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Hannu Jortikka's observations during his year in Siberia

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Old
12-23-2012, 09:36 AM
  #26
Faterson
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I would expect a poster nicknamed "Siberian" to know where Siberia is. It really seems a controversial issue. According to the Wikipedia article, old Russians would possibly consider Khabarovsk part of "Siberia", but starting from the Soviet times, modern Russians would call it "Far East", not "Siberia".

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12-23-2012, 09:39 AM
  #27
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Ok, I found some reference where some consider Far East being nor part of Siberia. Fine, but it is still insanely stupid to blame Jortikka because it's not something perfectly defined.

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12-23-2012, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Faterson View Post
According to the three-coloured map on Wikipedia's page for Siberia, Khabarovsk can also be considered "Siberia". Just saying!
Well it can't. Historically Slovakia can be considered part of Czechoslovakia or Finland part of Russia or Sweden. Just saying!

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12-23-2012, 09:45 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Siberian View Post
Ok, I found some reference where some consider Far East being nor part of Siberia. Fine, but it is still insanely stupid to blame Jortikka because it's not something perfectly defined.
I don't even know if it was Jortikka or the journalists who published this. That wasn't my point. The point is I don't like when the stereotypes take over. "Siberia" is the cliche a lot of foreigners associate with Russia although they don't really know what it is. But overall the whole thing by Jortikka is full of those stereotypical views. I for my part find it hilarious that of all people a finn talks about drinking problems in Russia.

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12-23-2012, 09:46 AM
  #30
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Everywhere I looked Far East is Siberia. So you need to apologize to Jortikka and move on.

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12-23-2012, 09:48 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Atas2000 View Post
Historically Slovakia can be considered part of Czechoslovakia
Only historically. But under that map of Siberia in Wikipedia, it says

Quote:
Historical Siberia (and present Siberia in some usages)
I know Wikipedia is anything but error-free and professional, but there must be a reason for even putting it that way. The issue does seem controversial and not clear-cut, unlike your examples.

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12-23-2012, 09:51 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Siberian View Post
Just out of laughs. Can you tell me where lies this Siberian border? You with your extensive knowledge of geography should be able to tell us with ease.
As I wrote it's the drainage divide between siberian and far east rivers. It's a natural geological border.

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12-23-2012, 09:58 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Faterson View Post
Only historically. But under that map of Siberia in Wikipedia, it says

I know Wikipedia is anything but error-free and professional, but there must be a reason for even putting it that way. The issue does seem controversial and not clear-cut, unlike your examples.
Historically the very word "Sibir" for the region derives from turk people(being also the name of that people) living on siberian plains and not in the far east. Some ppl would probably be OK with calling everything beyond Moscow the Great Tartaria as on some old maps but it wouldn't make any sense obviously. So I would consider calling the russian far east part of Siberia at least outdated.

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12-23-2012, 10:00 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Siberian View Post
Everywhere I looked Far East is Siberia. So you need to apologize to Jortikka and move on.
Then try to call somebody from Khabarovsk a siberian. You'll get a high brow.

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12-23-2012, 10:05 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faterson
under that map of Siberia in Wikipedia, it says
By the way, under the same map in RuWiki, the large part is named "Asian part of Russia".

Quote:
I know Wikipedia is anything but error-free and professional, but there must be a reason for even putting it that way. The issue does seem controversial and not clear-cut.
I've never seen a Russian of any age saying that Far East is a part of Siberia. I suppose this controversy is based on foreigners just naming anything to the East from Ural mountains Siberia. It's like saying that Chukchi Sea and Eastern Siberian Sea don't exist as they are all parts of Arctic Ocean: it may look that way, but there's geographical basis for dividing them, just like for allocating Far East differently from Siberia.

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12-23-2012, 10:05 AM
  #36
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Then try to call somebody from Khabarovsk a siberian. You'll get a high brow.
Dude, stop embarrassing yourself, just move on.

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12-23-2012, 10:10 AM
  #37
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I wish someone would produce a geographical overview of KHL teams. I'm not sure which KHL teams can be termed "Siberian". And I bet most non-Russian hockey fans have no idea that Ufa is a Bashkerian hockey team, and that Ak Bars and Neftekhimik are Tartarian teams. Neither would they be able to point to Tatarstan or Bashkortostan on a map of Russia. (I'm ashamed to admit, neither would I!)

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12-23-2012, 10:10 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siberian View Post
Dude, stop embarrassing yourself, just move on.
Now that's what I call a counter-evidence.

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Originally Posted by Faterson View Post
I'm not sure which KHL teams can be termed "Siberian".
Yugra, Avangard, Metallurg NK and Sibir.

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12-23-2012, 10:13 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Acallabeth View Post
Now that's what I call a counter-evidence.
Far East is a recent term, very likely Soviet term. Far East is part of Siberia, no question about it. It was like this for centuries, referred in Russia and Western books. It is like if you would be proving that Yekaterinburg should only be called Sverdlovsk. Let's move on, it is embarassing to argue about this when clearly Jortikka had a right terminology.

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12-23-2012, 10:21 AM
  #40
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Here is the map from 16th century so we all can move on http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...iberia_XVI.jpg

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12-23-2012, 10:23 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siberian View Post
Far East is a recent term, very likely Soviet term. Far East is part of Siberia, no question about it. It was like this for centuries, referred in Russia and Western books.
Maybe we'll call Antarctica "Terra Incognita" then?
Ever heard about Physiographic division of the planet that bases division of the Earth on geomorphogenesis? Traditions are nice, but sometimes they are incorrect.

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Originally Posted by Siberian View Post
Here is the map from 16th century so we all can move on http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...iberia_XVI.jpg
Now that's laughable. How are things in Holy Roman Empire?

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12-23-2012, 10:31 AM
  #42
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May be historically, long ago Far East was considered to be part of Siberia, I don't know it. But in modern usage of these terms I have never heard that somebody would call Khabarovsk, Vladivostok or Kamchatka as a part of Siberia.

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12-23-2012, 10:34 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faterson View Post
I wish someone would produce a geographical overview of KHL teams. I'm not sure which KHL teams can be termed "Siberian".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acallabeth View Post
Yugra, Avangard, Metallurg NK and Sibir.

Wow, so few?! I'm sure most Slovak hockey fans would say, off-hand, that there are at least 10 of them in the KHL.

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12-23-2012, 10:40 AM
  #44
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Wow, so few?! I'm sure most Slovak hockey fans would say, off-hand, that there are at least 10 of them in the KHL.
may be they should learn more geography

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12-23-2012, 10:55 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Siberian View Post
Far East is a recent term, very likely Soviet term. Far East is part of Siberia, no question about it.
Far East is not Siberia, but your are right, it is not worth filling up two pages with this stuff.

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12-23-2012, 11:23 AM
  #46
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I am getting sick and tired of some of you people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Si...alSubjects.png

This is the map of Siberia period. Enough of these stupid comments.

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12-23-2012, 11:27 AM
  #47
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I am getting sick and tired of some of you people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Si...alSubjects.png

This is the map of Siberia period. Enough of these stupid comments.
It's under "historical Siberia" in your map... So is Alaska.

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12-23-2012, 11:31 AM
  #48
Siberian
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It's under "historical Siberia" in your map... So is Alaska.
So you're saying it is Siberia? No.......

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12-23-2012, 11:45 AM
  #49
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So you're saying it is Siberia? No.......
France is historical Roman Empire, and Australia - Great Britain.

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12-23-2012, 11:49 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Siberian View Post
I am getting sick and tired of some of you people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Si...alSubjects.png

This is the map of Siberia period. Enough of these stupid comments.
yellow color (Far East) shows "Historical Siberia (and present Siberia in some usages)".
It already suggests that in some other usages it's not present Siberia.
People in Siberia would never call Khabarovsk a siberian city.
And population of Khabarovsk doesn't call Far East a Siberia. At least I have never heard it.


Last edited by od71: 12-23-2012 at 11:59 AM.
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