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Old
12-21-2012, 12:52 PM
  #51
MovesLikeJagr68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manked View Post


If the Sens wanted Maata that badly, they would have picked him instead of Ceci.
Not to take away from Ceci's skill, but I'm sure that the facts that he was born and raised in Ottawa, went to Uni in Ottawa, and plays for the Ottawa 67's were huge factors in Murray's decision to pick him at that point.

Also, if the Pens wanted Silfverberg that badly, they would have picked him instead of Despres.

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Old
12-21-2012, 12:59 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manked View Post


If the Sens wanted Maata that badly, they would have picked him instead of Ceci.
Right, I mean, if the Sens had ANY INTEREST, WHATSOEVER, in Couturier, Hamilton or Baertschi... they'd just have picked them instead of Zbad.

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Old
12-21-2012, 01:39 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MovesLikeJagr68 View Post
Not to take away from Ceci's skill, but I'm sure that the facts that he was born and raised in Ottawa, went to Uni in Ottawa, and plays for the Ottawa 67's were huge factors in Murray's decision to pick him at that point.

Also, if the Pens wanted Silfverberg that badly, they would have picked him instead of Despres.
Pointless argument. You don't see people saying that about why Anaheim picked Etem. Do you really think the Murrays are stupid enough to pass up a player who is a better prospect than Ceci just because Ceci is an Ottawa boy? Sure, if there are 2 players who are very similar in upside and play the same position, the local one probably gets picked, but picking a kid based on where he is from or where he played junior rather than his upside is an express ticket to get a GM fired. The Murrays are noted for their drafting prowess, its just a nice coincidence that our BPA was from Ottawa.

And you'll have a very hard time finding an Ottawa Senators fan who isn't thrilled about picking Ceci where we picked him, and it has nothing to do with his birthplace or the uniform he wore in junior.

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Old
12-21-2012, 01:43 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MovesLikeJagr68 View Post
Not to take away from Ceci's skill, but I'm sure that the facts that he was born and raised in Ottawa, went to Uni in Ottawa, and plays for the Ottawa 67's were huge factors in Murray's decision to pick him at that point.

Also, if the Pens wanted Silfverberg that badly, they would have picked him instead of Despres.
Tyler Cuma?

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Old
12-21-2012, 03:04 PM
  #55
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Do you really think the Murrays are stupid enough to pass up a player who is a better prospect than Ceci just because Ceci is an Ottawa boy?
Yes

And like I said, I'm not trying to say he's a lesser player by saying this. If I were a Murray I would have done the exact same thing. Having a local kid playing for his cities NHL team is a huge benefit to not just on-ice skill, but creating a potential fan favourite and can increase interest in Ottawa area youth hockey.

Again, not trying to say that he's a bad player, I'm just saying that it may have been that final push to picking him at that point over any of the other guys who were projected to go in that part of the round.

Quote:
And you'll have a very hard time finding an Ottawa Senators fan who isn't thrilled about picking Ceci where we picked him, and it has nothing to do with his birthplace or the uniform he wore in junior.
I don't doubt that Sens fans are thrilled about having him, and I am sure that many of them have been following him pre-draft. I would be thrilled too if I lived in my favourite teams city and they just drafted a local kid.

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12-21-2012, 05:20 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MovesLikeJagr68 View Post
Yes

And like I said, I'm not trying to say he's a lesser player by saying this. If I were a Murray I would have done the exact same thing. Having a local kid playing for his cities NHL team is a huge benefit to not just on-ice skill, but creating a potential fan favourite and can increase interest in Ottawa area youth hockey.

Again, not trying to say that he's a bad player, I'm just saying that it may have been that final push to picking him at that point over any of the other guys who were projected to go in that part of the round.

I don't doubt that Sens fans are thrilled about having him, and I am sure that many of them have been following him pre-draft. I would be thrilled too if I lived in my favourite teams city and they just drafted a local kid.
It is great having a local kid in our organization drafted that high, both for the organization, Ceci himself, the fans, everyone, I completely agree with you there.

That said, who was available where the Sens picked that was clearly a better pick with better upside than Ceci? Time will tell how good or bad of a pick it was as compared to the guys that were drafted in the spots following him, but at this point, you can't say there was someone else still on the board that was clearly a better pick than Ceci. The Murrays, as with any GM worth their salt, draft the best player available at that spot according to their scouting list. To suggest that they would bypass someone that is clearly a better pick just because an Ottawa boy was on the board is clearly wrong. If they did do that, they would find themselves on the unemployment line.

As for fan favourites, even after Alfie hangs 'em up, there are no shortage of fan favourites remaining - guys like Karlsson, Neil, Spezza (more of a love/hate with Sens fans), etc, none of whom were born in Ottawa, played junior here, or went to school here.

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Old
12-21-2012, 06:32 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MovesLikeJagr68 View Post
Yes

And like I said, I'm not trying to say he's a lesser player by saying this. If I were a Murray I would have done the exact same thing. Having a local kid playing for his cities NHL team is a huge benefit to not just on-ice skill, but creating a potential fan favourite and can increase interest in Ottawa area youth hockey.

Again, not trying to say that he's a bad player, I'm just saying that it may have been that final push to picking him at that point over any of the other guys who were projected to go in that part of the round.



I don't doubt that Sens fans are thrilled about having him, and I am sure that many of them have been following him pre-draft. I would be thrilled too if I lived in my favourite teams city and they just drafted a local kid.
Link to North America's final rankings for players: Note Ceci Higher than the 5 NA Defenseman taken over him. This had to do with BPA and the icing on the cake was that he was from Ottawa.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=79331

How about?

OTT
Stone

PIT
Maata

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Old
12-21-2012, 06:44 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peckersnoot View Post
Link to North America's final rankings for players: Note Ceci Higher than the 5 NA Defenseman taken over him. This had to do with BPA and the icing on the cake was that he was from Ottawa.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=79331

How about?

OTT
Stone

PIT
Maata
You don't like Stone that much?

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Old
12-21-2012, 07:06 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Will Hunting View Post
Iīm not the one saying Maatta is worth your best prospects (Zib, JS). But right now, I value him at least slightly higher than Ceci. Maatta has a more complete game and is almost one year younger than Ceci. Saying that Ceci has higher value because he was drafted higher is pointless. We drafted Pouliot higher than Forsberg/Grigorenko/Trouba, thatīs the way it goes sometimes... I wouldnīt trade Maatta for your forwards prospects (other than Zib and JS) just like you wouldnīt trade Zibanejad and JS for Olli.
How is that pointless? The Sens, clearly, tangibly, value Ceci higher than Maatta.

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Old
12-22-2012, 03:18 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by The OttoMan Lion View Post
How is that pointless? The Sens, clearly, tangibly, value Ceci higher than Maatta.
I value Maatta very high. I stil canīt understand how in the hell could he fall to our 23rd spot but I am so glad he did. Nothing against Ceci, but I just value Maatta slightly higher than him, maybe even higher than Pouliot (who was our 8th overall pick). Olli is as young as it gets for this draft and he does everything so well (except of maybe skating).

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Old
12-22-2012, 07:55 AM
  #61
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Ottawa's prospects are God's gift to the Earth, and the Pens should offer up the world for them. Is that correct?

If the Pens make a trade with the Sens, the value should be equal - on both sides. But given how high Ottawa is on their prospects and how badly Pittsburgh needs D, I don't see a deal happening. Both organizations might be valuing them a bit more than what they are actually worth.

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12-22-2012, 11:11 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Will Hunting View Post
I value Maatta very high. I stil canīt understand how in the hell could he fall to our 23rd spot but I am so glad he did. Nothing against Ceci, but I just value Maatta slightly higher than him, maybe even higher than Pouliot (who was our 8th overall pick). Olli is as young as it gets for this draft and he does everything so well (except of maybe skating).
Maybe the Pens value Maatta more than Ceci, which I find 100% reasonable, but its safe to say the Sens do not. If the Sens wanted Maata so much that they would deal Silf, Zibanejad, or Ceci for him, they would have selected him 15th. That's all that's being said. Since that didn't happen, I doubt they would acquire Maatta unless it was a deal around Noesen.

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Old
12-22-2012, 11:21 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peckersnoot View Post
Link to North America's final rankings for players: Note Ceci Higher than the 5 NA Defenseman taken over him. This had to do with BPA and the icing on the cake was that he was from Ottawa.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=79331

How about?

OTT
Stone

PIT
Maata
Maatta is not worth a blue chip prospect. Just awful.

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Old
12-22-2012, 01:13 PM
  #64
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As a Sens fan, I wouldn't give up either Stone or Silfverberg unless it was a ridiculous over-payment. I'm a lot more flexible with Zibby.

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Old
12-22-2012, 02:40 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Superunknown94 View Post
Ottawa's prospects are God's gift to the Earth, and the Pens should offer up the world for them. Is that correct?

If the Pens make a trade with the Sens, the value should be equal - on both sides. But given how high Ottawa is on their prospects and how badly Pittsburgh needs D, I don't see a deal happening. Both organizations might be valuing them a bit more than what they are actually worth.
You act like we are asking for Crosby when offering Stephane Da Costa. Get real or stop exaggerating.
My deals so far have been Puemepl/Petersson for Despres (That trade is in Ottawa's favour but not that much), Zibanejad for Despres/2012 2nd (This trade is in Pittsburgh's favour), and then Stone for Maatta which is hard to gauge but I think the Value is there but both sides are opposed to it.

The Fact of the matter is you may Need D BUT NOT ALL OF IT WILL COME FROM THE PROSPECT LINE. You will still be signing free agents like any other team and not all of your D prospects may pan out although they look like they would now. You are right in saying that both sides are over valuing their prospects.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
Maatta is not worth a blue chip prospect. Just awful.
Good thing Stone is not a Blue Chip Prospect. People need to realize terms before they throw them out.

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Old
12-22-2012, 04:08 PM
  #66
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Good thing Stone is not a Blue Chip Prospect. People need to realize terms before they throw them out.
A lot of people would disagree.

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Old
12-22-2012, 11:29 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Peckersnoot View Post
Good thing Stone is not a Blue Chip Prospect. People need to realize terms before they throw them out.
Yea, sometimes I think that term is thrown around way too loosely on these boards.

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Old
12-22-2012, 11:42 PM
  #68
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Mark Stone is a "blue chip" prospect? GTFO.

Ottawa fans overrate him (a lot) while other fans underrate him, but seriously, no.

I wouldn't trade any of the Penguins D-prospects for him. Honestly, if the Pens and Sens are talking Silfverberg better be in discussion, and since no Sens fan wants to discuss that.....

/thread.

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Old
12-23-2012, 12:04 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Dangles78 View Post
Mark Stone is a "blue chip" prospect? GTFO.

Ottawa fans overrate him (a lot) while other fans underrate him, but seriously, no.

I wouldn't trade any of the Penguins D-prospects for him. Honestly, if the Pens and Sens are talking Silfverberg better be in discussion, and since no Sens fan wants to discuss that.....

/thread.
Sounds fine by me.

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Old
12-23-2012, 12:43 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
A lot of people would disagree.
I have yet to see anyone agree with you about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangles78 View Post
I wouldn't trade any of the Penguins D-prospects for him. Honestly, if the Pens and Sens are talking Silfverberg better be in discussion, and since no Sens fan wants to discuss that.....

/thread.
Ok My Final Offer.

OTT
Jakob Silfverberg

PIT
Simon Despres

I want to see reactions and then we can /thread.

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Old
12-23-2012, 01:21 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Peckersnoot View Post
I have yet to see anyone agree with you about it.



Ok My Final Offer.

OTT
Jakob Silfverberg

PIT
Simon Despres

I want to see reactions and then we can /thread.
Hell no.

We need Silf WAY more than we need a young defenceman ATM. I don't even want to touch on the value here, I just don't think we can move Silfverberg right now without setting the franchise back.

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Old
12-23-2012, 01:40 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
Hell no.

We need Silf WAY more than we need a young defenceman ATM. I don't even want to touch on the value here, I just don't think we can move Silfverberg right now without setting the franchise back.
I agree with him in the aspect that Ottawa shouldn't move Silf (or need to make this trade), but I'm not sure where he is going with this in aspects of trade value. Despres for Silf is fair. The only thing that would stop this is respective organizational needs.

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Old
12-23-2012, 01:53 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Dangles78 View Post
I agree with him in the aspect that Ottawa shouldn't move Silf (or need to make this trade), but I'm not sure where he is going with this in aspects of trade value. Despres for Silf is fair. The only thing that would stop this is respective organizational needs.
I was merely stating that value in this case is irrelevant. Organizational needs, just like you pointed out. I wanted to be sure that when I said I wanted nothing to do with the proposed deal, I wasn't inferring that "Silf >>> Despres, AINEC, LOLZ, CIBC"

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Old
12-23-2012, 02:19 AM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
I was merely stating that value in this case is irrelevant. Organizational needs, just like you pointed out. I wanted to be sure that when I said I wanted nothing to do with the proposed deal, I wasn't inferring that "Silf >>> Despres, AINEC, LOLZ, CIBC"
Even tho its true.

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Old
12-23-2012, 03:21 AM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peckersnoot View Post
Link to North America's final rankings for players: Note Ceci Higher than the 5 NA Defenseman taken over him. This had to do with BPA and the icing on the cake was that he was from Ottawa.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=79331

How about?

OTT
Stone

PIT
Maata
I know sens are high on stone but this is quite dumb for the pens to accept.

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