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Old
12-22-2012, 11:18 AM
  #101
MAK19
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Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
I'm pretty sure when we acquired Bishop, we didn't know this lockout was going to drag on to at least January.

Saying you hate the Bishop trade because he's stealing AHL games from Lehner is only an argument you can make in pure hindsight. Bishop wasn't supposed to see a single AHL game this year.

I agree, Lehner SHOULD be playing.
... so should Spezza. And Karlsson, And Alfredsson. And Turris. And the rest of the NHL roster.

We're making the best of a bad situation right now. To call the trade bad because we're in the situation we're currently in presumes that GM's should make trades with the worst-case-scenario in mind. For Murray NOT to make that trade last year "because a potential lockout would create a logjam on our farm team" is both mind-numbingly pessimistic, as well as a textbook lesson in poor management.
If it was up to me

Lockout: Lehner is full time starter in AHL
No Lockout: Lehner is splitting games in the NHL with Andy

Either way, there is obviously no need for Bishop.


Lehner is ready. You can't keep him in the AHL til he's 26, he needs to make the jump at some point.

Unfortunately a lot of you don't want him starting in the NHL because he's unproven, and don't want him to backup because he needs to play.

Well, this is ALWAYS going to be the case. At some point he needs to backup or be thrown in there.

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Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
Also, as an aside, separate from my thoughts above, about the 2nd round pick we gave up for Bish:
I think the 2012 draft is going to go down as one of the worst drafts of the last 15 years. 1999 can't be topped as worst-ever, but I think the 2012 will be the worst draft of the new millennium once we've had 10 years to reflect on it. It was, IMO, a combination of very uncertain and underwhelming elite players at the top (after Yakupov) and terrible depth after the 1st round.

If more than 5 players drafted in the 2nd round this past year become productive NHLers, I'll be legit surprised. I mean, we used our 3rd rounder on Maidens, a legit "hail mary" pick mostly because I think the org realized that the only skill left in the draft at that point had massive red flags attached. Barring a massive stroke of unanticipated good luck, I have almost no confidence in anyone we picked this year ever playing more than 50 games with the Sens, after Ceci of course.
Moo point, it was a 2013 2nd round pick.

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Old
12-22-2012, 11:32 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post

Conclusion : do we really care that much about a 2nd round pick? Ya let's trade Da Costa, Petersson, Ceci, etc for 2nds! It would be awesome
not sure about that. silfverberg, prince, lehner?
yeah i DO really care about a 2nd round pick. (not agreeing or disagreeing with bishop value)

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Old
12-22-2012, 11:35 AM
  #103
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Now if anyone doubts that he is just trolling...

I only have a few minutes but quickly (could find more with more time) :

- Anderson was injured, we were right in the middle of a playoff race and the team (players, coachs, management) clearly had no confidence in Auld. It could have been disastrous for Lehner confidence to put him in so much pressure as a 19 y/o. Imagine if he ruined the season?
Maybe you are mentally soft like that, but Lehner isn't. Andy was hurt (and was going to be back for the playoffs), and Lehner was playing great in the NHL.

Lehner could have and would have performed every bit as good as Bishop did, if not better. I have no idea why you think this wouldn't be the case.

Even in your unlikely scenario where Lehner ruins the Sens' season, a 10 game stretch doesn't ruin a kid's entire career, sorry. You're wrong.

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- Create an internal competition. We only had 1 goalie prospect... Lehner must have felt entitled to his future. It was a wake-up call for him... like "wow a 6'7 guy that has dominated the AHL is now competing with me"
I admitted this was the only good reason. But he still has Andy to compete with.

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Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
- Adress a position of weakness (goaltending was a weakness and is now a strenght... Need a drawing? Gerber/Auld/Elliott --> Anderson/Lehner/Bishop)
What was needed was another good goalie prospect, not a 3rd NHL goalie.

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Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
- Who the heck do you expect to draft with that 2nd rounder? 2n coming of Mario Lemieux? A guy better than Bishop? No, chances remain very low that we'd develop a better player in 4-5 years.

- We already have ton of prospects, why not use 1 freaking draft pick to add a goalie that is FULLY developped and who has serious potential? Are we seriously going to hurt because we have 1 less 18 y/o prospect but a 25 y/o player instead? (note the difference between prospect and player... 1 is a sure thing, the other is not)

- Bishop is at least still worth a 2nd, maybe we'll get even more if he can raise his stock (hard to do with non-stop lockouts though). He has nothing else to prove in the AHL, he needs some NHL games.

Conclusion : do we really care that much about a 2nd round pick? Ya let's trade Da Costa, Petersson, Ceci, etc for 2nds! It would be awesome

Seriously, it must be cereals, today's youth is incapable of reasoning

We're not talking about characters on a XboX video game but human beings... There's a lot of psychology in real life, sports included. Not sure what you have chosen to study but please don't choose management, you clearly have no skills in that. Your thought process is way too simple.
My thought process is to not waste assets on redundant pieces.

Let's say there was no lockout... imo (and likely Lehner's as well), Lehner is the best goalie in the Sens organization. Do you think he would have been cool sitting in Bingo while 2 inferior goalies were playing in the NHL?


According to your logic, the Sens should trade a 3rd rounder for Francis Bouillon because the pick is unlikely to as good as Bouillon, the Sens have many prospects, and Bouillon is fully developed. OK then. That's a sure way of being a crappy organization in the long run.

Now you'll come back and say there's no need for Bouillon... but at the start of the year, a spot would have been handed to Wiercioch or Borowiecki (and still will be), though both are less deserving than Lehner.

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Old
12-22-2012, 11:40 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Icelevel View Post
not sure about that. silfverberg, prince, lehner?
yeah i DO really care about a 2nd round pick. (not agreeing or disagreeing with bishop value)
This. Draft picks aren't just something you throw away because they're unlikely to become something.

You miss 100% of the shots you don't take -Wayne Gretzky

Also, have you guys being paying ANY attention to the Sens' drafting the past few years?


I mean.. please. Xspirit. oh Please.

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12-22-2012, 12:04 PM
  #105
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Highlights??

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Old
12-22-2012, 12:17 PM
  #106
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Highlights??
what they said...

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Old
12-22-2012, 01:09 PM
  #107
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Highlights??

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Old
12-22-2012, 01:16 PM
  #108
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"you miss 100% of the shots you don't take -wayne gretzky" - Michael Scott
ftfy

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Old
12-22-2012, 02:15 PM
  #109
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DAT SILVER SHOT WOW.

I seen it many time but it still amazes me.

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12-22-2012, 02:18 PM
  #110
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Quite the shot by Silf

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Old
12-22-2012, 02:22 PM
  #111
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Bishop is so bad.

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Old
12-22-2012, 02:29 PM
  #112
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A lot of softies let in by Bishop.

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Old
12-22-2012, 02:33 PM
  #113
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A lot of softies let in by Bishop.
and not just in this 1 game. Its every game. He doesn't even look like an NHL back up anymore. Waste of a 2nd.

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12-22-2012, 02:41 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
and not just in this 1 game. Its every game. He doesn't even look like an NHL back up anymore. Waste of a 2nd.
high five

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Old
12-22-2012, 03:48 PM
  #115
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and not just in this 1 game. Its every game. He doesn't even look like an NHL back up anymore. Waste of a 2nd.
Well I wouldn't go as far as calling him a waste of a 2nd. He's got potential and is probably better than the average 2nd rounder will ever be. But was expecting more from him.

Still has a pretty good save % although almost giving up 3GA per game.

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12-22-2012, 03:53 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by mat_sens View Post
Well I wouldn't go as far as calling him a waste of a 2nd. He's got potential and is probably better than the average 2nd rounder will ever be. But was expecting more from him.

Still has a pretty good save % although almost giving up 3GA per game.
I'd rather have the chance at another Lehner or Silfverberg than a back up goalie.

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12-22-2012, 04:43 PM
  #117
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12-22-2012, 04:47 PM
  #118
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Redhead #1 can do so much better

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Old
12-22-2012, 04:53 PM
  #119
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Is your nick from this video:


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Old
12-22-2012, 05:08 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by mat_sens View Post
Well I wouldn't go as far as calling him a waste of a 2nd. He's got potential and is probably better than the average 2nd rounder will ever be. But was expecting more from him.

Still has a pretty good save % although almost giving up 3GA per game.
Bishop's had to face 40+ shots in 5/9 games he's played, which would help account for the high GAA. He's still got the exact same SV% (.928) that he had in Peoria last year when we traded for him. He's played fine (6-3-0), easily worth the 2nd rounder. Considering all the goaltending troubles we've had, I'm surprised how many are against having Bishop in our system.

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12-22-2012, 05:36 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by SensForLife11 View Post
Bishop's had to face 40+ shots in 5/9 games he's played, which would help account for the high GAA. He's still got the exact same SV% (.928) that he had in Peoria last year when we traded for him. He's played fine (6-3-0), easily worth the 2nd rounder. Considering all the goaltending troubles we've had, I'm surprised how many are against having Bishop in our system.
Not many are against it, just 2 confused people and that's it.

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12-22-2012, 06:02 PM
  #122
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Hey is their gonna be a stream tonight

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12-22-2012, 06:20 PM
  #123
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Hey is their gonna be a stream tonight
Yes http://www.ustream.tv/channel/senshockey

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Old
12-22-2012, 06:39 PM
  #124
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End of 1 Bingo 2 Rochester 0

1. BNG Prince, (5) (Schneider, Benoit), 14:31
1. BNG Benoit, (9) (Silfverberg, Wiercioch), 16:16 (PP)

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Old
12-22-2012, 06:41 PM
  #125
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Moo point, it was a 2013 2nd round pick.
Yeah, I addressed that point already.

As for the rest of it: revisionist history is easy. It's nice when Lehner is playing well (this season) to say he's ready. It's much tougher to make that claim when he's struggling, as he was last year. Last year it was pretty evident we needed Lehner to play an extra year in the AHL.

In fact, if anything, Lehner's play this year PROVES that the Bishop acquisition was a good thing: Lehner is having a GOOD year in the AHL. If the NHL was playing, Bishop would be backing up Andy, and Lehner would still be having this great year in the AHL, setting up for him to possibly be called up permanently in 2013-14.

I still don't see the issue here. The only reason it's a problem at the moment is because we're in the middle of a lockout, and you can't make your plans based on that IMO. You need to plan as though you're playing a season at some point.

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