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Questions from and old(ish) newb at hockey

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Old
12-21-2012, 05:51 PM
  #26
Mr Fahrenheit
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Make sure you hold your stick softly, enough so it you wont drop it if it gets hit, or your stick handling, passing and shooting will suffer, thats why they say someone whos snake bitten is gripping the stick too tight. I would also recommend that you hold your stick around your house just to be comfortable holding it, I think it helps and ive played with plenty of beginners who just dont look comfortable holding their stick even though they have been playing for a year+

If you ever do watch hockey (damn you lockout) watch how they play positionally because nothing irritates me more then people running around chasing the puck and leaving their position open or just in the wrong spot

Something people would do to practice skating off the ice is skating on your socks on a slippery white board

Also you might want to try agility ladders in your work out

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12-21-2012, 06:09 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss53mech View Post
I'm not calling anybody wrong as I am obviously the new guy here for advice. However, I think they fit pretty good. The heel definately locks in with no vertical movement. The pressure on the top and sides of my foot is very even when laced, and my foot doesn't slide inside the skate when moving. My toes don't touch when standing/gliding but when I push off hard or stomp they just touch the tip of the boot. I figure if the skate volume goes up a bit with break in I should get to a point where there is no contact. the only place I don't feel it has a real good fit is right on the sides of my ankle. the skate has pads built in on either side of the bone that sticks out of the ankle and either my bone is really protruding from my ankle a lot or those pads need to break in. they seem really tight right in that area. Odly enough the pain was considerably worse in my right foot than the left but lessened as I kept skating. I'll get them baked and see if that takes care of the pad problem. gonna grab the last of my equipment while I'm down there as well. I'll update this once I get it all on and try it again.
It's possible that you lucked out and got a great fitting skate from an online order having never tried it on before, it's just very unlikely. Also, the fact that you're getting serious pain on the bottom of your foot just 15 minutes into skates suggests that your skates might have fit issues. Agreed with Jarick that I'd definitely like to know exactly where your foot is hurting.

It can also be very hard to judge whether or not a skate fits well if you haven't tried on and skated in a lot of skates. You have no reference, nothing to compare them with. As long as skates are roughly the right size and width, they will feel more or less like a good fit, more or less like they hug your feet properly, but small differences in fit can make a big difference in comfort and performance. Your opinion of what a good and bad fit feels like may change with time as you experience more skates. It's like if you'd never had chocolate before, then had your first chocolate ever, even if you liked it'd you'd have a tough time rating it against other chocolates. But if you've tried a tonne of different chocolates, you'd have a much better idea of what's out there, and would be able to tell much more easily whether it's the perfect chocolate for your tastes, a pretty good chocolate, or a chocolate that really isn't that great for you.

From your description, it sounds like the length is about right, and the heel lock sounds fine. Overall volume/tightness/shape is really tough to judge until you've tried on a lot of skates, only experience can really tell you the perfect balance (too loose means poor performance, too tight means pain). What you currently consider to be a decent fit through the foot might indeed be good, or you might realize that it's a bit tight or a bit loose after trying on a bunch of other skates. It sounds like the ankle padding doesn't fit your ankles well, but if they're heat moldable skates then that area normally molds fairly well after you bake them, so that problem could potentially be fixed with a bake.

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12-21-2012, 11:10 PM
  #28
ss53mech
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The specifics of the pain would be: predominantly in my right foot (just a barely noticeable amount in the left) and on the bottom of the foot. It's not bone it's strictly muscle/tendon type pain. We went out and skated for like 2 1/2 hours today. Was pretty bad at first but I just skated through it and eventually it evened out. Didn't really go away just dulled to an acceptable point where I could just live with it. After the 2 1/2 hour mark I had to call it off. My ankles, calves, back, core were hurting enough to the point it was no longer an enjoyable process. I was falling down even more often than the day prior but as far as I can tell that's a good thing as I was pushing myself to do more. I was able to execute a pretty decent stop on my left (still can't convince my body to do it on the right) and was really focusing on starting/stopping to get comfortable on the skates. When I was falling/running in to the boards it seemed like my right big toe was hitting the front of the skate to the point of pretty serious pain but it wasn't happening on my left?!? I don't want to draw too many conclusions until I get the skates baked and see if that helps but right now I am starting to wonder if my right foot is bigger than the left.

P.S. (specifically to ponder)
I really don't mean to come off as disrespectful to anyone on here. Clearly I appreciate the help/advice I am just trying to be honest as to the situation so that I can take the corrective steps/action to get this right. Skating lessons aren't really a viable option as it's an hour drive each way and I just don't have the time to do that. So I am trying to integrate drills and techniques as much as I can with what I know. Today we ran a passing drill for like an hour and a half starting in a small triangle working to bigger one, then setting back to small for a "passing in to skates and stopping the puck with skates" drill to a bigger version and then the whole thing again. According to the much more experienced guy who is helping me out with this my shot is pretty good for a newb and my passing is pretty spot on, my skating and balance need work but I'm progressing faster than he expected.

I'm going to keep at it and we'll see if I can't be some kind of athlete before this all over.

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12-21-2012, 11:21 PM
  #29
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You wanna work on your core. strong legs and strong back. dead lifts, squats, trunk rotation, lunges and sprints.

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12-22-2012, 11:53 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss53mech View Post
The specifics of the pain would be: predominantly in my right foot (just a barely noticeable amount in the left) and on the bottom of the foot. It's not bone it's strictly muscle/tendon type pain. We went out and skated for like 2 1/2 hours today. Was pretty bad at first but I just skated through it and eventually it evened out. Didn't really go away just dulled to an acceptable point where I could just live with it. After the 2 1/2 hour mark I had to call it off. My ankles, calves, back, core were hurting enough to the point it was no longer an enjoyable process. I was falling down even more often than the day prior but as far as I can tell that's a good thing as I was pushing myself to do more. I was able to execute a pretty decent stop on my left (still can't convince my body to do it on the right) and was really focusing on starting/stopping to get comfortable on the skates. When I was falling/running in to the boards it seemed like my right big toe was hitting the front of the skate to the point of pretty serious pain but it wasn't happening on my left?!? I don't want to draw too many conclusions until I get the skates baked and see if that helps but right now I am starting to wonder if my right foot is bigger than the left.

P.S. (specifically to ponder)
I really don't mean to come off as disrespectful to anyone on here. Clearly I appreciate the help/advice I am just trying to be honest as to the situation so that I can take the corrective steps/action to get this right. Skating lessons aren't really a viable option as it's an hour drive each way and I just don't have the time to do that. So I am trying to integrate drills and techniques as much as I can with what I know. Today we ran a passing drill for like an hour and a half starting in a small triangle working to bigger one, then setting back to small for a "passing in to skates and stopping the puck with skates" drill to a bigger version and then the whole thing again. According to the much more experienced guy who is helping me out with this my shot is pretty good for a newb and my passing is pretty spot on, my skating and balance need work but I'm progressing faster than he expected.

I'm going to keep at it and we'll see if I can't be some kind of athlete before this all over.
Don't worry, you're not coming off disrespectful at all, and I hope I'm not either

I'm still a touch confused. One thing I'm not 100% sure of, are you in roller blades, ice skates, or a bit of both? Also, the pain on the bottom of your foot is unrelated to the toe jamming pain, right? Finally, where exactly is the pain on the bottom of your foot, by the balls of your feet, by your arch, or by your heel? Towards the outside of your foot, or towards the inside?

Regardless, you seem dedicated to practising and fitness, if you stick with it and keep this attitude you'll definitely be ready for some beer league hockey in the near future! 2.5 hours is an insanely long practice, most people are ready to quit after 1 hour

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Old
12-22-2012, 04:51 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by ponder View Post
Don't worry, you're not coming off disrespectful at all, and I hope I'm not either

I'm still a touch confused. One thing I'm not 100% sure of, are you in roller blades, ice skates, or a bit of both? Also, the pain on the bottom of your foot is unrelated to the toe jamming pain, right? Finally, where exactly is the pain on the bottom of your foot, by the balls of your feet, by your arch, or by your heel? Towards the outside of your foot, or towards the inside?

Regardless, you seem dedicated to practising and fitness, if you stick with it and keep this attitude you'll definitely be ready for some beer league hockey in the near future! 2.5 hours is an insanely long practice, most people are ready to quit after 1 hour
Sorry my last post could have been more specific. I had a few beers to mellow the body ache and it clouded my writing (not that it's much better sober). The foot pain is indeed not related to the toe jamming. I'd say it's all in the arch but on the inside, center, and outside of the bottom of my foot. The inline skates are mission axiom t10 revolt size 8.5 EE. Sadly my ultimate goal is to play both ice and inline however the closest ice rink is just over an hour away. The military lifestyle does not lend itself to that trip being feasible more than once a week.

This morning when I woke up everything from my ribs down was pretty sore, particularly my lower back. But it all feels the good kind of sore like when you start using muscles that haven't been getting enough excersize. Planning on going back out tomorrow for a couple hours and I'll see how it goes.

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12-24-2012, 04:30 PM
  #32
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Went back out today. Skates seemed to feel a little better. took around a half hour for the pain to set in on the right foot. Left foot was good as usual.

I noticed while skating that my left foot was much more stable and nimble than the right, and that my right foot toes stay in contact with the toe of the skate when I'm not bending at the knees and thus the ankle. When I bend my leg forward it is pulling my foot back in the skate. Also I noticed that the foot pain in the right foot got worse when I tightened my skates. I'm starting to think I am doing them too tight. After skating for around 20 minutes I noticed my right foot sliding forward in the skate so I tightened it and when I went back out after about 5 minutes that is when the pain in the muscles under the arch of my foot started up. If I leave the skate loose my foot slides forward, tight and it seems to squeeze down and in on the sides of my foot. So I'm starting to buy in to the thesis that the skates aren't a great fit. Going to have them baked and go from there.

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12-24-2012, 05:16 PM
  #33
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Glad your going to finally get them baked, that should help determine if the skates are a good fit and should make the left better. This may sound dumb but are you sure your feet are the same size and shape? That could really make a difference in terms of pain and fit, and it's not as uncommon as it sounds. Also see if you can get some Superfeet Yellow, they should help with arch pain.

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12-24-2012, 06:04 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by ArrogantOwl View Post
Glad your going to finally get them baked, that should help determine if the skates are a good fit and should make the left better. This may sound dumb but are you sure your feet are the same size and shape? That could really make a difference in terms of pain and fit, and it's not as uncommon as it sounds. Also see if you can get some Superfeet Yellow, they should help with arch pain.

Funny that you ask, I'm pretty sure they're not. I think the right one is indeed a little longer and wider than the left. Where would one find the "superfeet"? Are the specifically a skate insole?

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12-26-2012, 11:43 AM
  #35
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If after you get the skates baked the right foot still hurts, see if they can stretch/punch it slightly to widen it. I've had that done to all my skates. I get pain behind the ball of the foot that feels like an awful cramp until I get them stretched a bit.

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12-26-2012, 12:10 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by ss53mech View Post
Funny that you ask, I'm pretty sure they're not. I think the right one is indeed a little longer and wider than the left. Where would one find the "superfeet"? Are the specifically a skate insole?
Some LHS have them. The yellow ones are specifically for skates. Try online if you can't find them.

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12-26-2012, 12:41 PM
  #37
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What the super feet might do for you is:

1. support your arch against the pressure from the tightness of the skate pushing downward in the middle
2. shorten your foot, or at least not forcing it to lengthen by collapsing your arch

both might alleviate some of the problems and is worth a try. Superfeet guarantee they will work, so you can take them back if they don't (they might not, but nothing to lose trying them)

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12-26-2012, 10:12 PM
  #38
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Again thanks for all the input guys. Just a little update. I went down to wilmington and bought myself some gear.

Purchased a Bauer Helmet, started with a medium, moved to a large as it was putting a bunch of pressure on the sides of my head so we tried a large that had to collapse most of the way in to fit on the front and back. The helmet contours to my head pretty nicely and has memory foam. I know from wearing a kevlar (USMC helmet) that doesn't fit the pressure on the side of the head becomes unbearable pretty quickly. Went with a medium cage to get the chin pad fit correctly.

Got a "bauer Nexus p92" stick. Seemed to have a nice mild curve and a "5" lie that fit my stance on skates pretty well.

Bought my first pair of ice skates. Tried on the Bauer Vapors, the Bauer Supremes. Both seemed to induce the same pain as the Mission inline skates I have. the guy in the shop said that maybe I would be a better fit for reeboks. So I tried on the 14k. GAME OVER, as soon as I tried them on they instantly felt like they were made for my feet. Where the Vapors seem to induce arch pain, and the supremes didn't really fit my heel these made nice contact without pressure all the way around my foot and ankle. I bought them and a quick sharpening later I was out skating around on them. Stayed on the ice (public skate) just doing circles for about 45 minutes. No pain except for the knee I fell down on during my attempt at a stop (failhammer). Took them back in got them baked for good measure.

Also the guy at the shop baked my mission inline skates for free since I spent like 500 bucks on other stuff. Overall I got much more in tune with how a skate can/should feel on the foot. Only thing he didn't have available was a girdle which I plan to buy in the next day or so.

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12-26-2012, 10:18 PM
  #39
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If after you get the skates baked the right foot still hurts, see if they can stretch/punch it slightly to widen it. I've had that done to all my skates. I get pain behind the ball of the foot that feels like an awful cramp until I get them stretched a bit.
I left before you posted this. How would they do that? After putting on the Reebok skates today I definitely believe that the mid skate width and arch is the problem. Prior to wearing those I honestly thought that skates were meant to squeeze the sides of the mid foot and arch. Clearly that is not the case, but I don't know how they can really make the skate that much wider in that area.

I'll see what the bake today does for them and I'll get back to you as to wether it's better or just different.

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12-26-2012, 10:23 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Crosbyfan View Post
What the super feet might do for you is:

1. support your arch against the pressure from the tightness of the skate pushing downward in the middle
2. shorten your foot, or at least not forcing it to lengthen by collapsing your arch

both might alleviate some of the problems and is worth a try. Superfeet guarantee they will work, so you can take them back if they don't (they might not, but nothing to lose trying them)
So if I'm understanding this correctly they effectively "add" arch to the skate? If so I am thinking this will make it worse as the arch area of the skate seems to be the tightest part for me.

While trying on some other skates that induced the aforementioned pain it really tried to focus on where the pressure points from the skate were. It was in three areas: the bottom and inside of my arch, the bone protruding from the outer edge of the foot (not ankle, the foot itself), and the bottom and inside of the ball of my feet.

When I tried on the 14k's this pressure was not there, these areas still made contact but were not cramped like on the other skates. With this in mind does it sound like said "superfeet" would improve my situation or actually just make it worse?

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12-27-2012, 08:18 AM
  #41
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So if I'm understanding this correctly they effectively "add" arch to the skate? If so I am thinking this will make it worse as the arch area of the skate seems to be the tightest part for me.

While trying on some other skates that induced the aforementioned pain it really tried to focus on where the pressure points from the skate were. It was in three areas: the bottom and inside of my arch, the bone protruding from the outer edge of the foot (not ankle, the foot itself), and the bottom and inside of the ball of my feet.

When I tried on the 14k's this pressure was not there, these areas still made contact but were not cramped like on the other skates. With this in mind does it sound like said "superfeet" would improve my situation or actually just make it worse?
Most skates are made for a flatter foot, so that everyone can put them on, but at the same time do not properly support even an average arch. Superfeet do add arch. This will make it worse only if you have low arches, as long as you tie your skates with the same snugness at the instep (same snugness means you will have more room since you will tie them with the super feet in place)

The problem with normal to high arches is lack of support at the arch, and with skates tied at all snug there is a constant pressure downward trying to collapse the arch (which lengthens the foot)

I'm not familiar with the fit of the 14Ks but if they have good arch support for an average foot that would be unusual as it would rule out a lot of people even being able to wear them.

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12-27-2012, 10:21 AM
  #42
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Most skates are made for a flatter foot, so that everyone can put them on, but at the same time do not properly support even an average arch. Superfeet do add arch. This will make it worse only if you have low arches, as long as you tie your skates with the same snugness at the instep (same snugness means you will have more room since you will tie them with the super feet in place)

The problem with normal to high arches is lack of support at the arch, and with skates tied at all snug there is a constant pressure downward trying to collapse the arch (which lengthens the foot)

I'm not familiar with the fit of the 14Ks but if they have good arch support for an average foot that would be unusual as it would rule out a lot of people even being able to wear them.
Thanks for the input but by the sounds of it, it seems that the added arch support from and insole would make and already tight area of the skate even more tight. The reebok 14k's have very little arch and fit my foot quite nicely whereas the mission skates have a pretty significant rise in the middle of the skate and don't fit my foot nearly as well. So I'll probably not use the insoles. That is unless I am misunderstanding this alltogether. thanks.

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12-27-2012, 10:57 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by ss53mech View Post
Thanks for the input but by the sounds of it, it seems that the added arch support from and insole would make and already tight area of the skate even more tight. The reebok 14k's have very little arch and fit my foot quite nicely whereas the mission skates have a pretty significant rise in the middle of the skate and don't fit my foot nearly as well. So I'll probably not use the insoles. That is unless I am misunderstanding this alltogether. thanks.
If you are already getting the support in that area you might be fine. It's when the support under your arch is not there that the arch tends to collapse. Everyone's feet are different and most manufacturers tend to err on the flatter side (giving super feet a nice market), but if the missions had too much then you may have had the opposite, less common, problem (in which case super feet in the missions would not have worked and may have made it worse) of having excess support, or in the wrong place.

Your posts did seem to describe more toe contact progressing in your right foot (indicating collapsing/lengthening) and that did sound like lack of support in the arch so unless you do have naturally lower arches keep an eye out for that. Ideally of course everyone gets fitted with the best orthotics for their feet, but most of us react to problems as they arise. Hopefully you are now all set with the Reeboks and problems don't reoccur. Good Luck.

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12-27-2012, 11:03 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by ss53mech View Post
I left before you posted this. How would they do that? After putting on the Reebok skates today I definitely believe that the mid skate width and arch is the problem. Prior to wearing those I honestly thought that skates were meant to squeeze the sides of the mid foot and arch. Clearly that is not the case, but I don't know how they can really make the skate that much wider in that area.

I'll see what the bake today does for them and I'll get back to you as to wether it's better or just different.
For me the boots being too narrow up front is similar to lack of arch support.

If you don't have enough arch support, you're basically balancing on the oustides of the foot while the arch is up in the air. The ligaments and muscles of the foot have to try and hold you up. It's like holding a dumbbell out in front of you...it's not bad for a few seconds, maybe even a minute, but then it starts to hurt and gets exponentially worse.

The reason skates being too narrow up front can cause this is because the feet want to flatten out after a few minutes. Skates are too stiff for the sides to expand slightly so there's no room for the foot to flatten out and expand. You end up with your arch elevated and the same thing as above.

Now when I first got this pain, I tried Superfeet and it helped a lot while skating, but as soon as I took my skate off, it was horrible foot cramping and pain located just behind the ball of the foot going into the arch and the very outside of my feet. Finally I got the boots stretched and punched up front and it went away.

I'm not experienced enough to know which is which but I can tell you every pair of skates I've bought has had crippling arch and outside of the foot pain until I get them stretched and punched and then it goes away.

Also, this happened with my new Grafs which had SIDAS insoles. Those are $100 heat molded insoles that use an air bladder to fit them perfectly to my foot. It wasn't lack of support, it was too narrow a boot.

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