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Old
12-17-2012, 07:49 AM
  #576
Milliardo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by limite View Post
Games Goals Assists Points
Grigorenko 30 29 21 50
Grigorenko 30 29 21 50
Grigorenko 30 29 21 50
Grigorenko 30 29 21 50
Grigorenko 30 29 21 50
Grigorenko 30 29 21 50
Grigorenko 30 29 21 50
Grigorenko 30 29 21 50

That's it. Keep on denying reality. If Grigorenko were a Pens prospect, everyone would be going absolutely crazy and have already appointed him the next Kovalchuk. The Pens don't pick him and his just another nobody.
Wow, look at that guy, why didn't he make it???

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=62397

70 70 60 130

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12-17-2012, 08:53 AM
  #577
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milliardo View Post
Wow, look at that guy, why didn't he make it???

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=62397

70 70 60 130
Well to be fair, he was older than Grigorenko is now.

(insert joke about Grigorenko's age here)

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12-17-2012, 10:21 AM
  #578
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Quote:
Originally Posted by limite View Post
Games Goals Assists Points
Grigorenko 30 29 21 50
Grigorenko 30 29 21 50
Grigorenko 30 29 21 50
Grigorenko 30 29 21 50
Grigorenko 30 29 21 50
Grigorenko 30 29 21 50
Grigorenko 30 29 21 50
Grigorenko 30 29 21 50

That's it. Keep on denying reality. If Grigorenko were a Pens prospect, everyone would be going absolutely crazy and have already appointed him the next Kovalchuk. The Pens don't pick him and his just another nobody.
Well if were playing with stats... Grigorenko is only 5th in scoring while DP is 2nd among defensemen, does that mean DP is doing better?

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12-17-2012, 10:56 AM
  #579
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Originally Posted by kemisti View Post
Well to be fair, he was older than Grigorenko is now.

(insert joke about Grigorenko's age here)
Well to also be fair, I wasn't 100% serious. Just like I don't take the poster seriously.

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Old
12-17-2012, 11:59 AM
  #580
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Someone said it't not a big deal because he did it in the Q. It's all minor hockey (so not a sure thing), but I thought the Q was a much more competitive / tougher league than say, the WHL? I thought the OHL and Q are considered to be by a pretty wide margin, the best minor hockey leagues in Canada?

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12-17-2012, 12:17 PM
  #581
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Someone said it't not a big deal because he did it in the Q. It's all minor hockey (so not a sure thing), but I thought the Q was a much more competitive / tougher league than say, the WHL? I thought the OHL and Q are considered to be by a pretty wide margin, the best minor hockey leagues in Canada?
i was under the impression that the opposite was the case - that the Q is the wild-wild-west of the CHL where defense is an aforethought, whereas the WHL and OHL are supposedly far more competitive. but i know little of these things.

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12-17-2012, 12:19 PM
  #582
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Originally Posted by Lost in Crafton View Post
i was under the impression that the opposite was the case - that the Q is the wild-wild-west of the CHL where defense is an aforethought, whereas the WHL and OHL are supposedly far more competitive. but i know little of these things.
I believe this to be true.

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Old
12-17-2012, 12:28 PM
  #583
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The Q isn't as wide open as it used to be, but the W and O are much tougher leagues to play in.

Most people will tell you the W is the hardest league to score in, and it's tough to argue.

Both the O and W are a lot more physical than the Q as well, but the Q isn't as soft as some people claim.

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12-17-2012, 12:37 PM
  #584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Someone said it't not a big deal because he did it in the Q. It's all minor hockey (so not a sure thing), but I thought the Q was a much more competitive / tougher league than say, the WHL? I thought the OHL and Q are considered to be by a pretty wide margin, the best minor hockey leagues in Canada?
Many GMs consider the Q to be kind of a bush league where good stats don't mean much. That's a big reason Grigs slid I think.

Hell, when Philly drafted Giroux at #22 he had better draft-year stats in the Q than Grigs.

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Old
12-17-2012, 01:00 PM
  #585
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Originally Posted by limite View Post
That's it. Keep on denying reality. If Grigorenko were a Pens prospect, everyone would be going absolutely crazy and have already appointed him the next Kovalchuk. The Pens don't pick him and his just another nobody.
Uh..... no they wouldn't, because Kovalchuk is a wing, whereas Grigorenko is a pure top-6 or bust center. Good luck slotting that into the lineup anytime in the next 7 years.

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12-17-2012, 02:49 PM
  #586
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http://www.behindthenet.ca/projecting_to_nhl.php

Some data on league equivalencies in this one.

Q is just ever so slightly below OHL/WHL (which are pretty much equal). Certainly not the wide chasm as stated by several posters. (I also don't care to read any individual player examples that you think proves your case). These equivalency studies look at entire populations.

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Old
12-17-2012, 02:53 PM
  #587
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So much hate on Pouliot here. What does he have to do, go out and score an Ovechtrick? He is averaging over a PPG in the WHL this year, which isn't very common. He's doing better than Morrow ever did in the WHL, and he also has another year of eligibility. Not to mention all of the question marks around Grigs (age, work ethic, if points are inflated because of a weak league, ect.).

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12-17-2012, 03:25 PM
  #588
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I think, as is often the case when a handful of people go "against" the team, that you are inventing this so-called "hate." I just see some people having a reasonable discussion. Outside of maybe one or two.

Why is the team above questioning?

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Old
12-17-2012, 06:38 PM
  #589
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penguins2946 View Post
So much hate on Pouliot here.
I think it's either selective reading, or complete misrepresentation, of what's been said in this thread to suggest there's "so much hate on Pouliot". Just because folks believe someone else should have been taken instead of Pouliot, or believes someone else will have a better career than Pouliot, does not mean they "hate" Pouliot or think he's a bust.

(edit: I just realized this isn't the Pouliot thread. Apparently he creeps into every thread on this board now)

For instance, hypothetically if the Pens had taken Bobby Ryan in 2005 instead of Crosby, just because folks complain they passed on a better prospect, that does not imply that Bobby Ryan is not a good player or is a bust. It simply means that Crosby is better than Ryan.

This is an extreme example and I am in no way making a direct comparison, but rather an analogy of how just because folks may not be happy about a pick or a prospect, does not immediately imply they believe the player will be a bust or hate the player personally. They simply feel the player they passed on was or will be the better player than the one chosen.

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12-17-2012, 06:57 PM
  #590
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
I think it's either selective reading, or complete misrepresentation, of what's been said in this thread to suggest there's "so much hate on Pouliot". Just because folks believe someone else should have been taken instead of Pouliot, or believes someone else will have a better career than Pouliot, does not mean they "hate" Pouliot or think he's a bust.

(edit: I just realized this isn't the Pouliot thread. Apparently he creeps into every thread on this board now)

For instance, hypothetically if the Pens had taken Bobby Ryan in 2005 instead of Crosby, just because folks complain they passed on a better prospect, that does not imply that Bobby Ryan is not a good player or is a bust. It simply means that Crosby is better than Ryan.

This is an extreme example and I am in no way making a direct comparison, but rather an analogy of how just because folks may not be happy about a pick or a prospect, does not immediately imply they believe the player will be a bust or hate the player personally. They simply feel the player they passed on was or will be the better player than the one chosen.



I just awesomed all over the place.

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Old
12-17-2012, 07:00 PM
  #591
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Originally Posted by Ugene Malkin View Post
I just awesomed all over the place.
Gross, do you need a rag for that?

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Old
12-17-2012, 07:01 PM
  #592
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
I think it's either selective reading, or complete misrepresentation, of what's been said in this thread to suggest there's "so much hate on Pouliot". Just because folks believe someone else should have been taken instead of Pouliot, or believes someone else will have a better career than Pouliot, does not mean they "hate" Pouliot or think he's a bust.

(edit: I just realized this isn't the Pouliot thread. Apparently he creeps into every thread on this board now)

For instance, hypothetically if the Pens had taken Bobby Ryan in 2005 instead of Crosby, just because folks complain they passed on a better prospect, that does not imply that Bobby Ryan is not a good player or is a bust. It simply means that Crosby is better than Ryan.

This is an extreme example and I am in no way making a direct comparison, but rather an analogy of how just because folks may not be happy about a pick or a prospect, does not immediately imply they believe the player will be a bust or hate the player personally. They simply feel the player they passed on was or will be the better player than the one chosen.
It's mainly from Limite or whatever his name is. Others are just saying that they think Grigorenko would have been better, which I can respect. I disagree with it, but I can understand it. Personally, at the time of the pick, I wanted Forsberg, but I've really warmed to Pouliot.

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Old
12-17-2012, 07:04 PM
  #593
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Gross, do you need a rag for that?
That's what she said. Oh...wait.

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Old
12-17-2012, 11:08 PM
  #594
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Someone said it't not a big deal because he did it in the Q. It's all minor hockey (so not a sure thing), but I thought the Q was a much more competitive / tougher league than say, the WHL? I thought the OHL and Q are considered to be by a pretty wide margin, the best minor hockey leagues in Canada?

This is what I said on this subject a few pages ago, which pretty much gives with the quote posted below:


"The WHL is known for being the most competitive and physical of the leagues (also with the most travel), and hence the closest thing to NHL competition; with the OHL not far behind it; and the QMJHL as the league that has been notorious for being more of a high-scoring, looser brand of hockey, though that is continuing to improve and get more well-rounded with time."


Quote:
Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
http://www.behindthenet.ca/projecting_to_nhl.php

Some data on league equivalencies in this one.

Q is just ever so slightly below OHL/WHL (which are pretty much equal). Certainly not the wide chasm as stated by several posters. (I also don't care to read any individual player examples that you think proves your case). These equivalency studies look at entire populations.

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Old
12-21-2012, 08:33 PM
  #595
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Who has disappointed by every objective measure?

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Old
12-21-2012, 08:46 PM
  #596
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Who has disappointed by every objective measure?
He has?

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12-23-2012, 02:02 PM
  #597
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Originally Posted by penguins2946 View Post
It's mainly from Limite or whatever his name is.

That's a fairly pathetic attempt at a personal attack.
Quote:
Originally Posted by penguins2946 View Post
Others are just saying that they think Grigorenko would have been better, which I can respect. I disagree with it, but I can understand it. Personally, at the time of the pick, I wanted Forsberg, but I've really warmed to Pouliot.
Since you obviously don't get it, I'll spell it out one more time real slow. My point was not whether Grigorenko will turn out to be a big star. My point was that if the Pens had drafted him people like you would be creaming themselves over his stats. Some other teams picks him, and you pull out a stream of rationalizations about red flags, the Q, etc to make yourself feel better about picking a guy who was ranked much lower and is still ranked much low, 46 compared to Grigorenko's 17 if you give HF ranking much creedence. The rationalization thst goes on about Pouliot is amazing. He has never done a thing, gained an honor or earned an evaluation that merits him being drafted at #8. Worse, he just adds to a position that the Pens need least. OK, I could see drafting a defenseman if the he were head and shoulders above the forward alternatives, but Pouliot clearly is not. In fact, he's about waist high.

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12-23-2012, 03:48 PM
  #598
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Quote:
Originally Posted by limite View Post
Since you obviously don't get it, I'll spell it out one more time real slow. My point was not whether Grigorenko will turn out to be a big star. My point was that if the Pens had drafted him people like you would be creaming themselves over his stats. Some other teams picks him, and you pull out a stream of rationalizations about red flags, the Q, etc to make yourself feel better about picking a guy who was ranked much lower and is still ranked much low, 46 compared to Grigorenko's 17 if you give HF ranking much creedence. The rationalization thst goes on about Pouliot is amazing. He has never done a thing, gained an honor or earned an evaluation that merits him being drafted at #8. Worse, he just adds to a position that the Pens need least. OK, I could see drafting a defenseman if the he were head and shoulders above the forward alternatives, but Pouliot clearly is not. In fact, he's about waist high.

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12-23-2012, 04:25 PM
  #599
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Quote:
Originally Posted by limite View Post
Since you obviously don't get it, I'll spell it out one more time real slow. My point was not whether Grigorenko will turn out to be a big star. My point was that if the Pens had drafted him people like you would be creaming themselves over his stats. Some other teams picks him, and you pull out a stream of rationalizations about red flags, the Q, etc to make yourself feel better about picking a guy who was ranked much lower and is still ranked much low, 46 compared to Grigorenko's 17 if you give HF ranking much creedence. The rationalization thst goes on about Pouliot is amazing. He has never done a thing, gained an honor or earned an evaluation that merits him being drafted at #8. Worse, he just adds to a position that the Pens need least. OK, I could see drafting a defenseman if the he were head and shoulders above the forward alternatives, but Pouliot clearly is not. In fact, he's about waist high.


Ugh, where to begin. Let's start with the 1st bold. You said this on the Pouliot vs Morrow thread:

Quote:
And Grigorenko has been scoring almost a **goal** a game.
Hypocritical much? Also, it's much more impressive to be averaging a point per game as a D in a grittier league than a forward averaging a nearly a goal a game in a more offensive league. Just like you said, we shouldn't be "creaming ourselves" over stats. Just because Grigs has a bunch of points doesn't make him the better choice. May I remind you of B. Pouliot. Tore up the league in the Q, got drafted REALLY high and turned out to be nothing. Another example is Daigle, but everyone knows that story. My point is that you can't put too much weight in points scored. Zoblin has over a PPG in the Q, and let's be honest, he isn't that good of a prospect. Points don't mean squat if the rest of your game is mediocre.

The second bold was that Pouliot was ranked a lot below Grigs on HF Boards. 31 spots to be exact. Congrats, but you failed to mention that there wasn't much separation between them everywhere else:

NHL.com: Grigs was 4th North American skater, Pouliot was 12th
Hockey News: Grigs was 3rd overall, Pouliot was 13th
Future Considerations: Grigs was 4th, Pouliot was 14th
The Hockey Writers: Grigs was 3rd, Pouliot was 11th

Point is that while Grigs was higher that Pouliot in the rankings, it wasn't a whole round separation like you seem to think it is. Quoting a far-left source as saying it as proof is like me trying to say Obama is a Muslim from Kenya or because FOX News says so. It makes no sense, don't become FOX News.

He made the Memorial Cup and won the WHL Rookie of the Year award. He was also drafted 1st overall in the WHL Bantam Draft. Don't give me that "he doesn't deserve it" crap. Completely opinionated.

We can NEVER have to many D. Period. Grigs would have been a terrible choice, mainly because he is a center, and we have a few decent players at center already. And a change in positions is never easy, irregardless of how you think it is. Centers play a really different game than wingers. If the Pens really wanted to draft Sid a center to move to the wing, either Staal or Malkin would be on Sid's line right now.

Only a matter of time before you make a stupid response. Thanks btw, you took my place as the dumbest poster.

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12-23-2012, 07:35 PM
  #600
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penguins2946 View Post


Ugh, where to begin. Let's start with the 1st bold. You said this on the Pouliot vs Morrow thread:



Hypocritical much? Also, it's much more impressive to be averaging a point per game as a D in a grittier league than a forward averaging a nearly a goal a game in a more offensive league. Just like you said, we shouldn't be "creaming ourselves" over stats. Just because Grigs has a bunch of points doesn't make him the better choice. May I remind you of B. Pouliot. Tore up the league in the Q, got drafted REALLY high and turned out to be nothing. Another example is Daigle, but everyone knows that story. My point is that you can't put too much weight in points scored. Zoblin has over a PPG in the Q, and let's be honest, he isn't that good of a prospect. Points don't mean squat if the rest of your game is mediocre.
I agree with everything you said however I just wanted to correct you on one thing... Benoit Pouliot played in the OHL for the Sudbury Wolves, not in the Q.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=4961

You're welcome Honey.

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