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Old
12-20-2012, 10:20 PM
  #501
McSorleyStick
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Originally Posted by Hades View Post
You can eat **** and still look good if you train well. I think eating **** is bad for your health though, that's why you should strive to have a good diet.

Also when it comes to training, consistency is key. Don't train for a month and then take 2 weeks ago.
If you have a fast metabolism, yes


I dont have a slow metabolism, but Im not blessed woth a fast one either

A few years ago, I started seeing result when I cut OJ from my diet

Yeah, just OJ

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12-20-2012, 10:49 PM
  #502
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Originally Posted by McSorleyStick View Post
If you have a fast metabolism, yes


I dont have a slow metabolism, but Im not blessed woth a fast one either

A few years ago, I started seeing result when I cut OJ from my diet

Yeah, just OJ
I would say if I cut soft drinks/high sugar juices from my diet i'd be already significantly better so what you're saying isn't surprising.

A lot of people often overlook the drinks. In a lot of cases cutting a few pounds can be from what you drink rather than redoing entire diet.

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12-20-2012, 10:56 PM
  #503
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Easiest thing to do to lose weight is to not drink your calories.

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12-21-2012, 03:41 AM
  #504
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Originally Posted by Galchenyuk94 View Post
Easiest thing to do to lose weight is to not drink your calories.
Obese people got to a point of obesity for a reason. Cutting anything from their diet is tough. For you, it may be easier to cut the juices or soft drinks, may be different for others. Maybe other people have an easier time cutting chips or cookies rather than soft drinks.
Bottom line is, as previously mentioned, it all comes down to nutrition (which essentially means whatever you fuel your body with).

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12-21-2012, 03:44 AM
  #505
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You work at CrossFit Laval?
No, that is where I started training a few years back. I work at other CF.

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12-21-2012, 03:45 AM
  #506
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Originally Posted by Galchenyuk94 View Post
No point in continuing this argument, we don't agree
What I'm saying is very clear, simple and logical. Not sure why you stubbornly disagree.
You will not see gains from having a diet aimed majorly on fast food. Suggesting otherwise is not only wrong, but simply stupid.

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12-21-2012, 07:55 AM
  #507
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IMO calories in vs calories out in the single most important component of weight loss or muscle gain. Where those calories come from are largely irrelevant. Obviously eating healthier is better for you, but if you're in a calorie deficit and lifting, you'll lose weight and body fat. It's really as simple as that. It's obviously easier to stay within your caloric deficit while eating healthy as those foods tend to have less calories, however, if your maintenance is 2200 calories and you are eating 2500-3000 calories from chicken, fish, or what have you, it will make little difference, the end result is you're taking in more calories than your body can burn.

1. calories in vs calories out
2. 1-1.5 grams of protein per lb of lean body mass
3. strength training

These are the only 3 things that matter when changing body composition. This has been proven a million times over.

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12-21-2012, 08:19 AM
  #508
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Just took this pic, you guys need any tips?


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12-21-2012, 10:51 AM
  #509
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Anyone in need of dietary tips should really go see a specialist. I went, she did some tests to find out how my metabolism worked and gave me hints on what to eat and what not to. It worked immensely. I've shed 56 lbs. up to now without ever really feeling I was on a diet.

Bottom line, if you want to lose weight AND KEEP IT DOWN, you need to change your eating habits, not just for a while, not just while dieting, FOREVER. My biggest dietary flaw was bread. I now seldom eat bread and don't miss it. If I had been dieting without changing my habits, I'd have gone right back to eating a lot of it, and weighing a lot more.

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12-21-2012, 10:56 AM
  #510
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
IMO calories in vs calories out in the single most important component of weight loss or muscle gain. Where those calories come from are largely irrelevant. Obviously eating healthier is better for you, but if you're in a calorie deficit and lifting, you'll lose weight and body fat. It's really as simple as that. It's obviously easier to stay within your caloric deficit while eating healthy as those foods tend to have less calories, however, if your maintenance is 2200 calories and you are eating 2500-3000 calories from chicken, fish, or what have you, it will make little difference, the end result is you're taking in more calories than your body can burn.

1. calories in vs calories out
2. 1-1.5 grams of protein per lb of lean body mass
3. strength training

These are the only 3 things that matter when changing body composition. This has been proven a million times over.
I just don't see how anyone could eat 200 grams a day of protein.

That's equivalent to 5 tuna cans a day, 5 chicken breasts,25 cans of black beans, 24 oz of steak, 24 eggs, 20 glasses of milk, or 20 small yogurts.

You need to be dedicated and rich.


Last edited by DAChampion: 12-21-2012 at 11:22 AM.
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12-21-2012, 11:01 AM
  #511
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
IMO calories in vs calories out in the single most important component of weight loss or muscle gain. Where those calories come from are largely irrelevant. Obviously eating healthier is better for you, but if you're in a calorie deficit and lifting, you'll lose weight and body fat. It's really as simple as that. It's obviously easier to stay within your caloric deficit while eating healthy as those foods tend to have less calories, however, if your maintenance is 2200 calories and you are eating 2500-3000 calories from chicken, fish, or what have you, it will make little difference, the end result is you're taking in more calories than your body can burn.

1. calories in vs calories out
2. 1-1.5 grams of protein per lb of lean body mass
3. strength training

These are the only 3 things that matter when changing body composition. This has been proven a million times over.
It's not that simple. You need all three macros, and depending on your objective, your consumption of macros will change.
Also, your body will burn more calories digesting certain foods.

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12-21-2012, 11:20 AM
  #512
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
What I'm saying is very clear, simple and logical. Not sure why you stubbornly disagree.
You will not see gains from having a diet aimed majorly on fast food. Suggesting otherwise is not only wrong, but simply stupid.
When did I ever promote a fast food diet? I said you can fit junk in your diet, as long as it fits in your required macros and are hitting your caloric and protein requirement. Your diet can't be comprised of a whole lot of junk if you do that

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12-21-2012, 11:23 AM
  #513
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I just don't see how anyone could eat 20 grams a day of protein.

That's equivalent to 5 tuna cans a day, 5 chicken breasts,25 cans of black beans, 24 oz of steak, 24 eggs, 20 glasses of milk, or 20 small yogurts.

You need to be dedicated and rich.
I think you mean 200, not 20.

It's why most people supplement with whey. It's fast, easy, cheap and convenient.

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12-21-2012, 11:31 AM
  #514
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Obese people got to a point of obesity for a reason. Cutting anything from their diet is tough. For you, it may be easier to cut the juices or soft drinks, may be different for others. Maybe other people have an easier time cutting chips or cookies rather than soft drinks.
Bottom line is, as previously mentioned, it all comes down to nutrition (which essentially means whatever you fuel your body with).
Fair enough. FOR ME, not drinking your calories is the easiest way to lose weight.

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12-21-2012, 11:55 AM
  #515
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I just don't see how anyone could eat 200 grams a day of protein.

That's equivalent to 5 tuna cans a day, 5 chicken breasts,25 cans of black beans, 24 oz of steak, 24 eggs, 20 glasses of milk, or 20 small yogurts.

You need to be dedicated and rich.
~28 grams in a liter of milk x 2
~24 grams in a scoop of whey x 2

I admit that without that I'd have a hard time hitting and surpassing 200 grams day in and day out.

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12-21-2012, 01:54 PM
  #516
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It's not that simple. You need all three macros, and depending on your objective, your consumption of macros will change.
Also, your body will burn more calories digesting certain foods.
I don't want to get into it, but it's precisely that simple. The calories burnt during digestion are basically negligible, not a significant difference here.

These are the three basic tenants. It makes no difference if you get 200 calories from an ice cream sandwich or a chicken sandwich. Providing you are lifting and getting the desired calories, whether that be a surplus or deficit.

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12-21-2012, 01:58 PM
  #517
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I just don't see how anyone could eat 200 grams a day of protein.

That's equivalent to 5 tuna cans a day, 5 chicken breasts,25 cans of black beans, 24 oz of steak, 24 eggs, 20 glasses of milk, or 20 small yogurts.

You need to be dedicated and rich.
It's easy. A bowl of oatmeal, 4 or 5 egg whites in the am, maybe some whey in your oatmeal. A protein shake or something around 10am, a lunch with chicken breasts, fish, or steak, some almonds in the afternoon or whatever. Mid afternoon shake or another light snack, ie tuna. Then supper, with some eggs and omega 3's before hitting the fart sack.

I prefer to get as much as I can from natural food as protein shakes aren't very satiating, but if it helps in the beginning, there's no harm.

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12-21-2012, 02:24 PM
  #518
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Originally Posted by Galchenyuk94 View Post
When did I ever promote a fast food diet? I said you can fit junk in your diet, as long as it fits in your required macros and are hitting your caloric and protein requirement. Your diet can't be comprised of a whole lot of junk if you do that
Yes, but this whole ''debate'' started by saying cardio is the most important aspect of training, not nutrition. I said nutrition is the most important aspect, by far, about 80% ahead. For some reason, you argued against it without realizing you actually agreed with me.
You keep talking about controlled portions and reaching your caloric requirements. That is what nutrition is. You said you can eat junk food and still get gains (hinting that cardio is what will make you lose weight, not nutrition). I said sure, but it has to be a very limited amount of junk food throughout your week.

Basically, eat well, cheat once in a while during the week. That is the key. Then comes the exercises.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galchenyuk94 View Post
I think you mean 200, not 20.

It's why most people supplement with whey. It's fast, easy, cheap and convenient.
He meant 2000+.

Quote:
Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
I don't want to get into it, but it's precisely that simple. The calories burnt during digestion are basically negligible, not a significant difference here.

These are the three basic tenants. It makes no difference if you get 200 calories from an ice cream sandwich or a chicken sandwich. Providing you are lifting and getting the desired calories, whether that be a surplus or deficit.
Well actually no. You are no longer just talking about calories, now you're talking about insufficient macros. Your ice cream sandwich will bring you close to no protein and fat, or very little, but have plenty of carbs. A chicken sandwich will be a more well balanced meal.

Moral of the story, junk food is not the epitome of evil for food. That's grossly exaggerated, however, it doesn't mean eating donuts in the morning, pizza for lunch and KFC at night, is good. You need your macros in line. At that point, sure, if you want to respect your calorie requirements by eating fast food alone, it won't change much. If we bring up the health issue, then it's a whole other story.

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12-21-2012, 02:25 PM
  #519
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
It's easy. A bowl of oatmeal, 4 or 5 egg whites in the am, maybe some whey in your oatmeal. A protein shake or something around 10am, a lunch with chicken breasts, fish, or steak, some almonds in the afternoon or whatever. Mid afternoon shake or another light snack, ie tuna. Then supper, with some eggs and omega 3's before hitting the fart sack.

I prefer to get as much as I can from natural food as protein shakes aren't very satiating, but if it helps in the beginning, there's no harm.
Unfortunately, this is hard for the common man to follow.

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12-21-2012, 02:42 PM
  #520
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Unfortunately, this is hard for the common man to follow.
I meant 200 grams a day of protein, and yes these plans sound extremely hard to follow, to eat the same boring thing every day, and to cook the same thing every night, and to prepare a 10am, a noon, and a 2pm meal every morning to put into brown bags.

Honestly 1 or 2 cans a die of tuna sounds like a mercury poisoning prescription. I take in 1 or 2 cans a week and I worry.

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12-21-2012, 02:42 PM
  #521
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
It's not that simple. You need all three macros, and depending on your objective, your consumption of macros will change.
Also, your body will burn more calories digesting certain foods.

It's still calories in vs. calories out.

If your eat more protein your body increases energy expenditure slightly more compared to eating carbs or fats -> calories out part increases. But calories in is still the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
I don't want to get into it, but it's precisely that simple. The calories burnt during digestion are basically negligible, not a significant difference here.

These are the three basic tenants. It makes no difference if you get 200 calories from an ice cream sandwich or a chicken sandwich. Providing you are lifting and getting the desired calories, whether that be a surplus or deficit.
Thermogenic effect of protein is around 20-30&, carbs 5-10% and few percent for fat iirc.

Usually it's around 10% of total caloric intake that gets lost/used due to thermogenic effect of food. Not that much but it adds up in the long run.

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12-21-2012, 04:47 PM
  #522
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Yes, but this whole ''debate'' started by saying cardio is the most important aspect of training, not nutrition. I said nutrition is the most important aspect, by far, about 80% ahead. For some reason, you argued against it without realizing you actually agreed with me.
You keep talking about controlled portions and reaching your caloric requirements. That is what nutrition is. You said you can eat junk food and still get gains (hinting that cardio is what will make you lose weight, not nutrition). I said sure, but it has to be a very limited amount of junk food throughout your week.

Basically, eat well, cheat once in a while during the week. That is the key. Then comes the exercises.



He meant 2000+.



Well actually no. You are no longer just talking about calories, now you're talking about insufficient macros. Your ice cream sandwich will bring you close to no protein and fat, or very little, but have plenty of carbs. A chicken sandwich will be a more well balanced meal.

Moral of the story, junk food is not the epitome of evil for food. That's grossly exaggerated, however, it doesn't mean eating donuts in the morning, pizza for lunch and KFC at night, is good. You need your macros in line. At that point, sure, if you want to respect your calorie requirements by eating fast food alone, it won't change much. If we bring up the health issue, then it's a whole other story.

No one is suggesting eating fast food alone or sugessting that it is an excellent measure towards great health. What I am saying, is that if you're within your caloric range, with proper protein requirements and lifting, it won't make a substantial difference on gains and it won't. Obviously it's unsustainable to eat complete takeout and stay within those ranges and most importantly remain healthy.

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12-21-2012, 04:59 PM
  #523
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Originally Posted by kemisti View Post
It's still calories in vs. calories out.

If your eat more protein your body increases energy expenditure slightly more compared to eating carbs or fats -> calories out part increases. But calories in is still the same.



Thermogenic effect of protein is around 20-30&, carbs 5-10% and few percent for fat iirc.

Usually it's around 10% of total caloric intake that gets lost/used due to thermogenic effect of food. Not that much but it adds up in the long run.
Sure and that's why I said to eat 1-1.5 grams of protien per lean lb of body mass. The three things that matter are exactly what I said.

calories in vs calories out
protein requirements
lifting

My ice cream sandwich example was an example to the extreme, noone is going to have a diet exclusively made of ice cream sandwiches, but if your meeting the rest of the requirements, having an ice cream sandwich isn't going to hurt, even if you do it everyday as long as it fits in with the rest of your requirements, if it's additional, it's going to make a difference. The same as any other choice.

The physics of calories in vs calories out can not be denied. It's the most important aspect, it's why bulkers are able to make substantial gains while eating mostly garbage, it's not the fact that their eating garbage, it's the fact that it puts them over their BMR that is doing the work, along with lifting and meeting the protein required.

You can make leaner gains, but it's likely to take longer, but generally healthier and safest. Most people don't stay in top shape all year round.

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12-21-2012, 05:05 PM
  #524
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I meant 200 grams a day of protein, and yes these plans sound extremely hard to follow, to eat the same boring thing every day, and to cook the same thing every night, and to prepare a 10am, a noon, and a 2pm meal every morning to put into brown bags.

Honestly 1 or 2 cans a die of tuna sounds like a mercury poisoning prescription. I take in 1 or 2 cans a week and I worry.
It was an example of 1 day, not everyday has to be the same. Eating healthy can be fun too. With my plans I eat what I want, which allows for some pizza, or a burger from time to time.

The key is to stay in range of your calories and lift, lift, lift. How you get there is up to you. Eating 6 meal is easiest for me, but not the be all end all. If you prefer 3 meals, 2 at 500 cals a piece and one big 1k calorie meal, you're find to do that too.

For me, I basically make my days worth of food the night before and take it to work. I have enough there to be eating non stop and it really isn't difficult or consuming at all, but you have to want it or it will seem like work, but when the results pour in, you'll realize how much it's worth it.

Chicken breasts can be made a fajita and so on. Boring food gets old quick, but there are ways to spice it.

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12-21-2012, 05:11 PM
  #525
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
It was an example of 1 day, not everyday has to be the same. Eating healthy can be fun too. With my plans I eat what I want, which allows for some pizza, or a burger from time to time.

The key is to stay in range of your calories and lift, lift, lift. How you get there is up to you. Eating 6 meal is easiest for me, but not the be all end all. If you prefer 3 meals, 2 at 500 cals a piece and one big 1k calorie meal, you're find to do that too.

For me, I basically make my days worth of food the night before and take it to work. I have enough there to be eating non stop and it really isn't difficult or consuming at all, but you have to want it or it will seem like work, but when the results pour in, you'll realize how much it's worth it.

Chicken breasts can be made a fajita and so on. Boring food gets old quick, but there are ways to spice it.
Truly, one of the best ways to make those staples like chicken breast and tuna a bit more fun is putting some effort into learning how to cook. Not just learning some recipes, but actually taking an interest in what makes food tick and learning how to come up with new dishes on the fly.

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