HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk > Polls - (hockey-related only)
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2

Best Playmaker: Crosby vs. Forsberg vs. Jagr

View Poll Results: Who's the best playmaker?
Crosby 78 33.33%
Forsberg 68 29.06%
Jagr 88 37.61%
Voters: 234. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-19-2012, 12:59 PM
  #76
Jonimaus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Lund
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,638
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nowhereman View Post
The guy's at least equal to Forsberg and not that far off from Jagr. I voted #68 but, sorry, it's far from "laughable".
Well, depends how you view at it. Jagr is pretty clearly better than the other 2, and thus should have 100% of the votes. At least that is my opinion.

Jonimaus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2012, 01:05 PM
  #77
Sour Shoes
lol u mad cam?
 
Sour Shoes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Home of Black+Gold
Posts: 2,408
vCash: 500
i now know that if i disagree with the results of any poll, i can just claim canadian bias or youth bias and everything will be ok.

Sour Shoes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2012, 01:46 PM
  #78
Fred Taylor
The Cyclone
 
Fred Taylor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,089
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Frankly I'm shocked Forsberg is far in last. Playmaking was his thing, I mean the guys career high in goals is a measly 30 - Henrik Sedin isn't even far behind.

For me it's Forsberg easily, but Jagr and Crosby are both better players overall.
I agree. I actually thought it would be him or Jagr that would win this poll.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nowhereman View Post
The guy's at least equal to Forsberg and not that far off from Jagr. I voted #68 but, sorry, it's far from "laughable".
It says you voted for Crosby. Mistake perhaps?

Fred Taylor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2012, 05:14 PM
  #79
ToddRundgren
A Wizard A True Star
 
ToddRundgren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Somerville MA
Country: United States
Posts: 12,931
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montreal Shadow View Post
I think it's more youth bias than Canadian bias.
I think it's hfboards well-known hatred of Forsberg.


ToddRundgren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2012, 05:18 PM
  #80
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 41,077
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Frankly I'm shocked Forsberg is far in last. Playmaking was his thing, I mean the guys career high in goals is a measly 30 - Henrik Sedin isn't even far behind.

For me it's Forsberg easily, but Jagr and Crosby are both better players overall.
Yeah, I agree with all that you say here. Forsberg has a rep as a "complete player" around here, but he was really a playmaker first and foremost. And I do think he edges out Jagr and Crosby as a playmaker alone.

TheDevilMadeMe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2012, 05:35 PM
  #81
AD1066
Registered User
 
AD1066's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,707
vCash: 500
For the purpose of this poll:

Crosby = Jagr < Forsberg. I can't really choose between Jagr or Crosby as a playmaker, but it was Forsberg's bread and butter. He scored what, 30 goals twice?

If you asked who was the best player, I'd say Jagr no doubt, with Crosby slightly edging Forsberg for 2nd.

AD1066 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2012, 05:38 PM
  #82
Ferros
Registered User
 
Ferros's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Country: Sweden
Posts: 393
vCash: 500
Since this poll is about "best playmaker" I voted Forsberg without thinking twice about it. If it would have been "best player" I would have voted Jagr though. Really don't see why people would vote Crosby over either of the other two. Judging from the results I think people don't read what the poll is actually about and just votes for whoever they think is the best player.

Ferros is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-20-2012, 12:07 AM
  #83
TAnnala
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Oulu
Posts: 11,940
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nowhereman View Post
The guy's at least equal to Forsberg and not that far off from Jagr. I voted #68 but, sorry, it's far from "laughable".
Absolutely. I am not s big fan of Crosby, but he did put up 80+ assists.

TAnnala is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-20-2012, 09:22 AM
  #84
Montreal Shadow
Registered User
 
Montreal Shadow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,989
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AD1066 View Post
For the purpose of this poll:

Crosby = Jagr < Forsberg. I can't really choose between Jagr or Crosby as a playmaker, but it was Forsberg's bread and butter. He scored what, 30 goals twice?

If you asked who was the best player, I'd say Jagr no doubt, with Crosby slightly edging Forsberg for 2nd.
So because Forsberg was a mediocre goalscorer, it somehow makes him a better playmaker? Interesting logic.

Montreal Shadow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-20-2012, 09:40 AM
  #85
Jonimaus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Lund
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,638
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montreal Shadow View Post
So because Forsberg was a mediocre goalscorer, it somehow makes him a better playmaker? Interesting logic.
Maybe the point was winning art ross without scoring a lot of goals or something.

Jonimaus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-20-2012, 01:05 PM
  #86
AD1066
Registered User
 
AD1066's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,707
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montreal Shadow View Post
So because Forsberg was a mediocre goalscorer, it somehow makes him a better playmaker? Interesting logic.
My point was that probably a larger percentage of his points came from assists. Not that that means he produced more on an absolute scale.

But I'm looking now at the highest adjusted assists in a single season (Hockey-Reference):
Jagr: 94, 84, 77, 74, 66, 66, 66
Crosby: 84, 71
Forsberg: 85, 83, 76, 76

Depending on what you think of adjusted stats, one could make a good argument for Jagr.

AD1066 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-20-2012, 07:13 PM
  #87
silkyjohnson50
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 9,039
vCash: 500
Jagr might not have been the pure playmaker that Forsberg was, but he was more effective at it at his peak due to his overall offensive game and talent. Forsberg was a brilliant puck possession player, but Jagr was on a level of his own.

While I believe that Forsberg seen the ice better than Jagr, I'd still rank them: Jagr, Forsberg, then Crosby.

silkyjohnson50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-20-2012, 09:08 PM
  #88
livewell68
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,044
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonimaus View Post
Maybe the point was winning art ross without scoring a lot of goals or something.
Considering that the Art Ross itself only took 106 Pts to win, that is not saying that much.

Jagr's peak assists seasons are better than Forsberg's.

Jagr has 87 and 83 to Forsberg's 86 and 77.

Jagr also finished top 3 in assists a total of 6 times, something neither Forsberg nor Crosby (yet) have done.

I'll take Jagr's 83 assists (total of 127 Pts) in 1998-99 playing with Kip Miller and Hrdina over Forsberg's 77 assists (106 Pts) playing with Hejduk and Tanguay anyday of the week.

livewell68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-21-2012, 02:17 PM
  #89
Jonimaus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Lund
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,638
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by livewell68 View Post
Considering that the Art Ross itself only took 106 Pts to win, that is not saying that much.

Jagr's peak assists seasons are better than Forsberg's.

Jagr has 87 and 83 to Forsberg's 86 and 77.

Jagr also finished top 3 in assists a total of 6 times, something neither Forsberg nor Crosby (yet) have done.

I'll take Jagr's 83 assists (total of 127 Pts) in 1998-99 playing with Kip Miller and Hrdina over Forsberg's 77 assists (106 Pts) playing with Hejduk and Tanguay anyday of the week.
Don't need to explain that to me, if you check I voted Jagr. I just explained his point, and I do see where he is comming from.

Jonimaus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-21-2012, 03:37 PM
  #90
AD1066
Registered User
 
AD1066's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,707
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonimaus View Post
Don't need to explain that to me, if you check I voted Jagr. I just explained his point, and I do see where he is comming from.
I'm actually leaning towards Jagr at this point.

But you're right, earlier I was trying to make the point that Crosby and Jagr seem more balanced between goalscoring and assists, while Forsberg never put up goals like the other two.

AD1066 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-21-2012, 04:08 PM
  #91
AD1066
Registered User
 
AD1066's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,707
vCash: 500
I'm looking at assists per game right now. Best finishes are:

Crosby (06-07): 1.063
Jagr (95-96): 1.061
Forsberg (95-96): 1.049
Forsberg (02-03): 1.027
Jagr (98-99): 1.025
Forsberg (03-04): 0.939
Forsberg (05-06): 0.933
Forsberg (97-98): 0.917
Crosby (08-09): 0.909
Crosby (07-08): 0.907
Forsberg (96-97): 0.892
Jagr (97-98): 0.870
Forsberg (98-99): 0.859
Jagr (99-00): 0.857
Jagr (00-01): 0.852
Forsberg (00-01): 0.849

Obviously this doesn't account for league-wide scoring or potentially skewed stats from playing fewer games. Maybe if I have time later I'll try to normalize them. And then there's still the question of games played.

AD1066 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-21-2012, 04:27 PM
  #92
Kane One
HFB Partner
 
Kane One's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Brooklyn, New NY
Country: United States
Posts: 29,272
vCash: 600
Jagr
Forsberg
Crosby

__________________
Kane One is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-21-2012, 09:36 PM
  #93
livewell68
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,044
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AD1066 View Post
I'm looking at assists per game right now. Best finishes are:

Crosby (06-07): 1.063
Jagr (95-96): 1.061
Forsberg (95-96): 1.049
Forsberg (02-03): 1.027
Jagr (98-99): 1.025
Forsberg (03-04): 0.939
Forsberg (05-06): 0.933
Forsberg (97-98): 0.917
Crosby (08-09): 0.909
Crosby (07-08): 0.907
Forsberg (96-97): 0.892
Jagr (97-98): 0.870
Forsberg (98-99): 0.859
Jagr (99-00): 0.857
Jagr (00-01): 0.852
Forsberg (00-01): 0.849

Obviously this doesn't account for league-wide scoring or potentially skewed stats from playing fewer games. Maybe if I have time later I'll try to normalize them. And then there's still the question of games played.
Exactly. Forsberg's impressive stats are from 1995-96 and 2002-03 for assists per game to games played ration.

Outside of the 1999-00 season, all other 4 seasons for Jagr on this list where when he played more than 75 games.

Forsberg's only played 60 games in 2005-06 and 39 games in 2003-04.

The more games you play in a season, the less likely your per game stats stay high.

livewell68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2012, 08:13 AM
  #94
nik jr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Country: Congo-Kinshasa
Posts: 10,552
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by silkyjohnson50 View Post
Jagr might not have been the pure playmaker that Forsberg was, but he was more effective at it at his peak due to his overall offensive game and talent. Forsberg was a brilliant puck possession player, but Jagr was on a level of his own.

While I believe that Forsberg seen the ice better than Jagr, I'd still rank them: Jagr, Forsberg, then Crosby.
agree

you could say that jagr had more offensive TOI, b/c he kept the puck in the offensive zone so much.

another factor is that jagr generally had more TOI than crosby and forsberg.

OTOH, forsberg had more offensive support than the others.

nik jr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2012, 12:33 PM
  #95
CHGoalie27
GWAAARRRRRRR
 
CHGoalie27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SoFLA
Country: United States
Posts: 6,880
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AD1066 View Post
Jagr is a notch above the other two, at least in my opinion. I think we take him for granted sometimes, because he's still playing.
Y'know, I took a lot of time to think of my vote on this one, and when I scrolled down to see what others said, this one struck me.

I think the vote should have probably been Malkin in Crosby's place, in which case I would've voted Jagr. As good of playmakers as Jaromir, Geno, and Foppa were, I think Mario, Joe, and Sid were/are better playmakers than their assistant captains. (Maybe make that a somewhat sequel to this poll.)

CHGoalie27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2012, 12:38 PM
  #96
CHGoalie27
GWAAARRRRRRR
 
CHGoalie27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SoFLA
Country: United States
Posts: 6,880
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferros View Post
Since this poll is about "best playmaker" I voted Forsberg without thinking twice about it. If it would have been "best player" I would have voted Jagr though. Really don't see why people would vote Crosby over either of the other two. Judging from the results I think people don't read what the poll is actually about and just votes for whoever they think is the best player.
That's unfair, as you come across that you might be the only valid opinion by a cop out cheap shot.

If you don't think Crosby is at least as good of a playmaker as the other two...

CHGoalie27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2012, 02:46 PM
  #97
livewell68
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,044
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHGoalie72 View Post
That's unfair, as you come across that you might be the only valid opinion by a cop out cheap shot.

If you don't think Crosby is at least as good of a playmaker as the other two...
He's actually not. Crosby has had one elite playmaking season (when he didn't even lead the league in assists) while Jagr has had a good 6-7 elite playmaking seasons including 3 in which he led the league and Forsberg has had about 5-6 elite playmaking seasons and led the league once.

livewell68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2012, 05:49 PM
  #98
Human
cynic
 
Human's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Bandwagon
Posts: 5,293
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonimaus View Post
Canadians are like what, 80% of HF? Only reason I can think of. That he even has 1 vote is laughable.
and why exactly is that?

Human is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2012, 06:46 PM
  #99
Lebowski
Registered User
 
Lebowski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 6,216
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AD1066 View Post
I'm looking at assists per game right now. Best finishes are:

Crosby (06-07): 1.063
Jagr (95-96): 1.061
Forsberg (95-96): 1.049
Forsberg (02-03): 1.027
Jagr (98-99): 1.025
Forsberg (03-04): 0.939
Forsberg (05-06): 0.933
Forsberg (97-98): 0.917
Crosby (08-09): 0.909
Crosby (07-08): 0.907
Forsberg (96-97): 0.892
Jagr (97-98): 0.870
Forsberg (98-99): 0.859
Jagr (99-00): 0.857
Jagr (00-01): 0.852
Forsberg (00-01): 0.849

Obviously this doesn't account for league-wide scoring or potentially skewed stats from playing fewer games. Maybe if I have time later I'll try to normalize them. And then there's still the question of games played.
This simply proves that the sheer amount of assists isn't the best way to evaluate the qualities of a playmaker. Crosby had his best assist ratio in 07, but find me any Pens fan who would claim Crosby actually was a better playmaker in 07 than today. You won't find much, if any. That's because Crosby diversified his game and doesn't rely as much on assists to put up points, but that doesn't make him any less of a playmaker. On the opposite, I think it shows how much hockey IQ he has to be able to simply flip a switch and suddenly become one of the best goal scorer in the league.

For that reason, I put him in front of Forsberg, who was a full-time playmaker that didn't really put superior numbers to a more versatile Crosby. Jagr and Crosby is a different question though. Would probably take further analysis to determine who is the best by taking into account the era in which they played, the quality of line-mates, etc.

Lebowski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-22-2012, 06:48 PM
  #100
Jonimaus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Lund
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,638
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Human View Post
and why exactly is that?
Because he's not as good playmaker as the other 2, at least right now?

Jonimaus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:36 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.