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Expanding athletic eligibility to graduate school

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Old
12-20-2012, 08:36 PM
  #1
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Expanding athletic eligibility to graduate school

British college sports allow four years of undergraduate athletic eligibility as well as four years of graduate athletic eligibility. Maybe not all of British college sports would, but Oxford and Cambridge rowing does. Since some student-athletes take easy majors that require graduate education to get decent job prospects, perhaps letting students play for an university while in grad school (even law or med school) isn't a bad idea.

Would the NCAA be any better off with letting student-athletes enroll for four years of graduate school on a scholarship (or should I say stipend, if, somehow, they enrolled at the PhD level on an athletic scholarship) on top of four years of undergraduate eligibility?

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12-20-2012, 08:48 PM
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Nope

Most people leave after 3 or 4 years to the majors anyway

Some even leave after a year in college basketball

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Old
12-20-2012, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by ixcuincle View Post
Nope

Most people leave after 3 or 4 years to the majors anyway

Some even leave after a year in college basketball
Most football players? I always thought that NFL accounted for only a small percentage of the ones leaving after 3 or 4 years. There are a few hundred kids going to the majors, and a few dozen more for basketball, but I wouldn't exclude the possibility of student-athletes getting their breakout seasons as juniors, seniors or grad students. And 100+ Division I teams.

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12-20-2012, 09:57 PM
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Arent there like, 2-3 kids per each team (out of what, 100+ per team) that even have a chance at going pro?

I wouldn't mind this actually. Doubt it happens though.

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12-20-2012, 10:00 PM
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The Mormon schools would have players in their 30s

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12-20-2012, 10:05 PM
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How would an athlete find the time to be a legitimate graduate student? Most graduate students take classes in addition to doing research and teaching. This isn't even to mention the types of students athletes are and the easy programs they gravitate towards, which would be another problem with this idea.

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12-20-2012, 10:14 PM
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I'm pretty sure there already are a lot players in college football who are grad students. I don't think the NCAA really specifies whether it's undergrad or grad, you just have four years of eligibility total regardless.

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12-20-2012, 10:16 PM
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I wouldn't be opposed to giving two extra years on the scholarships redeemable at any point. Trying to have grad players play doesn't work though.

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12-20-2012, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by visor wearing goon View Post
How would an athlete find the time to be a legitimate graduate student? Most graduate students take classes in addition to doing research and teaching. This isn't even to mention the types of students athletes are and the easy programs they gravitate towards, which would be another problem with this idea.
RSEQ is probably the best example of a college conference with legitimate graduate students on big-time sports rosters. Picture the RSEQ kids in law, med or grad school (~2-3 of each yearly on a typical RSEQ football roster in a school that has all three, and four of the six RSEQ teams do) and you have an idea of how a graduate student in college sports would fit. Keep in mind that RSEQ's comparables are in Division II. So I'd say that it might be more workable in Divisions II and III, although many schools with quality graduate schools are in Division I.

But CIS being CIS, Canadian kids are more likely to be better academically than NCAA Division I kids outside the Ivy League.

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12-21-2012, 04:30 PM
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All I'm saying is that there aren't enough NCAA student athletes to make this worthwhile for the NCAA at this point. A very small percentage of student-athletes are able to get into legitimate grad programs, much less complete them. If it takes special treatment for them to pass over a regular student, then that's wrong. Imo.

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12-21-2012, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
Arent there like, 2-3 kids per each team (out of what, 100+ per team) that even have a chance at going pro?

I wouldn't mind this actually. Doubt it happens though.
Certain schools pump out more (Alabama, Ohio State, Texas, USC, etc). but I think this is accurate. Some players start graduate school depending on if they were redshirted or medically reshirted as well.

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12-21-2012, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by visor wearing goon View Post
All I'm saying is that there aren't enough NCAA student athletes to make this worthwhile for the NCAA at this point. A very small percentage of student-athletes are able to get into legitimate grad programs, much less complete them. If it takes special treatment for them to pass over a regular student, then that's wrong. Imo.
Are student-athletes (other than maybe Ivy League kids) really that far from the type of students that would get into grad school?

IMO if too many student-athletes aren't strong enough academically to be able to get into legitimate graduate programs in their own fields, and not flunk out of a graduate program (a PhD, a JD or a MD, for instance), this means something is seriously wrong with how we approach college athletics.

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12-21-2012, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathradio View Post
Are student-athletes (other than maybe Ivy League kids) really that far from the type of students that would get into grad school?

IMO if too many student-athletes aren't strong enough academically to be able to get into legitimate graduate programs in their own fields, and not flunk out of a graduate program (a PhD, a JD or a MD, for instance), this means something is seriously wrong with how we approach college athletics.
I think it depends if you're looking at all the student-athletes, vs those that are playing at top basketball, football, baseball programs.

For the big sports, I think there aren't much more than minor leagues, especially with college basketball, but when the system is making $$$ off the backs of players, a player with pro ability is probably better off going pro when he can, and will probably earn more than he ever could in a typical career.

And even for normal people, getting a PhD doesn't guarantee anything, look how competitive the sciences or humanities are for professorships, and post-docs don't earn squat. Almost like becoming a pro player, there's a lot of competition at the top level.

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Old
03-28-2013, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by TheMoreYouKnow View Post
I'm pretty sure there already are a lot players in college football who are grad students. I don't think the NCAA really specifies whether it's undergrad or grad, you just have four years of eligibility total regardless.
If they spent 3 years (plus potentially one year as a redshirt, regular or medical) at a Div II or Div III school and then move up to Div I for grad school, presumably because his undergraduate school didn't offer the graduate program he's pursuing, then I would have no objection to let that athlete transfer for grad school, if I ever became a coach of a Div II/III team faced with the desire of a given athlete to attend graduate school.

For example, a basketball player at U Sciences (USP), a division II school, who is a physics major and wants to attend, say, CU-Boulder for a physics PhD, since USP does not offer a graduate physics program. Also, USP is a little bit of an oddball since it does not encourage athletes to declare easy majors.

Do college teams even make any effort to recruit grad students for their teams (domestic or foreign)? Also, do coaches have any clout in grad school admissions?

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03-28-2013, 06:45 PM
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I think 4 years is fine. I think it's kind of bushlegue when I look at my former University athletics team rosters full of people in year 7 of eligibility. Just a personal opinion and no real rhyme or reason to it, I just don't particularly care for the idea.

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04-03-2013, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by VLoo View Post
I think 4 years is fine. I think it's kind of bushlegue when I look at my former University athletics team rosters full of people in year 7 of eligibility. Just a personal opinion and no real rhyme or reason to it, I just don't particularly care for the idea.
I always thought CIS, of which Waterloo is a member, granted 5 years of eligibility regardless of whether one is in grad school or in undergrad; were some players redshirted for two years or more?

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04-22-2013, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMoreYouKnow View Post
I'm pretty sure there already are a lot players in college football who are grad students. I don't think the NCAA really specifies whether it's undergrad or grad, you just have four years of eligibility total regardless.
Correct. There are more than a few players that are actually graduate students (particularly the 5th year seniors)

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