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Paul Kariya or Theo Fleury

View Poll Results: well
Kariya 41 66.13%
Fleury 17 27.42%
even 4 6.45%
Voters: 62. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
12-21-2012, 06:23 PM
  #1
Puckgenius*
 
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Paul Kariya or Theo Fleury

Who was better in their prime? Both PPG players but PK career was cut short thanks to Suter. I think theyre skillsets were very similar, both were fast, deadly accurate wrister and underrated playmakers.

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Old
12-21-2012, 06:28 PM
  #2
Elever
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I like them both but I wouldn't say skillset was similar. Kariya is probably one of the cleanest stars to play the game while Fleury though not a dirty player at all probably has the highest ratio of intensity/aggressiveness:size in the past 20 years. Kariya probably was more skilled and a bit more fun to watch when he had the puck, Fleury was better without the puck.

I dunno about peaks but my assumption is that a team trying to win a cup could probably make better use of Fleury.

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Old
12-21-2012, 06:38 PM
  #3
King Forsberg
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I'd say Paul Kariya rather easily.

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Old
12-21-2012, 06:39 PM
  #4
kmad
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I'd take pre-injury Kariya without much thought.

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Old
12-21-2012, 06:48 PM
  #5
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Just prime? Kariya for sure for me

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Old
12-21-2012, 07:21 PM
  #6
davebenj
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Kariya was/ is one of the most unfriendliest players off the ice so it pains me to say it but I would take him and I hate to say that as I loved Fleury and hated Kariya like you cannot believe.

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Old
12-21-2012, 08:01 PM
  #7
Ohashi_Jouzu
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Yeeeaah... Kariya every time. Was still being dubbed the "next Gretzky" after following his rookie team nomination up with two 1st team all-star berths and a Hart runner-up.

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Old
12-21-2012, 08:03 PM
  #8
Darth Yoda
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davebenj View Post
Kariya was/ is one of the most unfriendliest players off the ice so it pains me to say it but I would take him and I hate to say that as I loved Fleury and hated Kariya like you cannot believe.
Yeah man! I met that ***hole and asked if he could sign a card. He gave me this clear gaze of resent and not wanting to, but i paroled right up to him and he signed it. Clear cut worst of all the players i've met. Voted Fleury becouse of it.

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12-21-2012, 08:18 PM
  #9
LeBlondeDemon10
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Fleury. He could play any game and get under your nose. If his offensive skills weren't so good he could have been a great defensive player/pest exceeding the standards Tik set. Its really too bad Kariya's injury interrupted his prime, but the same can be said with Fleury's substance abuse issues. Kariya definitely had more potential.

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Old
12-21-2012, 08:34 PM
  #10
davebenj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Yoda View Post
Yeah man! I met that ***hole and asked if he could sign a card. He gave me this clear gaze of resent and not wanting to, but i paroled right up to him and he signed it. Clear cut worst of all the players i've met. Voted Fleury becouse of it.
Got to give you credit for sticking with it. I feel ya.

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Old
12-21-2012, 08:49 PM
  #11
Ohashi_Jouzu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeBlondeDemon10 View Post
Fleury. He could play any game and get under your nose. If his offensive skills weren't so good he could have been a great defensive player/pest exceeding the standards Tik set. Its really too bad Kariya's injury interrupted his prime, but the same can be said with Fleury's substance abuse issues. Kariya definitely had more potential.
I think he made it just a bit past the "showing potential" stage. After all, he was a 1st team all-star in his first 3 healthy seasons. IMO, it really wasn't until rejoining the (sucky and struggling - 2W, 11L during Kariya's absence) Ducks mid-season after his second broken right foot that he started looking like less of an impact player. He wasn't getting into shooting opportunities as much, wasn't opening up as much room for his linemates, got caught up ice a bit too much, etc. That's 6 years into his career, though.

They really do have similar length primes, when you look at it. But when you look at it, Fleury's prime doesn't compare (imo). I'm not even sure preference for a "style" could justify the calibre gap in player here; especially if we're narrowing the focus to their "primes".

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Old
12-21-2012, 09:00 PM
  #12
Passchendaele
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I don't understand why people call players jerks when they won't sign autographs. Do you know how much time they'd waste if they did it each time they were asked?

Hockey players are human beings, they also have lives of their own.
They are paid to play hockey, not to sign autographs.

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Old
12-21-2012, 09:06 PM
  #13
davebenj
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Originally Posted by Passchendaele View Post
I don't understand why people call players jerks when they won't sign autographs. Do you know how much time they'd waste if they did it each time they were asked?

Hockey players are human beings, they also have lives of their own.
They are paid to play hockey, not to sign autographs.
It's not just that Kariya doesn't sign autographs, he's apparently a very unfriendly person in general even if nobody asks him for one. My cousin who worked at a hotel in Miami as a concierge was sick one day but he and the Ducks checked in several years ago and all the workers told him they were just disgusted at how rude and curt he was and it was funny because Jason (my cousin) said that almost every hockey player who stayed there was extremely nice. I understand players who don't like signing but they don't have to be not nice about it or unfriendly in general. They can just say not now or I don't really like signing. Anyway, I didn't mean to hijack the thread so sorry for my mini rant.

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12-21-2012, 09:12 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
I think he made it just a bit past the "showing potential" stage. After all, he was a 1st team all-star in his first 3 healthy seasons. IMO, it really wasn't until rejoining the (sucky and struggling - 2W, 11L during Kariya's absence) Ducks mid-season after his second broken right foot that he started looking like less of an impact player. He wasn't getting into shooting opportunities as much, wasn't opening up as much room for his linemates, got caught up ice a bit too much, etc. That's 6 years into his career, though.

They really do have similar length primes, when you look at it. But when you look at it, Fleury's prime doesn't compare (imo). I'm not even sure preference for a "style" could justify the calibre gap in player here; especially if we're narrowing the focus to their "primes".
I'm not saying he didn't reach is skill potential. I'm saying his potential for a lengthy productive career was shortened. Besides the gap in primes, its more of a personal preference for me. I liked the way Fleury played and I think he would be a more valuable asset to a team.

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12-21-2012, 10:53 PM
  #15
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If I was starting a team and had the choice of the two of them I would have to go with Kariya.

Paul missed games due to concussions, while Fleury's inconsistency was a result of his off-ice antics. I understand he was traumatized in his youth, but it was something he could never really escape until after his on-ice career. Theo was the talented but troubled superstar, while Kariya faced the ridiculous expectations pre-NHL of being the 'next Gretzky' and handled them extremely well, not only on the ice but he was a top student at the University of Maine.

Kariya also played on downright terrible teams in Anaheim but he and Selanne somehow carried them to the playoffs in '96-'97 and '98-'99. Paul's stretch of at least a PPG from 1995-2001 on the flippin' MIGHTY DUCKS separates him for Fleury IMO.

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Old
12-21-2012, 11:13 PM
  #16
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Fleury. Give him two more inches and he is a first-ballot HHOFer. People forget how friggin talented he was along with his amazing grit.

If only he hadn't his off-ice problems :/

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12-21-2012, 11:44 PM
  #17
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This is part of an interesting scouting report from some old page I found on Kariya. However I still maintain that since they were both good offensively, I'd go with Fleury as he's the grittier player and better at his peak in the playoffs. Kariya is a pure offensive guy imo who needs a good team to do well with. I guess it depends on how much you value pure offense though but this is not Forsberg vs Jagr where you can argue Jagr's offense overcomes all the other stuff Forsberg could do, both of these guys were close offensively. I'd take a high scoring forward who can fight through anything like Bure over Fleury maybe but with Fleury/Kariya it's closer.

http://www.geocities.ws/colosseum/8821/reportk.html
Quote:
The Finesse Game
Kariya may be the best skater in the NHL. He is so smooth and fluid his movements appear effortless. He's also explosive, with a good change of direction, and he can turn a defender inside out on a one-on-one rush. His speed is a weapon, since he forces defenders to play off him for fear of being burnt, and that opens the ice for his playmaking options. He combines his skating with no-look passes that are uncanny. Teemu Selanne is the perfect linemate for him, because the Finnish Flash breaks as soon as he sees Kariya with control of the puck. Kariya puts on a burst of speed and can lift his pass over the sticks of defenders just ahead of Selanne for him to skate into. He uses his speed defensively, too, and is quick on the backcheck to break up passes. Kariya kills penalties by hounding the point men and pressuring them into bad passes, which he turns into scoring chances. Kariya is smart; some would say cerebral. He is a magician with the puck and can make a play when it looks as if there are no possible options. He likes to use the net for protection, like his idol Wayne Gretzky, and make passes from behind the goal line. His release on his shot is excellent. Playing with the defensively alert Steve Rucchin gives Kariya and Selanne the freedom to make their breakout dashes, but Kariya never goes for high-risk plays when it might cost his team. Kariya is a low maintenance superstar. He has worked on his weaknesses, becoming stronger on the puck, less fancy in his passing, and more willing to shoot. He is willing and able to carry a team on his back.

The Physical Game

Kariya added about 10 pounds of muscle coming into last season, and the weight helped him absorb some of the punishment he takes as a member of Anaheim's top (some might say only) line. He has powerful thighs and legs and has improved his upper body. He's gritty in his own way and plays through minor nicks, and major ones, without a whimper.

The Intangibles
It was tough to argue with Buffalo's Dominik Hasek as the league MVP, but when Kariya missed the first 11 games of the season with his groin injury, the Ducks went 1-8-2. Kariya proved to be as excellent a player in the playoffs as he is during the regular season. As the youngest captain in the NHL, Kariya has accepted the role as team spokesman and understands how he can contribute to promote the game he plays with such passion.

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Old
12-22-2012, 12:05 AM
  #18
vadim sharifijanov
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the answer is probably kariya, even though i couldn't bring myself not to vote for fleury.

one thing in fleury's favour though: he had a much more well-rounded game. fleury hit, agitated, and could play decent defense. you could assign him to the other team's top player and he could shut down the guy and outscore him. not always; he wasn't messier, or even close. but in terms of the non-offensive game, fleury was leaps and bounds ahead of kariya, who was pretty one-dimensional.

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12-22-2012, 12:08 AM
  #19
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I think this is pretty much even when you consider all both brought to the table, longevity and playoff records.

Interesting one. Both total HHOF bubble players. No one is going to campaign yearly for their induction, and no one is going to complain that much if they get in.

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12-22-2012, 12:35 AM
  #20
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Are there some sort of guidelines players are expected to follow when dealing with fans? I always wonder about this when I see these complaints of those players that don't act the way people think they should.

I wouldn't be surprised, people can talk about passion and heart and grit and who's left standing when the gloves drop but at the end of the day it's just a game of entertainment and the broad street bullies are only separated by degrees from other groups of entertainers like the back street boys so I can see there being rules in regulations in how the performers treat the cash cow. The NHL is in the business of making money and nobody likes sullen people so the more they smile the more they get paid.

Behavior clauses in their contracts. Maybe that's what I'm thinking of.

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Old
12-22-2012, 06:58 AM
  #21
Fire Julien
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Kariya was considered a top 5 forward in the league. Fleury never came close to cracking the top 10.

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12-22-2012, 08:12 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caballo Blanco View Post
Kariya was considered a top 5 forward in the league.
Paul Kariya was considered a Top-3 forward actually.


It's Kariya until you injure him, and I think both are HOFers.

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12-22-2012, 08:13 AM
  #23
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Kariya was easily more purely talented and would be one of the greats if he hadn't gotten his brain scrambled.

Fleury had a good skillset himself to go along with a ton of heart and grit but he doesn't quite match up to Kariya.

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12-22-2012, 08:34 AM
  #24
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Kariya was the more skilled one but he was a complete tool off the ice. Fleury was a tool on the ice and real gentleman off it.

Tough choice but I'll be biased and vote for Fleury.

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Old
12-22-2012, 10:12 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caballo Blanco View Post
Kariya was considered a top 5 forward in the league. Fleury never came close to cracking the top 10.
This is true... Well mostly so. Kariya was considered near the best in the world for a few years and had the point finishes too. Fleury was borderline top 10 or so in his best years.
The thing is... Right now in hindsight if you were a GM and had to pick one or the other in their prime to start the playoffs on your team... Most GMs would pick Theo I believe. And that is funny because Theo's only deep Cup run was as a rookie. But in best on best... And earlier playoff rounds and game 7s. Theo is amazing. Gretzky said once he is the best player in the clutch. Gretzky spreads praise around like Jersey Shore actors spread VD though... But still, it is not faint praise.
Theo is kind of like Gilmour, to a lesser degree. Others had better numbers in the regular season. Other stars placed higher in Hart voting or all star voting. But year in and year out they are warriors in the playoffs. All over the ice, every shift they compete at a level where you understand that an athlete actually can give the cliche of 110%.

So prime Kariya in a regular season. For a playoff game, a playoff series, I would take prime Theo.

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