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Around the League 2012-12 I: Gary and Donald sitting in a tree

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Old
12-20-2012, 10:05 AM
  #526
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I had a dream couple nights ago that a CBA deal will be announced next week in a very surprising shock fashion. Nobody will know until Daly announces that we have a deal. It was an awesome dream.

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12-20-2012, 10:12 AM
  #527
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
I had a dream couple nights ago that a CBA deal will be announced next week in a very surprising shock fashion. Nobody will know until Daly announces that we have a deal. It was an awesome dream.
Unfortunately I think we're headed towards a full season lockout. The PA will be going all in that they'll get their best deal as the deadline for a season comes closer, while the NHL will be thinking the same, leading both sides to be "insulted" and no deal being done.

I gotta give it up to the PA for really going out of their way to lose the PR battle though. From their videos complaining about how much Bettman makes, to them trying to get the fans to side with them by comparing millionaires to "billionaire" owners, to their stupidity on Twitter. I don't think hte PA could've done a better job of losing the battle than if they walked up to every fan and slapped them in the face.

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12-20-2012, 10:21 AM
  #528
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Also, if the Union disbands and everyone's a free agent I may just stop watching hockey altogether. This lockout is getting all sorts of ridiculous, especially since I fully expect it all to happen again when the next CBA expires, if they ever decide on a new CBA.

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12-20-2012, 12:31 PM
  #529
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What little progress was made in talks is probably reversed now that they are taking it to the courts.

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12-20-2012, 12:38 PM
  #530
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NHLPA has planned on waiting until the drop dead date. NHL knows NHLPA have planned this, so there isn't any point negotiating until then since Fehr won't give anything up until then, but demand concessions. So the only thing meeting now would accomplish is anger the owners and players because lack of progress, so it's better to not meet.

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12-20-2012, 01:39 PM
  #531
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
NHLPA has planned on waiting until the drop dead date. NHL knows NHLPA have planned this, so there isn't any point negotiating until then since Fehr won't give anything up until then, but demand concessions. So the only thing meeting now would accomplish is anger the owners and players because lack of progress, so it's better to not meet.
Donald Fehr said something completely retarded: "We want a 6-year CBA because a 10 year one would have too many players that weren't able to vote on it, playing under those conditions" or something to that effect.

Just tell people the truth, Don. That you STILL want to be relevant and starting to prepare for more negotiations for more of this non-sense in 4 years rather than wait 8 years when you might not have all your faculties.

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12-20-2012, 03:38 PM
  #532
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Gary Bettman now at 2,323 career games canceled. Only 309 away from Cal Ripken now.
Congrats Gary!

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12-20-2012, 04:17 PM
  #533
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Originally Posted by Avs_19 View Post
Congrats Gary!
Yes...because Gary Bettman forced the owners to have a lockout all 3 times now...

I'm wondering why people believe that he is in control of the Owners? He works for THEM, they don't work for him. If 30 out of 30 NHL Owners (including our "beloved Stan/Josh Kroenke) voted for the Lockout, Bettman's hands are tied.

And the lockouts before, if the majority of the owners vote for a lockout, then the Commissioner (whoever it is) has no choice but to enforce it.

I sometimes feel bad for Gary Bettman. I mean if Tom f'ing Hanks (the one the media calls "The Nicest Guy in Hollywood") were the Commissioner of the NHL he'd still be getting the same crap, even though his hands are tied by his employers.

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12-20-2012, 04:58 PM
  #534
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Originally Posted by RockLobster View Post
Yes...because Gary Bettman forced the owners to have a lockout all 3 times now...

I'm wondering why people believe that he is in control of the Owners? He works for THEM, they don't work for him. If 30 out of 30 NHL Owners (including our "beloved Stan/Josh Kroenke) voted for the Lockout, Bettman's hands are tied.

And the lockouts before, if the majority of the owners vote for a lockout, then the Commissioner (whoever it is) has no choice but to enforce it.

I sometimes feel bad for Gary Bettman. I mean if Tom f'ing Hanks (the one the media calls "The Nicest Guy in Hollywood") were the Commissioner of the NHL he'd still be getting the same crap, even though his hands are tied by his employers.
That's not exactly accurate. After the 94 lockout, Bettman put in place new voting requirements, and also gave himself the power to fine any owner up to $1M for divulging league matters.

He can only be overturned if 3/4 of the owners vote against what he wants to do. He only needs 8 hardline owners to back him. I have no doubt that this played into the unanimous vote to support the lockout, which would have been pointless for a few owners to vote against, and only given the image that they were not united.

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12-20-2012, 05:05 PM
  #535
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
That's not exactly accurate. After the 94 lockout, Bettman put in place new voting requirements, and also gave himself the power to fine any owner up to $1M for divulging league matters.

He can only be overturned if 3/4 of the owners vote against what he wants to do. He only needs 8 hardline owners to back him. I have no doubt that this played into the unanimous vote to support the lockout, which would have been pointless for a few owners to vote against, and only given the image that they were not united.
But at the end of the day, he works for the Owners, if they didn't want him as the NHL Commissioner, I'm sure they would have found someone else.

And these guys are rich enough anyway aren't they? Meaning that if they truly wanted to speak out, they can, because the arguments on the Owner's side is that the team they own is not what brings them their money, they've made their worth outside of hockey.

I just think that he catches a lot of unnecessary flak. Make no mistake, he deserves some of the dislike he gets, but as far as lockouts go, I leave it to the old saying, "It takes two to tango". And the NHL/the Owners/Bettman equally share the blame as the NHLPA/Fehr/Whoever is the Executive Director Before/After Fehr.

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12-20-2012, 05:50 PM
  #536
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Originally Posted by RockLobster View Post
Yes...because Gary Bettman forced the owners to have a lockout all 3 times now...

I'm wondering why people believe that he is in control of the Owners? He works for THEM, they don't work for him. If 30 out of 30 NHL Owners (including our "beloved Stan/Josh Kroenke) voted for the Lockout, Bettman's hands are tied.

And the lockouts before, if the majority of the owners vote for a lockout, then the Commissioner (whoever it is) has no choice but to enforce it.

I sometimes feel bad for Gary Bettman. I mean if Tom f'ing Hanks (the one the media calls "The Nicest Guy in Hollywood") were the Commissioner of the NHL he'd still be getting the same crap, even though his hands are tied by his employers.
That's like me saying Donald Fehr isn't an ***hole and he shouldn't be getting any of the blame here because he is just working for the players. They hired him and he is just doing what is in their best interest for years to come. Give me a break. Both Bettman and Fehr shouldn't be allowed near any sports league.

You don't need to feel too bad for Bettman. I'm sure he can handle a few boos at the draft and at arenas around the league. The $8M he makes per year for being the worst commissioner in sports will probably help ease the pain.

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12-20-2012, 06:12 PM
  #537
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Originally Posted by Avs_19 View Post
That's like me saying Donald Fehr isn't an ***hole and he shouldn't be getting any of the blame here because he is just working for the players. They hired him and he is just doing what is in their best interest for years to come. Give me a break. Both Bettman and Fehr shouldn't be allowed near any sports league.

You don't need to feel too bad for Bettman. I'm sure he can handle a few boos at the draft and at arenas around the league. The $8M he makes per year for being the worst commissioner in sports will probably help ease the pain.
My post just before yours does clearly state that I lay the blame at the feet of both sides. I think that Bettman just gets the brunt for no reason, I never said he was completely blameless.

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12-20-2012, 08:07 PM
  #538
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A few days ago Josh Gorges said that the owners are killing our sports , that they are killing a very good product , the NHL was one of the best pro league in the past 7 years . " we did a lot of progress to increase the revenus in a short period of time. with a lockout they are killing our sports "

That was just a short part of an article that was in the Québec Media.

http://tvasports.ca/hockey/lnh/les-p...sport-20122012

so you're gonna agree with me that it's a just another player speaking out loud trying the get the fans on his side . It's fair enough for them to do so and i'm not against it, since it's their right .

What's new, is a blog of a journalist from this webside :


http://tvasports.ca/patrickcaisse/re...orges-20122012

it's a translation on my part , i hope you will forgive me for the typos and grammar errors .

Quote:

Reply to Josh Gorges

Dear Josh Gorges you said something to my collegue last wednesday ...

They ( the onwers of the NHL ) are killing a very good product. The NHL is or was one of the best pro league in the last 7 years . We did amazing progress to increase the revenus in a short period of time and with a lockout they are killing our sports.

They can repeat all they want that they( the owners ) did a lot of concessions but we all know that it's bs. all they ( owners ) did was to give back a little compare to the first porposition who wasnt logical ,it didnt even look like a true offer .

Caisse :

I cant let those words go without a reply .

I understand both side's POV since the start of the lockout.

The first offering of the NHL was actually ridiculous, but say they have "just given some money" for bad faith.

The first offer proposed 46% income to players, no full amount and some details disadvantageous for player contracts.

The latest offering, it proposed a 50-50 split of revenues, an amount of $ 300 million full details and disadvantageous for player contracts have almost all been removed except for the maximum duration of five years.

True, it is not as good as it was for you last year, but it remains an excellent offer. It is a collective agreement that 99.99% of employees around the world would like to have in your pocket.

You say that the offer "kill the middle class." When you say "middle class", you talk about players like you, who is a second pair defenceman in the National Hockey League, but who wins $ 3.9 million per season.

With this new agreement, a player like you may earn a salary of 2 or $ 2.5 million per year.

Where is the problem? Earn more than $ 2 million per season to play hockey. Earn more than $ 2 million per season while you're not a player that people come to the rink expressly to see him play.

Well I love you Josh. You're a very good defender and a team needs players like you to go through, to go to war. But it is not players like you who draw crowds

These are not players like you who sell thousands and thousands of sweaters. A player like Sidney Crosby draws crowds, sells thousands of sweaters, thousands of items in his likeness. The owner gives him a salary of $ 8.7 million, but it will still profit from him.

With the collective agreement proposed by the NHL, stars continue to earn big bucks. Players like you actually gain less money, but can we agree to say that you would not complain, far from it.

So please Josh, when you say that the owners are killing hockey, is it possible to include players from the same batch? I would even go further and say that it is you, the players, who currently kill our beautiful sport of hockey.

It is up to you to accept the offer on the table.


Thanks

Just wanted to share a blog from a journalist of the Québec medias

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12-20-2012, 11:46 PM
  #539
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Interesting article.

I have to admit, professional sports is one of the few businesses left where its employees still share huge in profits. Everywhere else it's the little man making peanuts and the CEO taking home all the $$$$.

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12-21-2012, 06:51 AM
  #540
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I understand that athletes feel they are entitled to the money because of what they put their bodies through and I can't help but think I may feel the same in their shoes... but this is just getting ridiculous.

They will earn more money when the sport as a whole grows. Can they not see the writing on the wall? It's already happened once, it'll happen again over the next CBA. The NHL will start at a lower Cap and grow up to 80-90 mil by the end of the 6-8 year term.

By then players like Gorges will once again be earning 4-5mil, if not more. Because the sport will be earning more.

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12-21-2012, 10:49 PM
  #541
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This is not a surprise to see the players voted in favor of the dissolving of their union.
That's just one more move in the game of chess who will lead, hopefully, to a settlement soon.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=412078

Quote:

Several players have confirmed to TSN that the NHL Players' Association's membership voted 706-22 on Friday to give the union the power to file a disclaimer of interest by Jan. 2.

The NHLPA's executive board now has the option of dissolving their union - which would allow players to file a class-action anti-trust lawsuit against the league.

....

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12-21-2012, 10:56 PM
  #542
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Those 22 people have my admiration.

But wow, 728 NHLPA members?

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12-21-2012, 11:21 PM
  #543
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Those 22 people have my admiration.

But wow, 728 NHLPA members?


yeah i think that's something like 97% in favor . Right now it doesnt mean a thing , other than giving Fehr the green light to make a move and destroy the NHLPA.

I dont see that happening because the players knows that it will be a long and painful battle in court . Giving Fehr the green light to do it AND actually doing it for real is two different things ... unless they do like the NBAPA did .

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12-21-2012, 11:35 PM
  #544
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This is not a surprise to see the players voted in favor of the dissolving of their union.
That's just one more move in the game of chess who will lead, hopefully, to a settlement soon.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=412078
Who said the players aren't united? Also if anyone can explain what this exactly means, as I'm not quite sure I get it.

The PA sacrifices themselves and takes the fight to the courts? How would that help?

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12-21-2012, 11:40 PM
  #545
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Who said the players aren't united? Also if anyone can explain what this exactly means, as I'm not quite sure I get it.

The PA sacrifices themselves and takes the fight to the courts? How would that help?
It won't at all. Court systems, especially USA court system takes years, upon years to get everything settled for huge cases like this one. It's just a tactic for negotiating just like NHL's counter lawsuit justifying the lockout, both (well one does) sides know they have no time for this to drag on.

I am surprised though by margin, even if it makes no difference. Shows that a lot of players are angry and letting their emotions get the better of them IMO. If you made a poll before the lockout happened, I am very sure we would see a substantially difference in the numbers.

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12-21-2012, 11:57 PM
  #546
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Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
It won't at all. Court systems, especially USA court system takes years, upon years to get everything settled for huge cases like this one. It's just a tactic for negotiating just like NHL's counter lawsuit justifying the lockout, both (well one does) sides know they have no time for this to drag on.

I am surprised though by margin, even if it makes no difference. Shows that a lot of players are angry and letting their emotions get the better of them IMO. If you made a poll before the lockout happened, I am very sure we would see a substantially difference in the numbers.
Ah, I see so it's the PA blowing smoke.

You're assuming a lot SEPH. These guys are grown ass men, they should know nothing is personal when it comes to business. Unless, ofcourse if your name is Micheal Scott.

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12-21-2012, 11:57 PM
  #547
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenchy View Post
A few days ago Josh Gorges said that the owners are killing our sports , that they are killing a very good product , the NHL was one of the best pro league in the past 7 years . " we did a lot of progress to increase the revenus in a short period of time. with a lockout they are killing our sports "

That was just a short part of an article that was in the Québec Media.

http://tvasports.ca/hockey/lnh/les-p...sport-20122012

so you're gonna agree with me that it's a just another player speaking out loud trying the get the fans on his side . It's fair enough for them to do so and i'm not against it, since it's their right .

What's new, is a blog of a journalist from this webside :


http://tvasports.ca/patrickcaisse/re...orges-20122012

it's a translation on my part , i hope you will forgive me for the typos and grammar errors .




Just wanted to share a blog from a journalist of the Québec medias
This is the same mentality that most pro owners have, where they compare their salary to the millions players make. This guy tries to make a point that the millions George's is making is a lot, but negates the million plus he would be losing in his example.

It's completely inconsistent in this example as well as the fact the majority of owners are making much more than the players and are locking out the players so they don't make a little less to help the handful of struggling teams Bettman insists on keeping in bad markets. Why are these arguments only directed towards the players, and never the people making way more than the players?

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12-22-2012, 12:06 AM
  #548
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Originally Posted by Ronaldo View Post
Ah, I see so it's the PA blowing smoke.

You're assuming a lot SEPH. These guys are grown ass men, they should know nothing is personal when it comes to business. Unless, ofcourse if your name is Micheal Scott.
I agree, but based on the PA and what the players have done so far (via twitter, media) they're acting like clowns, to say the least.

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12-22-2012, 12:11 AM
  #549
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I would say both sides, have behaved badly at times but this is to be expected when relationships hit a rough patch.

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12-22-2012, 12:14 AM
  #550
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
This is the same mentality that most pro owners have, where they compare their salary to the millions players make. This guy tries to make a point that the millions George's is making is a lot, but negates the million plus he would be losing in his example.

It's completely inconsistent in this example as well as the fact the majority of owners are making much more than the players and are locking out the players so they don't make a little less to help the handful of struggling teams Bettman insists on keeping in bad markets. Why are these arguments only directed towards the players, and never the people making way more than the players?
That outlook, that the players are losing money, seems to neglect the fact that the owners are the ones that are taking the majority of the financial risks. If their teams lose money, the players are still going to get paid, they are the ones that have to spend the money to make their teams more attractive to fans, and they also risk a lot of money if they want to upgrade arenas or even more to get new ones.

The argument seems to be from fans that players should shut up because they make millions, the players seems to be that the owners should shut up because they make "billions". Honestly, both sides should shut up, they should get a really good team of financial/market experts in as arbitrators and figure out something that will work longterm.

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