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Old
12-19-2012, 09:16 PM
  #26
Dellstrom
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I'd stick with Caron... Franson likely wouldn't make the team while Caron has proven he's effective at an NHL level.

He's having a bad year, but it's the AHL. He's already established chemistry with Kelly and Peverley, and I think he'll beat out Bourque/Spooner for the 3rd line LW spot, it's really his to lose. His play style is what Claude loves. He's good defensively, kills penalties, has a big body and started using it more last season, and has a very underrated offensive game. He's nothing past a 3rd liner but he's a good player, and is perfect for our 3rd line.

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Old
12-20-2012, 04:31 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Has Caron really fallen that much?
Some fans appear to want Caron to be a first line 40 goal scorer since he was drafted in the first round. If he is a 15-20 goal scoring awesome defensive player, he is going to be a bust to them.

After a good first 6 or so games in the AHL this year, he really has done nothing so some people appear to be ready to throw him under the bus at every opportunity.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he is going to be a great player or anything like that, but purely on his defense and penalty killing he will always have a place on an NHL team, if he manages to score like he has shown he can at times he will be very valuable. 15-20 goals from a defensive 3rd liner is not bad.

As a Bruins fan I wouldn't want to see this deal go through unless the Bruins added a wing who is better than Caron, to take the position Caron plays on the Bruins a player needs to play above average defense. I am not sure who the Bruins have in their system that would be able to step in and provide the defense along with the same offense Caron does even though Caron's offense is inconsistent. When Caron plays well offensively he is one of the best forwards on the team, unfortunately those times have been few so far.

Franson has not impressed me in the 15 or so games I have seen him play, not enough to trade Caron for him. I realize that most of the games with Franson I have seen have been the Bruins beating the Leafs and that the entire team looked bad against the Bruins last year, but I don't see Franson as a need for the Bruins while Caron is a need.

This seems like a trade just for the sake of making a trade.


Last edited by nmbr_24: 12-21-2012 at 03:24 AM.
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Old
12-20-2012, 02:13 PM
  #28
VeddarRants
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Franson wouldn't be able to crack the Bruins pro roster. And if he did, he'd be riding the pine a lot, like he was last year but more.

Chara
Seidenburg
Ference
Boychuk
McQuaid
Hamilton/Krug/Johnson

What's the point of trading away a 22 year old former first rounder for another guy who's going to be fighting for the 6th and 7th defensive spot on the team? And on top of that suck salad, you sprinkle on the bacon bits of a third rounder in a deep draft... why would Boston ever do that?


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Old
12-20-2012, 04:49 PM
  #29
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I wouldn't add the pick. If Franson could pick up his defensive play then with his size he'd be alright. Good competition for the #6 with Hamilton. Not sure then if it is worth giving up the player slotted in to be 3rd line winger, however.

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Old
12-21-2012, 02:11 PM
  #30
Tim Vezina Thomas
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I'd definitely do this straight up if we had someone else to play on our third line. Right now we have Chris Bourque as our 13th forward and other rookies who havent proven anything....can't afford to do it now.

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Old
12-21-2012, 02:28 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
I'd definitely do this straight up if we had someone else to play on our third line. Right now we have Chris Bourque as our 13th forward and other rookies who havent proven anything....can't afford to do it now.
TVT, not to mention where does Franson fit into on Boston's blue line?

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Old
12-21-2012, 04:36 PM
  #32
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Leafs do this in a heartbeat.

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Old
12-21-2012, 04:53 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by 7even View Post
Oh right I forgot that a defenseman's value is limited strictly to his defensive acumen, just like forwards should be evaluated solely on their ability to play offense.
Mr. Sarcasm.

But you make a good point.

With regards to Franson, his defensive game isn't even that bad. Totally overblown. Only reason he didn't stick in the top 6 was because management felt obligated to leave Komi in the line-up.

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Old
12-22-2012, 02:03 PM
  #34
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Mr. Sarcasm.

But you make a good point.

With regards to Franson, his defensive game isn't even that bad. Totally overblown. Only reason he didn't stick in the top 6 was because management felt obligated to leave Komi in the line-up.
Obligated to leave Komi in?? Is the same organization that felt "obligated" to dump over paid Jeff Finger in the AHL?

Lets stop with the excuses, Franson didn't cut it on the Leafs blue line,, that doesn't speak much of him.

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Old
12-22-2012, 02:04 PM
  #35
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Obligated to leave Komi in?? Is the same organization that felt "obligated" to dump over paid Jeff Finger in the AHL?

Lets stop with the excuses, Franson didn't cut it on the Leafs blue line,, that doesn't speak much of him.
No, that's not an excuse. He's right.

Komi was brutal yet somehow still played over Franson.

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Old
12-22-2012, 02:07 PM
  #36
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Franson can barely keep himself in the NHL while Caron is playing on the third line of a championship team.

Edit: Bruins also have great depth for 6th/7th man Defense not worth it especially without the third rounder.

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Old
12-22-2012, 03:03 PM
  #37
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Not a fan of Franson. I'd deal Caron for a dman but just not this one.

That said, those who are pencilling Hamilton in as a 6th dman right now might be disappointed. While super talented and with a very bright future, I just don't think the future is here yet. Also, Krug is struggling in Providence, Adam McQuaid had shoulder surgery and Aaron Johnson sucks.

The B's could totally use a dman, and I'm of the opinion that Caron will never be anything special.

I'm just not at all a fan of Franson. I'd do Caron and something else for Liles though.

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Old
12-22-2012, 05:33 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
Not a fan of Franson. I'd deal Caron for a dman but just not this one.

That said, those who are pencilling Hamilton in as a 6th dman right now might be disappointed. While super talented and with a very bright future, I just don't think the future is here yet. Also, Krug is struggling in Providence, Adam McQuaid had shoulder surgery and Aaron Johnson sucks.

The B's could totally use a dman, and I'm of the opinion that Caron will never be anything special.

I'm just not at all a fan of Franson. I'd do Caron and something else for Liles though.
Would you do something around Kelly and Liles? Or maybe Peverly?

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Old
12-22-2012, 06:38 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
Would you do something around Kelly and Liles? Or maybe Peverly?
Would I? Yeah I'd probably do Kelly for Liles because I think Kelly is going to come back to earth a bit. But the B's wouldn't trade either one of them for Liles. They'd be looking at more of a prospect or pick situation, which probably wouldn't do the Leafs any good at the moment.

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Old
12-23-2012, 02:37 AM
  #40
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I was thinking of a new trade that involved the leafs and bruins
it would be:

patrice bergeron
dougie hamilton

for:
jake Gardiner
tyler Bozak
2014 1st
carter ashton
stuart Percy

I think that Boston would do this trade because:
-they have two good centres in krechi and seguin and bozak makes a great third line centre
-they had great success with toronto`s first round picks in the past in the past
-they are getting rid of cap
-their prospect pool is not very stronge
-carter Ashton fits Bostons type of player
-Gardiner can be seen as higher value as Hamilton due to the fact that he has potiential but has also proven it at the NHL level

Toronto would do this because
-Bergeron would be a true number 1 centre
-Rielly can take over Garderner`s spot on the roster
-Rielly and Hamilton will have some chemistry due to the fact that they are paired up at the world juniors
-Bozak is considered useless to them if they get bergeron because there is no space for him

commentsÉ

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Old
12-23-2012, 08:49 AM
  #41
don
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With the news about McQuaid, I'd do this deal. Franzen would replace him until his return then be the 7th D-man. If he doesn't seem to be working out, then let him walk, ship him to the AHL, or trade his rights.

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Old
12-23-2012, 09:18 AM
  #42
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Burke thinks about this for a minute and says make it a 2nd and you have a deal

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Old
12-23-2012, 09:43 AM
  #43
Confound
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leafz View Post
I was thinking of a new trade that involved the leafs and bruins
it would be:

patrice bergeron
dougie hamilton

for:
jake Gardiner
tyler Bozak
2014 1st
carter ashton
stuart Percy

I think that Boston would do this trade because:
-they have two good centres in krechi and seguin and bozak makes a great third line centre
-they had great success with toronto`s first round picks in the past in the past
-they are getting rid of cap
-their prospect pool is not very stronge
-carter Ashton fits Bostons type of player
-Gardiner can be seen as higher value as Hamilton due to the fact that he has potiential but has also proven it at the NHL level

Toronto would do this because
-Bergeron would be a true number 1 centre
-Rielly can take over Garderner`s spot on the roster
-Rielly and Hamilton will have some chemistry due to the fact that they are paired up at the world juniors
-Bozak is considered useless to them if they get bergeron because there is no space for him

commentsÉ
Classic quantity for quality post, gotta love em.

The Bruins are not trading Bergeron (selke winning center who has played his whole career with Boston, he loves Boston and Boston loves him back).

And we are not trading Hamilton away, period. He is our only D prospect that has first pairing potential and he is one of the best D prospects there is.

Point is, we aren't trading Bergeron and Hamilton away for a bunch of crap we don't need, Boston is fine with the cap. Chiarelli will make a move or two if he has to by trading away a guy like Kelly or Ference before trading away our young star center in Bergeron. Bergeron is the most consistent forward we have and is thought to be the captain here once Chara retires. HE'S NOT GOING ANYWHERE AND HAMILTON ISN'T EITHER.

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Old
12-23-2012, 09:50 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leafz View Post
I was thinking of a new trade that involved the leafs and bruins
it would be:

patrice bergeron
dougie hamilton

for:
jake Gardiner
tyler Bozak
2014 1st
carter ashton
stuart Percy

I think that Boston would do this trade because:
-they have two good centres in krechi and seguin and bozak makes a great third line centre
-they had great success with toronto`s first round picks in the past in the past
-they are getting rid of cap
-their prospect pool is not very stronge
-carter Ashton fits Bostons type of player
-Gardiner can be seen as higher value as Hamilton due to the fact that he has potiential but has also proven it at the NHL level

Toronto would do this because
-Bergeron would be a true number 1 centre
-Rielly can take over Garderner`s spot on the roster
-Rielly and Hamilton will have some chemistry due to the fact that they are paired up at the world juniors
-Bozak is considered useless to them if they get bergeron because there is no space for him

commentsÉ
I knew the leafs weren't a very good team, but that you now have staff playing...my god...

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Old
12-23-2012, 10:17 AM
  #45
Dellstrom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leafz View Post
I was thinking of a new trade that involved the leafs and bruins
it would be:

patrice bergeron
dougie hamilton

for:
jake Gardiner
tyler Bozak
2014 1st
carter ashton
stuart Percy

I think that Boston would do this trade because:
-they have two good centres in krechi and seguin and bozak makes a great third line centre
-they had great success with toronto`s first round picks in the past in the past
-they are getting rid of cap
-their prospect pool is not very stronge
-carter Ashton fits Bostons type of player
-Gardiner can be seen as higher value as Hamilton due to the fact that he has potiential but has also proven it at the NHL level

Toronto would do this because
-Bergeron would be a true number 1 centre
-Rielly can take over Garderner`s spot on the roster
-Rielly and Hamilton will have some chemistry due to the fact that they are paired up at the world juniors
-Bozak is considered useless to them if they get bergeron because there is no space for him

commentsÉ
No way... The two players on the team we're most reluctant to trade.

-We have A good center in Krejci, Seguin is unproven there. He's worked out fine on Bergeron, our best forward's wing. No need to trade our best forward and future captain for the sake of trading him. Kelly would still be our 3rd line center.
-I'll give you that one.
-Cap that goes towards what?
-It's good enough. It's not as if this makes it better...
-So do 3/4ths of our prospects.
-Not from a Boston perspective, not even close.

Bergeron is our best forward and future captain. He's never being traded, because no one is going to offer the amount it would take to get him. Hamilton is one of the most highly regarded players in our franchise, and he hasn't even played an NHL game yet. He's that important to us. Gardiner and the first are the only good pieces for us here. They're not getting you either. We give you an elite center and a potentially elite defenseman, which then gives you two of those. Rielly-Hamilton would be a ***** to see 6 times a year. Even if the value was fair, it's far too big for a division rival trade, let alone a trade period...


Last edited by Dellstrom: 12-23-2012 at 10:29 AM.
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Old
12-23-2012, 10:25 AM
  #46
IrishPaulie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leafz View Post
I was thinking of a new trade that involved the leafs and bruins
it would be:

patrice bergeron
dougie hamilton

for:
jake Gardiner
tyler Bozak
2014 1st
carter ashton
stuart Percy

I think that Boston would do this trade because:
-they have two good centres in krechi and seguin and bozak makes a great third line centre - They also have Kelly and Peverley both of whom are better than Bozak.
-they had great success with toronto`s first round picks in the past in the past - How is this even a valid selling point? They got the player they wanted in Hamilton. No need to role the dice again.
-they are getting rid of cap - Cap dumps typically aren't in the form of a 1a/b centers or top prospects.
-their prospect pool is not very stronge - Yet neither of the prospects you offered would displace Spooner, Subban or Khokalachev. How does this improve Boston's prospect pool?
-carter Ashton fits Bostons type of player - IF he cracks an NHL roster. He hasn't looked that good this year and he looked lost in his stint with Toronto last year. Boston already has a prospect like him in Caron who is more NHL proven
-Gardiner can be seen as higher value as Hamilton due to the fact that he has potiential but has also proven it at the NHL level - Hamilton has higher potential. Gardiner is more proven but you don't trade a 2-way defensive stud prospect for a young puck mover.

Toronto would do this because
-Bergeron would be a true number 1 centre
-Rielly can take over Garderner`s spot on the roster
-Rielly and Hamilton will have some chemistry due to the fact that they are paired up at the world juniors
-Bozak is considered useless to them if they get bergeron because there is no space for him

commentsÉ
Absolutely awful trade proposal.

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Old
12-23-2012, 01:14 PM
  #47
WeridAl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leafz View Post
I was thinking of a new trade that involved the leafs and bruins
it would be:

patrice bergeron
dougie hamilton

for:
jake Gardiner
tyler Bozak
2014 1st
carter ashton
stuart Percy

I think that Boston would do this trade because:
-they have two good centres in krechi and seguin and bozak makes a great third line centre
-they had great success with toronto`s first round picks in the past in the past
-they are getting rid of cap
-their prospect pool is not very stronge
-carter Ashton fits Bostons type of player
-Gardiner can be seen as higher value as Hamilton due to the fact that he has potiential but has also proven it at the NHL level

Toronto would do this because
-Bergeron would be a true number 1 centre
-Rielly can take over Garderner`s spot on the roster
-Rielly and Hamilton will have some chemistry due to the fact that they are paired up at the world juniors
-Bozak is considered useless to them if they get bergeron because there is no space for him

commentsÉ
Patrice Bergeron has a NMC, and not much of a chance of him wanting to go to TO. I don't believe what is being proposed would even get you Hamilton.

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Old
12-23-2012, 01:55 PM
  #48
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If this was offered I'd think the leafs take it immediately

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Old
12-23-2012, 02:01 PM
  #49
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Just got off the phone with Burke he said he throw in Frattin and a second aswell

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Old
12-23-2012, 02:01 PM
  #50
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Better in theory than in practice, IMO

1 - The Bruins don't need to add.
2 - Where would Franson play with the Bruins, exactly?

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