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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

NHLPA exec board asks players to empower PA dissolution; NHL files w/Fed court+NLRB

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Old
12-21-2012, 03:38 PM
  #626
Stickmata
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Absolutely agree. I find it ironic that the NHL is pushing the Union to the brink of it's existence right now. Would the NHL rather operate it's business under the careful watch of antitrust law? I would say absolutely not. They need the Union in order to impliment market restrictions. They just don't want to work with the Union on setting it up.

I believe that is called wanting to eat your cake and have it too.
So you think the owners are best served having a bad union deal where they continue to earn a substandard return on investment?

I believe that is called stupidity and most billionaires didn't get that way by being stupid.

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12-21-2012, 03:45 PM
  #627
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So you think the owners are best served having a bad union deal where they continue to earn a substandard return on investment?

I believe that is called stupidity and most billionaires didn't get that way by being stupid.
I think it's better than the alternative, which would be zero overarching cost controls. Sure the Rangers, Leafs, Habs of the league would be fine, but pretty much every other team wouldn't be able to field a competitive lineup or would lose money trying.

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12-21-2012, 03:57 PM
  #628
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I think it's better than the alternative, which would be zero overarching cost controls. Sure the Rangers, Leafs, Habs of the league would be fine, but pretty much every other team wouldn't be able to field a competitive lineup or would lose money trying.
Over half the teams in the leagure are losing money. It is only a matter of time before those teams will fail. Having a league constantly dealing with Coyote like problems makes no sense. The owners need to fix the economics now or just let the league fall apart and reform as a shell of its current self.

It would make more sense for those teams to accept the nuclear option, go open market and lower their salaries dramatically. The product on the ice would suck, but you could make some money.

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12-21-2012, 04:01 PM
  #629
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Originally Posted by Stickmata View Post
Over half the teams in the leagure are losing money. It is only a matter of time before those teams will fail. Having a league constantly dealing with Coyote like problems makes no sense. The owners need to fix the economics now or just let the league fall apart and reform as a shell of its current self.

It would make more sense for those teams to accept the nuclear option, go open market and lower their salaries dramatically. The product on the ice would suck, but you could make some money.
It's an interesting thought exercise. Do we have any examples of truly free-market sports leagues that we can draw predictions from?

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12-21-2012, 04:07 PM
  #630
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Originally Posted by Stickmata View Post
Over half the teams in the leagure are losing money. It is only a matter of time before those teams will fail. Having a league constantly dealing with Coyote like problems makes no sense. The owners need to fix the economics now or just let the league fall apart and reform as a shell of its current self.

It would make more sense for those teams to accept the nuclear option, go open market and lower their salaries dramatically. The product on the ice would suck, but you could make some money.
Realistic revenue sharing, my friend....... Which is what the PA first proposed and were soundly rejected by the NHL.

Toronto, Boston, Philly, etc., need the other teams -- although maybe not the silly number of expansion teams the Bettman forced into the equation.

Players cannot be expected to shoulder the whole burden of limiting their earning power to the point that Phoenix can survive financially and compete.

Or should the players just eat it, so that there can be a league and Jeremy Jacobs and his buddies can get excessively more rich on their backs?

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12-21-2012, 04:08 PM
  #631
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Originally Posted by Stickmata View Post
Over half the teams in the leagure are losing money. It is only a matter of time before those teams will fail. Having a league constantly dealing with Coyote like problems makes no sense. The owners need to fix the economics now or just let the league fall apart and reform as a shell of its current self.

It would make more sense for those teams to accept the nuclear option, go open market and lower their salaries dramatically. The product on the ice would suck, but you could make some money.
Why would open market lower salaries dramatically? If elite players salaries go through the roof who is to say they would offset (or not) lower salaries for bottom 6 players and the such?

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Old
12-21-2012, 04:10 PM
  #632
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Originally Posted by Stickmata View Post
So you think the owners are best served having a bad union deal where they continue to earn a substandard return on investment?

I believe that is called stupidity and most billionaires didn't get that way by being stupid.
Nope, most inherited it.

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12-21-2012, 04:13 PM
  #633
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This is great news! Now it's time to file a disclaimer and sue the pants off Gary Bettman and his billionaire constituents.

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12-21-2012, 04:18 PM
  #634
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Yes it is. Since I smacked around the union busting right wing in the election I have time to check out the hockey boards. I must say I find the billionaire worship here a bit funny.

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This is great news! Now it's time to file a disclaimer and sue the pants off Gary Bettman and his billionaire constituents.
This will be far more entertaining than Bettman's NHL! I am looking forward to it!

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12-21-2012, 04:21 PM
  #635
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Yes it is. Since I smacked around the union busting right wing in the election I have time to check out the hockey boards. I must say I find the billionaire worship here a bit funny.
and the same goes for millionaire worship

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12-21-2012, 04:24 PM
  #636
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and the same goes for millionaire worship
I guess you just watch the luxury suites all game and not the players.

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12-21-2012, 04:24 PM
  #637
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and the same goes for millionaire worship
The millionaires entertain us, the billionaires try and screw us. Go millionaires!

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12-21-2012, 04:31 PM
  #638
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and the same goes for millionaire worship
The players do something that is entertaining. I wouldn't pay to watch some 80 year old billionaire do anything. Well anything except getting sued. I might pay to watch him get sued but most likely I would just snicker at the headlines when it is all said and done. Either way the league will never get another cent from me.

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12-21-2012, 04:31 PM
  #639
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I don't think Bettman is a "legal target" for suing under antitrust, he doesn't sign any SPCs...

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12-21-2012, 04:33 PM
  #640
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Originally Posted by flameaholic View Post
The millionaires entertain us, the billionaires try and screw us. Go millionaires!
Then why don't the millionaires make their own league where they cover the arena costs, travel expenses,
negotiate their TV deal (lol), etc. etc.?

And if a franchise loses money, the players can just take the loss out of their own paycheques. I'm sure they'll love that.


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12-21-2012, 04:47 PM
  #641
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Then why don't the millionaires make their own league where they cover the arena costs, travel expenses,
negotiate their TV deal (lol), etc. etc.?

And if a franchise loses money, the players can just take the loss out of their own paycheques. I'm sure they'll love that.
Funny you should ask. The owners are demanding that the players take those losses as we speak.

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The millionaires entertain us, the billionaires try and screw us. Go millionaires!
Exactly!!!

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Originally Posted by Canadian Guy View Post
I don't think Bettman is a "legal target" for suing under antitrust, he doesn't sign any SPCs...
True, but just maybe the owners lose in court and determine that Mr Bettman's vision is too costly.

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12-21-2012, 04:54 PM
  #642
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Originally Posted by schminksbro View Post
Funny you should ask. The owners are demanding that the players take those losses as we speak.
Bingo!

The owners solution to the poor performing teams is to have the players fix the problem.

Jeremy Jacobs et al needs to say "we'll (Boston) help Phoenix, but you guys have to as well". He's not going to say that though.

Phoenix may be struggling, but if I'm a betting man the amount of presents under the Jacob's family tree are still an embarrassment of riches regardless of the financial woes of the league!

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12-21-2012, 04:59 PM
  #643
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Originally Posted by schminksbro View Post
The players do something that is entertaining. I wouldn't pay to watch some 80 year old billionaire do anything. Well anything except getting sued. I might pay to watch him get sued but most likely I would just snicker at the headlines when it is all said and done. Either way the league will never get another cent from me.
Well, without those billionaires, you wouldn't be watching anything. The teams wouldn't be playing in state-of-the-art arenas around the country, there would be no TV contract, no NHL network, etc. You'd be driving down to your local college or rink to watch your 'millionaires' play. Of course without the luxury box revenue, the TV contract, etc. they wouldn't be millionaires anymore.

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12-21-2012, 05:01 PM
  #644
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Bingo!

The owners solution to the poor performing teams is to have the players fix the problem.

Jeremy Jacobs et al needs to say "we'll (Boston) help Phoenix, but you guys have to as well". He's not going to say that though.

Phoenix may be struggling, but if I'm a betting man the amount of presents under the Jacob's family tree are still an embarrassment of riches regardless of the financial woes of the league!
It would be pretty hard to fix any financial problems with the league without the players contributing. They take over half of revenue in salary and the other player related costs (travel, hotel, insurance) have gone up.

The cap floor has gone from $23M to $54M during the last CBA.

If you are going to cut costs, the players will feel it one way or another.

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12-21-2012, 05:06 PM
  #645
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
It would be pretty hard to fix any financial problems with the league without the players contributing. They take over half of revenue in salary and the other player related costs (travel, hotel, insurance) have gone up.

The cap floor has gone from $23M to $54M during the last CBA.

If you are going to cut costs, the players will feel it one way or another.
Agreed. I'm not for a second suggesting the players don't have to be a real and significant part of the solution. I just honestly think the owners are suggesting over and over again that the only real solution is for the player costs to go down -- it has to be a combination of the two. And IMO, some realistic look at revenue sharing has to be part of the long term solution -- not the only part, but part.

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12-21-2012, 05:13 PM
  #646
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Agreed. I'm not for a second suggesting the players don't have to be a real and significant part of the solution. I just honestly think the owners are suggesting over and over again that the only real solution is for the player costs to go down -- it has to be a combination of the two. And IMO, some realistic look at revenue sharing has to be part of the long term solution -- not the only part, but part.
The owners matched the amount of revenue sharing the PA was seeking (then the PA asked for more), has said they are ok with gradual decrease to 50/50 (for it to take 5 years over the life of a 6 year proposed NHLPA deal is a bit too gradual for their taste however) and even proposed a make whole fund which they certainly did not need to offer.

I think the owners have proposed a balanced approach. Sure revenue sharing needs to be a lot higher but where is the money going to come from? The rich teams won't agree to give up their most of their profits...

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12-21-2012, 05:31 PM
  #647
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I don't think Bettman is a "legal target" for suing under antitrust, he doesn't sign any SPCs...

He would be as the strategic head of the league. In the end, the teams employ him to lead their collective interests, so in a sense, he would be the head of the "cartel's" association.

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12-21-2012, 05:36 PM
  #648
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http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1310555


Please continue in the next thread, PA apparently has approved DOI.

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