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Pittsburgh - Detroit

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Old
12-19-2012, 11:39 AM
  #26
Eternal Sunshine
 
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I personally think playing in the Eastern Conference on a line with Sid or Geno would make Franzen better for a longer period of time, probably bloating up his stats to make his contract look like one of the best ever, while Orpik's play of taking and giving hits, blocking shots and the like will probably make him less useful a lot quicker.

I think at this very moment in time the needs for both teams are there, but I understand why both GMs back away. Shero doesn't want to have to shell out that much cash if Franzen breaks down/ the CBA changes (retirement doesn't allow contracts to be voided) and Holland would probably prefer to find a younger version of Orpik, as to get more mileage out of that kind of trade.

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Old
12-19-2012, 11:44 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Looks prettier than their current defense.

I'd do the deal from a Pittsburgh perspective.
Current defense is much better than what people blow it up to be.

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Originally Posted by irishtemper View Post
Well people are worried/don't like the contract because of the length....not the 4M cap hit. There is no guarantee Franzen's game will be able to translate when he is on the last year of the contract. I mean just because he's big and Swedish does not make him Holmstrom who could still be really serviceable at his old age.
Well aware that they don't like his length. However, by the time he's off that value, $4M wont be that much.

Hell, in today's NHL it's not even that much.

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Old
12-19-2012, 12:04 PM
  #28
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Franzen is an excellent scorer and is not at all shabby at defense, and I sincerely doubt that he'll play out his entire contract. In the meantime, his contract is a steal at less than $4m per season.

Orpik is a good defensive defenseman, but not a standout one. Even in his younger, better years, he fell only into the 'above-average' category.

No thanks.

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Old
12-19-2012, 12:14 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
Franzen is an excellent scorer and is not at all shabby at defense, and I sincerely doubt that he'll play out his entire contract. In the meantime, his contract is a steal at less than $4m per season.

Orpik is a good defensive defenseman, but not a standout one. Even in his younger, better years, he fell only into the 'above-average' category.

No thanks.
Ehh, might not matter if he plays out his contact. The league wants to make that count against the cap regardless.

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Old
12-19-2012, 01:00 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Eternal Sunshine View Post
I personally think playing in the Eastern Conference on a line with Sid or Geno would make Franzen better for a longer period of time, probably bloating up his stats to make his contract look like one of the best ever, while Orpik's play of taking and giving hits, blocking shots and the like will probably make him less useful a lot quicker.

I think at this very moment in time the needs for both teams are there, but I understand why both GMs back away. Shero doesn't want to have to shell out that much cash if Franzen breaks down/ the CBA changes (retirement doesn't allow contracts to be voided) and Holland would probably prefer to find a younger version of Orpik, as to get more mileage out of that kind of trade.
I know he'd probably produce more on a line with Sid or Geno but not too more. Lets not forget he plays with Datsyuk in Detroit (even though I want him with Zetterberg).

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12-19-2012, 01:38 PM
  #31
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Done.

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Old
12-19-2012, 05:08 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by 13 HockeyTown 40 View Post
I know he'd probably produce more on a line with Sid or Geno but not too more. Lets not forget he plays with Datsyuk in Detroit (even though I want him with Zetterberg).
I don't think he could be less inspired here, though. Seems like he has tuned Babs out imo, he doesn't show up a lot of nights. We've all seen what he can be, and its scary. What we've been getting is pedestrian. Maybe Bylsma can awaken the beast?

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12-19-2012, 06:38 PM
  #33
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Personally, I think the lockout is going to do wonders for Orpik's game. I think the extra time off will give him his old mobility and excellent skating. He's played through a lot of ******** the past two seasons, his body needed to recuperate.

The same could probably be said for Franzen. These guys are both on power house teams that have been getting much shorter breaks than most and have played a lot of playoff hockey during their prime.

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Old
12-19-2012, 07:46 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Eternal Sunshine View Post
I don't think he could be less inspired here, though. Seems like he has tuned Babs out imo, he doesn't show up a lot of nights. We've all seen what he can be, and its scary. What we've been getting is pedestrian. Maybe Bylsma can awaken the beast?
Good point but Franzen is too valuable to the Wings to get another ~#3 defenseman.

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Old
12-20-2012, 09:19 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by 13 HockeyTown 40 View Post
Good point but Franzen is too valuable to the Wings to get another ~#3 defenseman.
I agree. I'd want at least a younger version of Orpik. If not a younger and better player.

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Old
12-21-2012, 02:20 PM
  #36
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Would love to see Franzen on the Pens but that contract he signed until 20-21 is way too long

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Old
12-21-2012, 10:40 PM
  #37
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Hell I'd do it for sure. Orpik isn't the same and he's no longer needed in Pittsburgh in my opinion. Deryk Engelland brings everything that Orpik brings on a much cheaper contract. I'd swap Orpik for Franzen. It'd be a good chance to give our younger guys the ice time that they will soon deserve on D. I think the mule would be a good fit in our lineup.

Also seems like great value for both sides.
Engelland for Franzen+...

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Old
12-22-2012, 08:24 AM
  #38
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Engelland for Franzen+...
Something must be wrong with my phone it's not displaying the sarcasm icons.

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Old
12-22-2012, 08:53 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
Franzen is an excellent scorer and is not at all shabby at defense, and I sincerely doubt that he'll play out his entire contract. In the meantime, his contract is a steal at less than $4m per season.

Orpik is a good defensive defenseman, but not a standout one. Even in his younger, better years, he fell only into the 'above-average' category.

No thanks.
It is true that he is an above-average defenseman. But his value is greatly magnified by the type of physical game he plays. As a player, he is not quite worth Franzen. But orpik is on an excellent contract. Franzen is on a bad contract, which helps even out the deal. It's a close call.

It is close enough that need really dictates the deal. The Pens simply can't afford to lose a top 4 defenseman right now, so they can't make the deal, even if the return is a good one. It would have to be a very big win. Penguin fans seem to be in a constant delusional state that 2-3 of their unproven defensive prospects could jump right into the NHL and play a good top 4 defense spot to replace Michalek, Orpik and Martin. In fact, the two playing in the AHL, Depres and Morrow, have looked poor even at the minor league level.

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Old
12-22-2012, 09:18 AM
  #40
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If this happened Pitts D would be hilarious

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Old
12-22-2012, 10:43 AM
  #41
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If this happened Pitts D would be hilarious
What people are missing is that Pitt's d was hilarious last year when it mattered, and Orpik's ****** play was a big contributor to that.

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12-22-2012, 11:04 AM
  #42
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What people are missing is that Pitt's d was hilarious last year when it mattered, and Orpik's ****** play was a big contributor to that.
Orpiks ****** play is better than Lovejoy and Engellands best

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12-22-2012, 11:45 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by hlaverty06 View Post
Orpiks ****** play is better than Lovejoy and Engellands best
Lovejoy almost certainly won't be part of the Pens organization whenever the NHL starts up. Engelland was better than Orpik in the regular season and playoffs last year. True story.

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Old
12-22-2012, 12:28 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by hlaverty06 View Post
Orpiks ****** play is better than Lovejoy and Engellands best
Your contributions are insightful and all, but Pens fans have a pretty good knowledge.

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Old
12-23-2012, 12:09 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by limite View Post
It is true that he is an above-average defenseman. But his value is greatly magnified by the type of physical game he plays. As a player, he is not quite worth Franzen. But orpik is on an excellent contract. Franzen is on a bad contract, which helps even out the deal. It's a close call.
Franzen's contract is fine now and will be fine for many more seasons. And the now matters more. So no, it's not a deal-evener.

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Old
12-23-2012, 12:12 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
Franzen's contract is fine now and will be fine for many more seasons. And the now matters more. So no, it's not a deal-evener.
When you consider the fact that $4M will be peanuts by the time his contract ends, it's not that big of a deal.

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Old
12-23-2012, 12:21 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
I don't see why Detroit gives up their best goal-scoring winger in a straight deal for a 32 year-old defenseman who is good defenively, but absolutely isn't worth a big 30-goal, 55-60 point winger.

Orpik certainly would be an attractive piece, but he alone isn't worth Franzen on player value and team needs. Nyquist or Brunner might - MIGHT - be able to fill Hudler's role. The Wings signed Samuelsson as well, and it looks like he'll be playing third-line; that's not a 50-point season like the 1st/2nd line years he's been playing. And the Wings needed to add a top-six forward on top of last season's roster as it stood; so if you assume last year's roster is fully retained, then the Wings have Dats, Z, Flip, Hudler, and Franzen. After that it's a question mark of "does Cleary recover?","is Nyquist legit? is Brunner legit? is Tatar legit?" etc. Samuelsson effectively replaced Hudler on this list (though he's after Franzen) but Sammy is getting up there in years and there's no guarantee he will keep on keeping on. So Detroit's top-six would be Dats, Z, Flip, Sammy, and two of Nyquist/Brunner/Tatar. Can't say I'm thrilled at the sound of it.

Especially if they push through that retirement cap hit thing (meaning that any extra years on Franzen's contract after retirement would still hit Detroit).

Pittsburgh absolutely needs to add to make this viable.
Aside from the length of the mule's contract it's not an outrageous deal IMO.

Detroit has the offensive prospects in Nyquist, Brunner, Tatar, and Ferraro to absorb the loss of the mule and guys like Orpik tend to age better as well.

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Old
12-23-2012, 12:33 AM
  #48
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Aside from the length of the mule's contract it's not an outrageous deal IMO.

Detroit has the offensive prospects in Nyquist, Brunner, Tatar, and Ferraro to absorb the loss of the mule and guys like Orpik tend to age better as well.
I'm not opposed to trading Franzen for the right deal.

With that said, Nyquist is "replacing" Hudler. Nobody knows if Brunner will translate well to the NHL, and then we've got to hope two other prospects can come in and more or less begin to fill the shoes of Datsyuk and Zetterberg as they begin to step down.

While our offensive pool is loaded, it's not like there are no spots to fill. You have to take into account that Datsyuk and Zetterberg's roles are gonna diminish in 2-3 years.

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Old
12-23-2012, 12:37 AM
  #49
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and guys like Orpik tend to age better as well.
Really... What NHL have you been watching?

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