other. They are hoping it caves the other sides will. I really hope this gets done and I can watch playoff hockey this year. I however have a feeling I will be looking forward to the World Championship instead.

Neither side has been bargaining in good faith, both sides have simply been trying to out wait the other. This is a dangerous game of chicken both sides are playing. This whole thing along with the fiscal cliff really makes me wonder when we as a society learned to be so polarizing. Why is it so hard for 2 sides to work together to find a solution?
there is strong specualtion that the players will not let the season go down the toilet and worst case scenario they will agree to the Dec 5th offer but certainly would like to work off that- but Fehr is going to continue to wait out against them as he has so far and see if they move.

Don Fehr knows the best offer he will have will be the one the owners will have offered as they walk up to the podium to cancel the season- he knows the next one whenever that will be will be far less revenue to split up and many, many, many pissed off players like Shawn Thornton who's careers may be over will have long since gone nuts on the NHLPA leadership. He'll be just one of hundred plus

That is why this is going to be settled even if on the steps (and you know who knows this? Crosby)

DKH is offline  
Old
12-20-2012, 05:55 PM
  #132
Kaoz
Ima Krejciist.
 
Kaoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Country: Canada
Posts: 28,597
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKH View Post
there is strong specualtion that the players will not let the season go down the toilet and worst case scenario they will agree to the Dec 5th offer but certainly would like to work off that- but Fehr is going to continue to wait out against them as he has so far and see if they move.

Don Fehr knows the best offer he will have will be the one the owners will have offered as they walk up to the podium to cancel the season- he knows the next one whenever that will be will be far less revenue to split up and many, many, many pissed off players like Shawn Thornton who's careers may be over will have long since gone nuts on the NHLPA leadership. He'll be just one of hundred plus

That is why this is going to be settled even if on the steps (and you know who knows this? Crosby)
You definitely get that feeling with what's happened to date. Because of that though I don't expect to see a resolution until the 11th hour. Bettman and Co. aren't going back to the negotiation table if they figure the same, really no point. Make your next offer your best offer, and send it to the PA with a note to agree to this one or lets hit the podium and call the season.

Kaoz is offline  
Old
12-20-2012, 06:10 PM
  #133
DKH
Registered User
 
DKH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 27,401
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to DKH
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
You definitely get that feeling with what's happened to date. Because of that though I don't expect to see a resolution until the 11th hour. Bettman and Co. aren't going back to the negotiation table if they figure the same, really no point. Make your next offer your best offer, and send it to the PA with a note to agree to this one or lets hit the podium and call the season.
yah, what I heard is Fehr is playing them like a fiddle, waiting, waiting, waiting, all aloing realizing the body count (games) would be around 26-38 so what is an extra 8 games to get to the LAST CALL for hockey.

Fehr knows that when the owners look all puppy faced and sad and are really ready to pull the plug (if they can't negotiate off that Dec 5th offer which they can) with sincerity, and hate, and loaded up with blood pressure pills that is the best deal he can get. He will take it. He was hired to make the best deal not help kill the game.

This has been his strategy all along- wait them out but know when to make the deal. The players are nervous but really the owners were going to screw up 2 months and 24 games anways so Fehr is figuring another month or so (December) he will have the owners sweating a bit to and be confident the deal made is the best deal.

worst case scenario is the owners set a date, put up a podium and Bettman dresses in black and walks up and says 'Season Over'.

I'm just freaking happy because I want closure- I am real interested what the final Act looks like. My guess is if the league is smart they negotiate age, percentage, and current team extended rights into the sticking point and get a deal done. They let Crosby and another player or two look like they brokered this for the best of the game and let the fans hate the owners and Fehr and like the players.

DKH is offline  
Old
12-20-2012, 06:29 PM
  #134
Spooner st
Registered User
 
Spooner st's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,498
vCash: 500
delete

Spooner st is offline  
Old
12-20-2012, 06:39 PM
  #135
smithformeragent
Moderator
 
smithformeragent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Manchester NH
Country: United States
Posts: 9,007
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to smithformeragent
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKH View Post

I'm just freaking happy because I want closure- I am real interested what the final Act looks like. My guess is if the league is smart they negotiate age, percentage, and current team extended rights into the sticking point and get a deal done. They let Crosby and another player or two look like they brokered this for the best of the game and let the fans hate the owners and Fehr and like the players.
until years later when the fans learned that it was nothing but an elaborate cover up to protect the integrity of the sport....I saw it in a batman movie

smithformeragent is offline  
Old
12-20-2012, 07:00 PM
  #136
DKH
Registered User
 
DKH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 27,401
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to DKH
Quote:
Originally Posted by smithformeragent View Post
until years later when the fans learned that it was nothing but an elaborate cover up to protect the integrity of the sport....I saw it in a batman movie

years later- I think we will know as its happening

Crosby is already catching **** not reported

DKH is offline  
Old
12-20-2012, 08:06 PM
  #137
WBC8
Registered User
 
WBC8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: HFL 4 Life
Country: United States
Posts: 34,925
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to WBC8
When this gets settled they need to start the preseason off with a Canucks / Bruins home and home .

WBC8 is offline  
Old
12-20-2012, 08:06 PM
  #138
cat400
Registered User
 
cat400's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,506
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKH View Post

years later- I think we will know as its happening

Crosby is already catching **** not reported
Crosby's agent, Pat Brisson, was on this afternoon's Prime Times Sports radio show with Bob McCown & John Shannon.

Shannon was urging Brisson to get involved in trying to bring both sides together.

Shannon stated that Brisson is well-connected with both sides and had a behind the scenes hand in the players / owners meeting in NY earlier this month.

From a distance it seems that the owners have a strong dislike for Don Fehr & the players share the same for the Lock-Out General Bettman.

If only we could get those two egomaniacs out of the way, a deal would probably come in short order.

cat400 is offline  
Old
12-20-2012, 09:20 PM
  #139
DKH
Registered User
 
DKH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 27,401
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to DKH
Quote:
Originally Posted by cat400 View Post
Crosby's agent, Pat Brisson, was on this afternoon's Prime Times Sports radio show with Bob McCown & John Shannon.

Shannon was urging Brisson to get involved in trying to bring both sides together.

Shannon stated that Brisson is well-connected with both sides and had a behind the scenes hand in the players / owners meeting in NY earlier this month.

From a distance it seems that the owners have a strong dislike for Don Fehr & the players share the same for the Lock-Out General Bettman.

If only we could get those two egomaniacs out of the way, a deal would probably come in short order.
hmmmm.....you may be on to something

DKH is offline  
Old
12-21-2012, 05:51 AM
  #140
Kaoz
Ima Krejciist.
 
Kaoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Country: Canada
Posts: 28,597
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cat400 View Post
Crosby's agent, Pat Brisson, was on this afternoon's Prime Times Sports radio show with Bob McCown & John Shannon.

Shannon was urging Brisson to get involved in trying to bring both sides together.

Shannon stated that Brisson is well-connected with both sides and had a behind the scenes hand in the players / owners meeting in NY earlier this month.

From a distance it seems that the owners have a strong dislike for Don Fehr & the players share the same for the Lock-Out General Bettman.

If only we could get those two egomaniacs out of the way, a deal would probably come in short order.
Bettman was all for that. Recuse both himself and Fehr and let the owners and players come to an agreement. Players insisted they wanted Fehr in the room.

Some fans claim it's because players aren't negotiators, and were woefully outmatched by the owners who do this type of bargaining for a living. Not sure why having Don Fehr and Gary Bettman out of the room means guys like Steve Fehr (a skilled negotiator in his own right) and Bill Daly can't be present?

Kaoz is offline  
Old
12-21-2012, 06:35 AM
  #141
Dom - OHL
http://ohlwriters.co
 
Dom - OHL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Stratford, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,929
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Dom - OHL
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
Too much power with too few individuals? True on both sides perhaps? But how do you fix it? I know I'm of the mind that I'd like to see the players vote on the final offer from the NHL before voting on decertifying, and that's largely because I believe more then enough players simply aren't affected by many of the issues holding things up. But then I also understand the flip side to that is most likely true as well, there are likely a good many owners who would have settled with the players final offer.

Everyone involved seems to be biting their nose off to spite their face right now but in the end I doubt either suffer for it. We've seen all the polls stating there has been much disinterest caused by the lockout, but then you see all the anger over the WJC game times, and see a Charity game sell out (albeit capacity was only 2600). Hockey fans love their hockey and like it or not, the NHL is the top echelon of professional hockey in NA. Unless a rival league springs up and somehow manages to out do the NHL people will flock back. I'll be one.
True. So many things don't get discussed, even here and the two subjects that really get me that came out of Fehr's mouth that really irk me are these:

Back in Dec, Jan and Feb: We don't want to start discussions now because we want all the players available to take part.

In September: We are all for any players seeking the opportunity to play elsewhere (and that includes Europe - yup we want them all available)

In November after the league's 2nd last offer: We are fighting for the players not yet in the league as they did back in 2004

After the last league offer: We don't want more than a 5 year CBA as it will effect players not yet in the league. (paraphrasing)

So which is it: you're fighting for future players or you don't want a CBA that affects future players?

Don't get me wrong, just as much, if not more crap has been spewed by Bettman, but those comments from Fehr have really done me in.

Give me Daly and S Fehr over those two 8 days a week.

Dom - OHL is offline  
Old
12-21-2012, 06:38 AM
  #142
ODAAT
Registered User
 
ODAAT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Halifax
Country: Canada
Posts: 28,376
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by smithformeragent View Post
until years later when the fans learned that it was nothing but an elaborate cover up to protect the integrity of the sport....I saw it in a batman movie
The NHL?? Integrity??? Perfect example of oxymoron

This league, it`s players, have left me disgusted and both sides should be embarrassed with their behaviours.

I`ve long stated,I`d rather have no season than a BS 50 gamer where less than worthy teams merely have to be average enough to snag a playoff spot, both sides whine and b***h about things, then decide to come back and make big $$ for half a year, forget about it

Integrity is history, I`ll stick with backing my Junior A team and Varsity team. I`m merely a blip on the screen when it comes to putting forth any $$ in the pocket of either side, the first time in years, I have instructed Mrs.Odaat from purchasing anything Bruin related.

The worst part?? I rarely ask/need anything and the tree is usually surrounded with Bruins swag dressed as Christmas gifts....poor Mrs. Odaat

ODAAT is offline  
Old
12-21-2012, 09:25 AM
  #143
bb74
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Annecy
Country: France
Posts: 3,103
vCash: 500
Game ovah....

The players have basically burned a non guaranteed 1.7B USD and another guarantees 300M.

Maybe they should change the draft age to 22 so these kids can get a decent education and understand the notion of compounded interest and the value of hard cash instead of meaningless "principles". What a bunch of clueless sheep over there. It's like a sect singing "kum bah ya", eating roasted marshmallows in a burning house.

I fully expect the next proposal to hurt.

bb74 is offline  
Old
12-21-2012, 09:31 AM
  #144
Kaoz
Ima Krejciist.
 
Kaoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Country: Canada
Posts: 28,597
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrrOverGretzky View Post
True. So many things don't get discussed, even here and the two subjects that really get me that came out of Fehr's mouth that really irk me are these:

Back in Dec, Jan and Feb: We don't want to start discussions now because we want all the players available to take part.

In September: We are all for any players seeking the opportunity to play elsewhere (and that includes Europe - yup we want them all available)

In November after the league's 2nd last offer: We are fighting for the players not yet in the league as they did back in 2004

After the last league offer: We don't want more than a 5 year CBA as it will effect players not yet in the league. (paraphrasing)

So which is it: you're fighting for future players or you don't want a CBA that affects future players?

Don't get me wrong, just as much, if not more crap has been spewed by Bettman, but those comments from Fehr have really done me in.

Give me Daly and S Fehr over those two 8 days a week.
Bugs me as well, although more so when you put it together like that. When he took the podium to explain how close they were on the December 5th offer and explained why the PA didn't want to go to a 10 year CBA with an opt out at 8, stating that it wouldn't allow new players coming in to the league to be part of the bargaining process it struck me as complete nonsense then and still does today. No matter how you cut it, players are the ones who take the hits financially during the CBA process. They very rarely come out on top in these negotiations in any sport. Why wouldn't a 19 year old just about to make the jump want a 10 year CBA? Why wouldn't that be in everyone's best interest? Players don't want to lose out on a year of hockey... they're all chomping at the bit to get back now.

I think Dan has it pretty well nailed honestly. Fehr is doing his part in holding out until the last possible minute to get the best possible deal for the players essentially hoping the owners will continue to negotiate against themselves. It's worked to a point getting the owners to increase make whole to 300 million, but at this point with Bettman and Co. refusing to come back to the table (really the only way to counter Fehr's strategy), the only ones losing out are the fans. I know Fehr's doing what he needs to do to get the most for the players, and yes that's his job description but as a fan of the game (aka emotional investor) I don't like it at all.

I'd sooner see an honest negotiation where both sides figured out exactly what they needed to make things work, as opposed to what they want. The NHL doesn't need any more work stoppages. I think we did see that with Daly and S. Fehr running the show. It's no coincidence that that's also the closest we've been to an actual agreement imo.

Kaoz is offline  
Old
12-21-2012, 09:32 AM
  #145
JMiller
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Watertown
Posts: 13,633
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bb74 View Post
Game ovah....

The players have basically burned a non guaranteed 1.7B USD and another guarantees 300M.

Maybe they should change the draft age to 22 so these kids can get a decent education and understand the notion of compounded interest and the value of hard cash instead of meaningless "principles". What a bunch of clueless sheep over there. It's like a sect singing "kum bah ya", eating roasted marshmallows in a burning house.

I fully expect the next proposal to hurt.
Considering they were willing to go 50/50, the owners have burned just as much- more even, considering they are paying out to staff and facilities during their lockout. Only one side has the keys to the locked doors, and it aint the players.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OrrOverGretzky View Post
True. So many things don't get discussed, even here and the two subjects that really get me that came out of Fehr's mouth that really irk me are these:

Back in Dec, Jan and Feb: We don't want to start discussions now because we want all the players available to take part.

In September: We are all for any players seeking the opportunity to play elsewhere (and that includes Europe - yup we want them all available)

In November after the league's 2nd last offer: We are fighting for the players not yet in the league as they did back in 2004

After the last league offer: We don't want more than a 5 year CBA as it will effect players not yet in the league. (paraphrasing)

So which is it: you're fighting for future players or you don't want a CBA that affects future players?

Don't get me wrong, just as much, if not more crap has been spewed by Bettman, but those comments from Fehr have really done me in.

Give me Daly and S Fehr over those two 8 days a week.
Got to think the players went with Fehr because they wanted a match for Bettman's scorched earth negotiation style- Fight fire with fire. Bettman would have loved to start negotiating early and drag it out as long as possible to break the union and pull everything they could ouy. Fehr counters by pushing Bettman to his "drop" dead date and will happily negotiate when Bettman is out of time and has to deal.


Last edited by JMiller: 12-21-2012 at 09:37 AM.
JMiller is offline  
Old
12-21-2012, 09:45 AM
  #146
BlackNgold 84
Registered User
 
BlackNgold 84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Massachusetts
Country: United States
Posts: 2,077
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by robert terwilliger View Post
fire up nhl95, there's not going to be a season this year.
NHL93 was soo much better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
Bettman was all for that. Recuse both himself and Fehr and let the owners and players come to an agreement. Players insisted they wanted Fehr in the room.

Some fans claim it's because players aren't negotiators, and were woefully outmatched by the owners who do this type of bargaining for a living. Not sure why having Don Fehr and Gary Bettman out of the room means guys like Steve Fehr (a skilled negotiator in his own right) and Bill Daly can't be present?
I said this before december 5th, morris said at some point that the 2's would get this done. Still believe it. Daly and S. Fehr have whats seems to be a better negotiation relationship with each other than The Donald and The Gary. Let the 2's figure it out and give the 1's a call when its done.

BlackNgold 84 is offline  
Old
12-21-2012, 09:52 AM
  #147
smithformeragent
Moderator
 
smithformeragent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Manchester NH
Country: United States
Posts: 9,007
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to smithformeragent
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackNgold 84 View Post
NHL93 was soo much better.



I said this before december 5th, morris said at some point that the 2's would get this done. Still believe it. Daly and S. Fehr have whats seems to be a better negotiation relationship with each other than The Donald and The Gary. Let the 2's figure it out and give the 1's a call when its done.
The way it's looking, next year we'll have NHLPA Hockey 2014 (with real players and not real teams) and NHL 14 (real teams, fake players)

NHL 94 gets all of the love, but I preferred 93.

smithformeragent is offline  
Old
12-21-2012, 09:56 AM
  #148
BlackNgold 84
Registered User
 
BlackNgold 84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Massachusetts
Country: United States
Posts: 2,077
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by smithformeragent View Post
The way it's looking, next year we'll have NHLPA Hockey 2014 (with real players and not real teams) and NHL 14 (real teams, fake players)

NHL 94 gets all of the love, but I preferred 93.
Very true.. I play 2012 since i haven't gotten 2013 and don't think i will. Its funny seeing some of the names that have been talking **** on twitter.. i usually get boarding penalties on them haha. Come on now.. 94 better than 93.. you couldn't fight in 94 and in 93 you can punch someone to the other side of the ice, which is very realistic . Man this has been the most fun i've had in this thread in awhile.

BlackNgold 84 is offline  
Old
12-21-2012, 10:03 AM
  #149
neelynugs
Registered User
 
neelynugs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Vote Quimby!
Posts: 29,549
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post

I'd sooner see an honest negotiation where both sides figured out exactly what they needed to make things work, as opposed to what they want. The NHL doesn't need any more work stoppages. I think we did see that with Daly and S. Fehr running the show. It's no coincidence that that's also the closest we've been to an actual agreement imo.
it's actually shocking in some ways to think that these 2 sides aren't interested in working together to share even more money. grow the business and game, fans happy, everyone profits.

neelynugs is offline  
Old
12-21-2012, 10:27 AM
  #150
Ladyfan
Miss you Savvy !
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: next to the bench
Country: Scotland
Posts: 25,904
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by neelynugs View Post
it's actually shocking in some ways to think that these 2 sides aren't interested in working together to share even more money. grow the business and game, fans happy, everyone profits.
^ This ...I just don't get it.

Stupid idiots.

__________________
It's going to be a long Summer.
Ladyfan is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:42 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.