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NHL Lockout Discusion XXXIII: It's the same old song. **MOD WARNING POST 274

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Old
12-21-2012, 03:54 PM
  #951
Marc the Habs Fan
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http://www.csnwashington.com/hockey-...dissolve-union

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If the NHLPA’s 30-member executive board elects to file that disclaimer, the union will be dissolved and players will have the right to file individual class-action antitrust lawsuits against the National Hockey League.

Assuming the union’s negotiating committee files the disclaimer of interest, could there be more than 700 lawsuits filed by NHL players in the coming days and weeks?

“It’s very possible that could happen,” Capitals forward Troy Brouwer told CSNWashington.com. “Every player has the right to file a lawsuit if they want to. I’m assuming most players will because of the situation. I can’t see why guys wouldn’t follow through with it if nothing can be resolved.”

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12-21-2012, 03:55 PM
  #952
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The PA seems to have regained the high ground, and the owners are looking like stubborn children with nothing but a whiny "take it or leave it" stance to fall back on. It looks like an end game of some kind is coming, but it is hard to say what it is. If Fehr's ultimate goal (and I'm not saying that it is, just wondering about it) is to eliminate the salary cap, might the way that things are going at present not suit his long term aim?

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12-21-2012, 03:56 PM
  #953
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Troy, that's not how it works, if you have 700 suits most of them will never be heard. And lawsuit costs money.

You combine your best suits into a mega-suit, you goofball.

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12-21-2012, 03:56 PM
  #954
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You guys are no fun...this isn't about hockey any more its about entertaining me

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12-21-2012, 03:57 PM
  #955
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Originally Posted by guyincognito View Post
Troy, that's not how it works, if you have 700 suits most of them will never be heard. And lawsuit costs money.

You combine your best suits into a mega-suit, you goofball.
that should be: Troy Brouwer, Esq.

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12-21-2012, 03:58 PM
  #956
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Could the clubs just fire the players?
Would they be forced to pay the players a certain amount of money if they do?

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12-21-2012, 03:59 PM
  #957
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Originally Posted by guyincognito View Post
Troy, that's not how it works, if you have 700 suits most of them will never be heard. And lawsuit costs money.

You combine your best suits into a mega-suit, you goofball.
Most of them don't even know how it works.

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12-21-2012, 04:02 PM
  #958
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Not to mention, nothing that happened before the players becomes independent contractors counts, as antitrust goes. So you have to wait for them to do something wrong to YOU before you can enter into a suit.

Since nothing's happening and the majority of contracts have already been signed.....

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12-21-2012, 04:05 PM
  #959
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Could the league not dissolve and reopen under a new entity with a new set of business practices, forcing the players to interview for positions?

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Old
12-21-2012, 04:06 PM
  #960
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Screw this lockout. I'm glad I live in an AHL city (Hamilton). I'm off to watch some real hockey for a change.

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12-21-2012, 04:07 PM
  #961
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Why wouldn't players follow through? Ummm, because lawsuits aren't free you idiot.

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12-21-2012, 04:07 PM
  #962
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kihei View Post
The PA seems to have regained the high ground, and the owners are looking like stubborn children with nothing but a whiny "take it or leave it" stance to fall back on. It looks like an end game of some kind is coming, but it is hard to say what it is. If Fehr's ultimate goal (and I'm not saying that it is, just wondering about it) is to eliminate the salary cap, might the way that things are going at present not suit his long term aim?
How so? They appear to be going down the road of disclaiming interest as a negotiating ploy rather than as a real intention to dissolve the union.

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12-21-2012, 04:10 PM
  #963
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kihei View Post
The PA seems to have regained the high ground, and the owners are looking like stubborn children with nothing but a whiny "take it or leave it" stance to fall back on. It looks like an end game of some kind is coming, but it is hard to say what it is. If Fehr's ultimate goal (and I'm not saying that it is, just wondering about it) is to eliminate the salary cap, might the way that things are going at present not suit his long term aim?
Give me a break! That ship sailed long ago. No chance at that happening. It is going to take a long time for the players to correct public perception.

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12-21-2012, 04:11 PM
  #964
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And the doors have to be sued open in order for the antitrust claims to be made. It's hard to believe people are this stupid. And for the doors to be sued open they'd have to win (or the NHL lose) cases in every province and the US. I guess logic dictates that a single case could set precedent, but this is just too dense for me.

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12-21-2012, 04:11 PM
  #965
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This season is as good as done. As a fan, I need something that provides future protection against lockout. If players keep taking a stance and don't move from it and if we get some labor peace like in baseball, I am all for it.

I am neither pro owner nor pro players. But owners have been doing the same thing over and over again: keeping locking out players until their demands have been fulfilled. So its about time they too get a lesson.

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12-21-2012, 04:14 PM
  #966
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kihei View Post
The PA seems to have regained the high ground, and the owners are looking like stubborn children with nothing but a whiny "take it or leave it" stance to fall back on. It looks like an end game of some kind is coming, but it is hard to say what it is. If Fehr's ultimate goal (and I'm not saying that it is, just wondering about it) is to eliminate the salary cap, might the way that things are going at present not suit his long term aim?
First of all, there is no high ground. Don't let anyone fool you into thinking there is. No one comes out of this on the high ground. In fact both sides ground levels are lower than they were before this started.

Second of all, there is nothing whiny about this "take it or leave it" offer. The NHL has been negotiating off their own offer since September. 4 months. They have had enough and said this is what you got, if you want it you can take it and we can play. If you don't you can sit there, lose all your money and be poorer no matter what offer you take at the end of this.

This stand still right now is a direct result of Donald Fehr's doing. His sitting on his ass refusing to even acknowledge the current system the league has in place, for the last four months of this negotiations has left us here.

Once again, I am not going to sit here and try to say Gary Bettman is a saint and Donald Fehr is evil. But facts are facts, Donald Fehr pushed just a little to far with the NHL and here we are at a stand still and about to lose another season.

P.S. Those of you who keep saying, "they are too close to lose this season" continue to underestimate just how far the owners are willing to go to prove a point. Everyone talks about how the owners lowball offer to start these negotiations off "galvanized" the NHLPA, well Fehr's push, push, push tactics at the Player-Owner mettings a few weeks ago with the "moderate" owners did the same for their side.

If we are going to have a season, it is going to be because the NHLPA caves and accepts the NHL offer. Based on past actions, the owners and Bettman are done negotiating. Right or wrong.

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12-21-2012, 04:15 PM
  #967
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Originally Posted by MikeK View Post
Give me a break! That ship sailed long ago. No chance at that happening. It is going to take a long time for the players to correct public perception.
I think that you might be surprised at what the 'public perception' is to be honest. Most call in radio shows I have listened to have been pretty critical of both sides. I know on here the sentiment is probably running about 80% against the players but I'd say that from what I've heard on radios it's probably running in favour of the players.

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12-21-2012, 04:18 PM
  #968
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I really don't see how giving the permission to the PA executive to relieve themselves (Disclaimer of Interest) gives the players the upper hand or any leverage whatsoever. In fact, the litigation the NHL brought in NY ahead of this vote and the numerous tweets and subsequent comments by players further cement the leagues position that it is a ploy and a sham.

I felt all along the NHL had a game plan to deal with this which is why I firmly believe that, if a deal is going to get done, the deal will be eerily similar to the owners last , best offer. The only place I see them potentially moving is on CBA length.

This is a battle the players can not win. If the deal isn't done in time for the their to be a camp and a Jan 15ish start to the season, they will simply walk out to the podium, say game over and walk away.

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12-21-2012, 04:18 PM
  #969
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanSeguin View Post
First of all, there is no high ground. Don't let anyone fool you into thinking there is. No one comes out of this on the high ground. In fact both sides ground levels are lower than they were before this started.

Second of all, there is nothing whiny about this "take it or leave it" offer. The NHL has been negotiating off their own offer since September. 4 months. They have had enough and said this is what you got, if you want it you can take it and we can play. If you don't you can sit there, lose all your money and be poorer no matter what offer you take at the end of this.

This stand still right now is a direct result of Donald Fehr's doing. His sitting on his ass refusing to even acknowledge the current system the league has in place, for the last four months of this negotiations has left us here.

Once again, I am not going to sit here and try to say Gary Bettman is a saint and Donald Fehr is evil. But facts are facts, Donald Fehr pushed just a little to far with the NHL and here we are at a stand still and about to lose another season.

P.S. Those of you who keep saying, "they are too close to lose this season" continue to underestimate just how far the owners are willing to go to prove a point. Everyone talks about how the owners lowball offer to start these negotiations off "galvanized" the NHLPA, well Fehr's push, push, push tactics at the Player-Owner mettings a few weeks ago with the "moderate" owners did the same for their side.

If we are going to have a season, it is going to be because the NHLPA caves and accepts the NHL offer. Based on past actions, the owners and Bettman are done negotiating. Right or wrong.
I've been wrong on this before, but I continue to see the owners as businessmen who in the end will make a rational decision based on business reasons. I'm sure that they have all faced annoying people in other business deals. I don't think that they'' let their dislike of Fehr cloud their business judgment. But we'll see.

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12-21-2012, 04:20 PM
  #970
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanSeguin View Post
First of all, there is no high ground. Don't let anyone fool you into thinking there is. No one comes out of this on the high ground. In fact both sides ground levels are lower than they were before this started.

Second of all, there is nothing whiny about this "take it or leave it" offer. The NHL has been negotiating off their own offer since September. 4 months. They have had enough and said this is what you got, if you want it you can take it and we can play. If you don't you can sit there, lose all your money and be poorer no matter what offer you take at the end of this.

This stand still right now is a direct result of Donald Fehr's doing. His sitting on his ass refusing to even acknowledge the current system the league has in place, for the last four months of this negotiations has left us here.

Once again, I am not going to sit here and try to say Gary Bettman is a saint and Donald Fehr is evil. But facts are facts, Donald Fehr pushed just a little to far with the NHL and here we are at a stand still and about to lose another season.

P.S. Those of you who keep saying, "they are too close to lose this season" continue to underestimate just how far the owners are willing to go to prove a point. Everyone talks about how the owners lowball offer to start these negotiations off "galvanized" the NHLPA, well Fehr's push, push, push tactics at the Player-Owner mettings a few weeks ago with the "moderate" owners did the same for their side.

If we are going to have a season, it is going to be because the NHLPA caves and accepts the NHL offer. Based on past actions, the owners and Bettman are done negotiating. Right or wrong.
148% agree

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Old
12-21-2012, 04:21 PM
  #971
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
I've been wrong on this before, but I continue to see the owners as businessmen who in the end will make a rational decision based on business reasons. I'm sure that they have all faced annoying people in other business deals. I don't think that they'' let their dislike of Fehr cloud their business judgment. But we'll see.
This is the tactical error that the players side is banking on and, if they don't move from this position, will be left standing there stunned when Gary announces game over.

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12-21-2012, 04:22 PM
  #972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penalty Kill Icing View Post
This season is as good as done. As a fan, I need something that provides future protection against lockout. If players keep taking a stance and don't move from it and if we get some labor peace like in baseball, I am all for it.

I am neither pro owner nor pro players. But owners have been doing the same thing over and over again: keeping locking out players until their demands have been fulfilled. So its about time they too get a lesson.
Here is the one difference between the two....the two sides didn't ruin the sport completely.

If we miss another season, the players won't have to worry about caving to demands because they will be in jeopardy of losing it all.

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12-21-2012, 04:24 PM
  #973
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
I think that you might be surprised at what the 'public perception' is to be honest. Most call in radio shows I have listened to have been pretty critical of both sides. I know on here the sentiment is probably running about 80% against the players but I'd say that from what I've heard on radios it's probably running in favour of the players.
The perception here is.... NO ONE CARES.

Yeah, I'm sure it's slightly different in Canada, but here the people who care are the ones that put out the money and dissatisfaction is running at a pretty high clip. Both sides are playing a very dangerous game. Unlike last time, there is no justification for it to have gotten to this point.

Most of the NHL US model is dependent on schmucks putting out alot of money to keep the operations afloat. If the schmucks stop doing it, you have a problem. Me, I got out when the season ended because I didn't feel like paying up for something that may or may not happen. But there's plenty of other people who have their money tied up in this BS and I assure you that most of them are not happy about this.

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12-21-2012, 04:27 PM
  #974
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Originally Posted by Slatsmsg View Post
This is the tactical error that the players side is banking on and, if they don't move from this position, will be left standing there stunned when Gary announces game over.
Coming real soon. Now only a few weeks away.

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12-21-2012, 04:35 PM
  #975
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I have to think that Bettman would hate to have a 2nd season lost on his watch, it would leave a terrible legacy, something gets worked out here with both sides giving in to make this work.

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