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Johan Franzen - Third Highest Goal Scorer Of 2004 Draft

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Old
12-21-2012, 04:59 AM
  #1
Claypool
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Johan Franzen - Third Highest Goal Scorer Of 2004 Draft

Just an interesting fact I found.

Franzen has 150 goals so far, good for #3 behind Ovechkin (339) and Malkin (208)

Andrew Ladd is #4 with 120 goals.

If you would have told me back in 2004 the Red Wings would get the third highest goal scorer in the draft that year I would have called you a liar.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2004e.html

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12-21-2012, 06:09 AM
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Can't be possible he's that good. I've heard from reliable sources that he's just a lazy floter and he sucks.

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12-21-2012, 06:27 AM
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Does this mean we no longer have to settle for a 5th rounder and we can move up to a 4th if we trade him.

It surprises me how little some fans value their own players. It's almost like they just need something to complain about so they stretch for anything. I'm happy he's a Wing and believe he will be one for a long time.

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12-21-2012, 08:19 AM
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Trade him. Franzen is lazy and he sucks!

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12-21-2012, 08:22 AM
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In all honesty though, I do get the desire to have him play on the 2nd line instead of the 1st.

Or rather, the outcry to acquire another scorer for Pav so that Franzen can play on the 2nd line with perhaps less pressure and thus play his game more effectively.

It would just be friggin sweet is all.

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12-21-2012, 10:37 AM
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Franzen *is* lazy and a coaster for way too much of his playing time. He's been coasting on his supposed playoff prowess from 2008 for too long. But we haven't seen that Franzen in years. The guy who takes it hard to the net, can dangle with the best of them, who takes constant high quality shots.

I saw glimpses of that when he was put on the fourth line last year. He seemed to play harder even if he wasn't scoring. But for some reason or another when he's on the top6 he just seems to float around waiting for someone else to feed him.

This is a cherry picked statistics, one that makes him look good. "He's third highest!" Well show me the rest of the draft that year. Is he in some good company? Was that a weak draft year? What about the years after that, any players kicking his ass? He's "up there" with Malkin and Ovechkin, but he's far below them. Or when we account for games played in the NHL since being drafted, we see that other plays have way more many points per game, which to me is far more important. David Krejci has more points than Franzen with 100 less games played. Yeah. Mike Green, 70 less games, only 24 less points. And on and on and on.

Very cherry picked.

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12-21-2012, 11:47 AM
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Franzen does not deserve his nickname anymore. Or it should be changed to, "The Lazy Mule."

The fact that Babcock has to constantly demote him tells me what kind of work ethic he has now. The guy got paid and he has mentally checked out.

Lets give him a gold star for being on Datsyuk or Z's wing.

Should have traded Franzen and gotten Semin instead. More talent and atleast his reputation for being lazy isn't warranted and is just a Canadian conspiracy theory.


Last edited by WingedWheel1987: 12-21-2012 at 12:28 PM.
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12-21-2012, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flowah View Post
Franzen *is* lazy and a coaster for way too much of his playing time. He's been coasting on his supposed playoff prowess from 2008 for too long. But we haven't seen that Franzen in years. The guy who takes it hard to the net, can dangle with the best of them, who takes constant high quality shots.

I saw glimpses of that when he was put on the fourth line last year. He seemed to play harder even if he wasn't scoring. But for some reason or another when he's on the top6 he just seems to float around waiting for someone else to feed him.

This is a cherry picked statistics, one that makes him look good. "He's third highest!" Well show me the rest of the draft that year. Is he in some good company? Was that a weak draft year? What about the years after that, any players kicking his ass? He's "up there" with Malkin and Ovechkin, but he's far below them. Or when we account for games played in the NHL since being drafted, we see that other plays have way more many points per game, which to me is far more important. David Krejci has more points than Franzen with 100 less games played. Yeah. Mike Green, 70 less games, only 24 less points. And on and on and on.

Very cherry picked.
Bull schit. He has been constantly kept off from the 1st power-play that is the easiest place to score goals. Tomas Holmström has been standing there all these years "in his spot". Then Z and Dats have been the two other forwards. Franzen has been put there, only if one of those three is missing.

That just impresses me more. He has scored his points without 1st PP and 2008 Cup run happened from 2nd line with Filppula and Samuelsson. Not the world's best linemates.

This Franzen hate is just un-believe-able.

I'm quite sure his body has been pretty banged and this lockout does nothing but good for him. +20 goals in 48 games as the 1st PP screener first time in his career. You read it from here.

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12-21-2012, 01:00 PM
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Franzen lacks intensity. He lacks consistency. He lacks guts.
He's a big, strong guy who skates well and has a wicked wristshot <<---- That's awesome.

But he lacks intensity. When he gets mad, he doesn't funnel his energy...he loses his cool. He's average, at best, in the corners. He rarely uses size and strength to punish defensemen. He lacks vision and is a poor passer.

It's too bad about this whole Zetterberg-Brunner thing. Because Brunner seemed tailor-made for Datsyuk. And Franzen is better with Z.

Ah well. Datsyuk may be finished in Detroit anyhow.

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12-21-2012, 01:02 PM
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I don't get this whole "Franzen is lazy" talk. Is it because his style of game looks lazy? Did Babcock call him out? Sure he has his ups and downs (his are a little more extreme), but the guy isn't "lazy" just because he could be more than what he is. He was supposed to be a 3rd liner but he's become a 30 goal scorer. Not to mention the guy is getting paid less than $4 million per.

In the Preds series, for example, Franzen wasn't productive enough offensively, but the guy was busting his ass and laying some big hits.

You guys want to trade Franzen? What improvement would we get from that? An even smaller forward core...

The Mule isn't some amazing player but he would be a perfect 2nd line forward with Zetterberg. Too bad KH refuses to give Datsyuk some 1st line talent on both wings.

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12-21-2012, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
Franzen does not deserve his nickname anymore. Or it should be changed to, "The Lazy Mule."

The fact that Babcock has to constantly demote him tells me what kind of work ethic he has now. The guy got paid and he has mentally checked out.

Lets give him a gold star for being on Datsyuk or Z's wing.

Should have traded Franzen and gotten Semin instead. More talent and atleast his reputation for being lazy isn't warranted and is just a Canadian conspiracy theory.
You aren't serious here, are you?

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12-21-2012, 02:16 PM
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You aren't serious here, are you?
Half serious. The guy is far less lazy than Franzen and way more talented. The way the Canadian media eviscerated the guy was hilarious and almost completely unwarranted.

Franzen has built a reputation where he is expected to play hard in the playoffs. Getting demoted in the playoffs is the kiss of death for me ever wanting to see Franzen ever wearing the Winged Wheel again. If i believed in God, I would pray to him so that Franzen decides to retire or is traded. He needs to drive his Dodge Ram and his "serious contract" out of Detroit.

Franzen is the only player i actually dislike on the Wings. The rest have their issues, but i have never questioned the work ethic of Justin Abdelkader and when you start to half *** it like Franzen does after you get paid that kind of money, well you are on my **** list.


Last edited by WingedWheel1987: 12-21-2012 at 02:29 PM.
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12-21-2012, 03:09 PM
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Where I get frustrated with him is he will go on a streak of a few games lighting up the net and playing great power forward. Then he's gone for 7 games and you see he's not playing the body and reaching for the puck.

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12-21-2012, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
Half serious. The guy is far less lazy than Franzen and way more talented. The way the Canadian media eviscerated the guy was hilarious and almost completely unwarranted.

Franzen has built a reputation where he is expected to play hard in the playoffs. Getting demoted in the playoffs is the kiss of death for me ever wanting to see Franzen ever wearing the Winged Wheel again. If i believed in God, I would pray to him so that Franzen decides to retire or is traded. He needs to drive his Dodge Ram and his "serious contract" out of Detroit.

Franzen is the only player i actually dislike on the Wings. The rest have their issues, but i have never questioned the work ethic of Justin Abdelkader and when you start to half *** it like Franzen does after you get paid that kind of money, well you are on my **** list.
You act like Franzen purposely scores on his own net

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12-21-2012, 04:09 PM
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Franzen has one of the best contracts in the league for what he provides and the cap hit. You guys can float out whatever you want about him but this is yet another point that says he is far more consistent than anybody gives him credit for.

But some of you're probably right and Franzen doesn't try harder than the other 290 players drafted in his year.

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12-21-2012, 04:20 PM
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By the way if the season does ever start, I really want Franzen and Zetterberg to play on the same line.

Mike Ilitch's kid should cover his insurance so he can go to Zug and get a head start. I am only half joking, what is the rule on that? I remember reading that Zetterberg's insurance is basically covered by some big fan over there. I have suggested actually getting relationships with some overseas team beofre. CSKA would be a cool one and Fedorov is there now and still has a realtionship with the Wings despite what a lot of people think. But looking at some of our prospect backlog, it wouldn't be a bad deal to stash a Nedomlel or someone with Zug next year.

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12-21-2012, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by TS Quint View Post
Where I get frustrated with him is he will go on a streak of a few games lighting up the net and playing great power forward. Then he's gone for 7 games and you see he's not playing the body and reaching for the puck.
Quess what. usually this is because of injury. Everybody suffers and plays stupid at injured. Except Yzerman.

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12-21-2012, 07:24 PM
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Where I get frustrated with him is he will go on a streak of a few games lighting up the net and playing great power forward. Then he's gone for 7 games and you see he's not playing the body and reaching for the puck.
You're describing the plight of nearly every "goal scorer" out there outside of the truly elite guys like Stamkos that always light it up.

Ryder was dogged for being inconsistent in Montreal. Then he found a nice revival in Boston and his best year in Dallas. Neal was dogged for being inconsistent in Dallas. Hell, he was SO inconsistent they traded him.

These are top 6 guys that have a knack for the net but can totally frustrate you when they don't score. Williams for LA. Michalek in Ottawa. Hell, even Bobby Ryan drives some Ducks fans nuts. The tale of Franzen is one well-known throughout the league. It sucks when your scorer doesn't score.

When if you score 30 a year, that means on average, there's 52 games you don't score. Even more when you start adding in multi-goal games. But what Franzen has done, since 2007, is score 0.4 goals per game in the regular season. That's over a sample of 323 games. The "inconsistency" and "azy" issues that plagues him is a reputation perpetuated by a handful ON THESE VERY FORUMS that post in every Franzen thread as if it is fact.

He's a steady guy who will net you about 30 goals a year like clockwork for the last 5 years. Frustrating in a #firstworldproblem kind of way.

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12-21-2012, 07:30 PM
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So I guess Mike Babcock reads HFboards and demotes him because of my posts.

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12-21-2012, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
So I guess Mike Babcock reads HFboards and demotes him because of my posts.
That's weird, because when people bring up his excellent stats, they say "It's because he plays on the first line with Datsyuk!" I guess Babcock keeps playing him in top line minutes and feeding him powerplay time because he's so lazy. Ah yes, that argument cuts both ways and hold no weight.

So Babcock sent a message a few times. Okay. We're talking about a sample of 5 years where he's been pretty much one of our most consistent scorers, but he can't evade attacks for being lazy.

I maintain, as I always have, that it's impossible to score 30 goals a year in the NHL and be lazy. Period. It's particularly hard if you have the skillset Franzen does. That guy works his ass off for those goals. He's not Jagr. He's not Malkin. He's not Stamkos.

I'm surprised he does as well as he does, honestly.

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12-21-2012, 07:51 PM
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That's weird, because when people bring up his excellent stats, they say "It's because he plays on the first line with Datsyuk!" I guess Babcock keeps playing him in top line minutes and feeding him powerplay time because he's so lazy. Ah yes, that argument cuts both ways and hold no weight.

So Babcock sent a message a few times. Okay. We're talking about a sample of 5 years where he's been pretty much one of our most consistent scorers, but he can't evade attacks for being lazy.

I maintain, as I always have, that it's impossible to score 30 goals a year in the NHL and be lazy. Period. It's particularly hard if you have the skillset Franzen does. That guy works his ass off for those goals. He's not Jagr. He's not Malkin. He's not Stamkos.

I'm surprised he does as well as he does, honestly.
Amen Bench. He also does it for just a 3.95 million cap hit.

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12-21-2012, 07:54 PM
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Franzen didn't start being the lazy Franzen we know and love until after the second trip to the cup. He tore his ACL and after that he got progressively worse in terms of giving 100% effort on a consistent basis. What is Babcock supposed to do with a guy with a life time contract? Ken holland wouldn't trade Justin Abdelkader for Sidney Crosby. Babcock has no choice but to play Franzen. The fact that Babcock demoted him even with the contract and Holland's refusal to move players is kind of incredible. You can create a very ugly situation when you punish core players who realize they aren't going anywhere.

The guy was dogging it against Nashville. I remember one play in particular where the puck got sent into the boards in the wings defensive zone. Franzen looked at the puck and just stood there and watched a Nashville player retrieve the puck which allowed Nashville to maintain possession. I nearly had a stroke when I saw that happen.

Can you imagine the **** storm that would happen if Datsyuk or Z got demoted to the third line? I know it will never happen, but Franzen is supposed to be part of that core and being demoted once is one too many times, especially in the playoffs.

Franzen's gutless play is not some kind of HFBoards meme. It is very real and very frustrating to watch.

What makes this situation worse is the Wings lost Marian Hossa because of Franzen. I don't blame Holland since Franzen was playing like a monster at the time and you should take care of your homegrown guys in that situation, but the guy is making Ken Holland look like a chump when he decides to take a vacation during the playoffs before the Wings are eliminated.

You put Franzen on the Preds with somebody not named Datsyuk centering him, lets see how many goals "the mule" scores with the effort he has been giving as of late. That is what makes it so bad. You know the talent is there.

You don't get to not show up for weeks when you get a lifetime contract or not give 100% during the playoffs. You got 43 million dollars. Suck it up.


Last edited by WingedWheel1987: 12-21-2012 at 08:15 PM.
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12-21-2012, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Bench View Post

I maintain, as I always have, that it's impossible to score 30 goals a year in the NHL and be lazy. Period. It's particularly hard if you have the skillset Franzen does. That guy works his ass off for those goals. He's not Jagr. He's not Malkin. He's not Stamkos.

I'm surprised he does as well as he does, honestly.
What a load.
He doesn't work his ass off. If Franzen worked half as hard as Datsyuk or Zetterberg he'd be a force.

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12-21-2012, 08:50 PM
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But some of you're probably right and Franzen doesn't try harder than the other 290 players drafted in his year.
What does his draft position have to do with his effort?
You know when the Franzen floater emerged? When his lifetime contract began.

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12-21-2012, 08:55 PM
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Make sure you listen to Boudreau at the end:



I'm not defending his stupid penalties (especially the spearing) but how do you call that lazy? They're down 2 goals and Franzy is busting his ass out there.

The blind hate for the guy is getting a little ridiculous, reading this thread makes it sound like Franzen just takes a **** on the ice while everyone else is playing.

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