HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

If at the 2013 draft the BPA was a defenseman how would you feel about drafting him?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-23-2012, 12:17 PM
  #51
Leaf Rocket
Leaf Fan Till I Die
 
Leaf Rocket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Fredericton, NB
Country: India
Posts: 70,627
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew311 View Post
Burke said before the 2012 draft that this was the first time in his career that he may draft by positional need instead of BPA. Obviously he didn't have the opportunity in 2012, but I think he would have drafted Galchenyuk over Rielly if he was available at #5.

If the Leafs are drafting around the same spot as 2012, I take Monahan over any defenseman outside of Seth Jones. The Leafs desparately need their future #1 centre and Monahan has a good chance of developing into this. If Burke can magically trade for a young #1 centre then I draft BPA, if not I hope he picks BCA.
He actually changed his mind a few days before saying that they were considering doing that but they realized they shouldn't hinder away from what they've been doing from the past few drafts

__________________
Leaf Rocket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-23-2012, 12:18 PM
  #52
Interactif
Registered User
 
Interactif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: North York
Country: Canada
Posts: 27,125
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Rocket View Post
Not really. I really like both and trust me Lindholm has talent oozing out of him.

I'd be happy with either of them. It will be interesting what happens when burke is at the podium, I definitely like monahan a bit more due to him being a hometown boy and he's a guy I like as him being strong in all areas of the game. However lindholm IMO has a bit more offensive skill, not to mention covers the puck extremely well.
This one we agree on 100%, I am very high on Monahan too. He would make the perfect Leaf.

Interactif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-23-2012, 12:35 PM
  #53
Durkin67
Leaf Opinionist
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Canada/Africa
Posts: 3,230
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Impossibru View Post
So if at next years 2013 draft the BPA was a defenseman, say Jones or Pulock and all of the high end centres were taken, Given our strength at D how would you feel about drafting him?
BPA always, then deal from a position of strength to acquire assets that are needed more urgently. Imagine if the price for Eberle was a first and Gardiner...without Morgan Rielly and/or Seth Jones in the system, you can't really go there, but if a Schultz-Gardiner reunion made sense for EDM, something along those lines may make sense.

Durkin67 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-23-2012, 12:40 PM
  #54
Stephen
Registered User
 
Stephen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 31,611
vCash: 500
I'd probably look around the league and trade down a spot or two. Also depends on who the defenseman is. When the Islanders traded the Schenn pick to us for a 2nd and a 3rd to move down 2 spots, that was terrific value for them. What they did with the pick is another matter, but I'd look into getting a high second and a depth pick, get the prospect we want positionally (assuming this is a first line center type guy and not a Radek Faksa level prospect) and take another home run swing with a Tatar/Nyquist type skill pick with the second.

Stephen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-23-2012, 01:53 PM
  #55
Sundinisagod
Weed
 
Sundinisagod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Zagreb
Country: Croatia
Posts: 7,540
vCash: 500
BPA all day long.

Sundinisagod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-23-2012, 02:26 PM
  #56
7even
Moderator
Deus Ex Machina
 
7even's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Georgia
Country: United States
Posts: 7,920
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durkin67 View Post
BPA always, then deal from a position of strength to acquire assets that are needed more urgently. Imagine if the price for Eberle was a first and Gardiner...without Morgan Rielly and/or Seth Jones in the system, you can't really go there, but if a Schultz-Gardiner reunion made sense for EDM, something along those lines may make sense.
Eberle meh. Hall on the other hand...

7even is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-23-2012, 03:25 PM
  #57
Durkin67
Leaf Opinionist
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Canada/Africa
Posts: 3,230
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7even View Post
Eberle meh. Hall on the other hand...
To each his own. Hall is a beast, but I bet Eberle has a longer career. Soooo slick...

http://oilers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=648039

Durkin67 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-23-2012, 03:43 PM
  #58
showtime8
Registered User
 
showtime8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,451
vCash: 500
I might be one of the few people that think you don't go BPA. (The only way you do that is if its after the 2nd round)

This is how I see the Leafs system breaking down:

Much like the LA Kings, they have gone with 2 very young offensive minded dmen in Doughty and Voynov. They both skate very well and look to jump into the rush whenever there is a chance. Then, they have paired them with 2 veteran defensively responsible dmen in Willie Mitchell and Rob Scuderi. The way that they were so successful, outside of their amazing goaltending, is that they were matched up so well.

So where does this leave the Leafs? Well, they already have good young Jake Gardiner that has amazing wheels and can provide offence. Then they draft high end potential Morgan Rielly to do the exact same thing on another pairing. And by the time that they are both really coming into their potential, Phaneuf is a UFA. Just the way I see it happening in a couple years. Not saying that they won't retain him, just facts.

So where does this leave the Leafs in this draft?? Well, they already have their 2 defensive studs for the future. The only thing that they are missing is a forward with a high ceiling. Are they going to keep hanging their hats on Kadri being that guy? Nope, that ship has sailed. What about 1st round pick Biggs? Nope, not the type of player that they are looking for that will score 30 in a year. In my mind, I think that leaves you with one option.

Shinkaruk, Monahan, Barkov, Mackinnon. That's who you are looking for.

showtime8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-23-2012, 03:44 PM
  #59
showtime8
Registered User
 
showtime8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,451
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7even View Post
Eberle meh. Hall on the other hand...
Hall needs to figure out which way to position his head when he's skating.

He's going to be an Eric Lindros if he doesn't smarten up.

showtime8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-23-2012, 04:27 PM
  #60
Pyromaniac3
Registered User
 
Pyromaniac3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Toronto
Country: India
Posts: 3,251
vCash: 500
Would take Jones over anyone except Barkov and Mackinnon.

Pyromaniac3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-23-2012, 04:29 PM
  #61
TheLeastOfTheBunch
Registered User
 
TheLeastOfTheBunch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 31,521
vCash: 50
Gotta' go with BPA. Could trade one of those dmen for a similar forward.

TheLeastOfTheBunch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-23-2012, 04:38 PM
  #62
Pyrophorus
Registered User
 
Pyrophorus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Eastern GTA
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,176
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Pyrophorus Send a message via Yahoo to Pyrophorus Send a message via Skype™ to Pyrophorus
Quote:
Originally Posted by OptimusForever View Post
We don't talk about any guys really iutside the top 10. What if the lottery falls and we get 20th pick?
...or if we play into it *duh, duh, duuuuhhhh*

I wonder how mad people would be.

Pyrophorus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-23-2012, 04:53 PM
  #63
Pyrophorus
Registered User
 
Pyrophorus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Eastern GTA
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,176
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Pyrophorus Send a message via Yahoo to Pyrophorus Send a message via Skype™ to Pyrophorus
Quote:
Originally Posted by showtime8 View Post
Shinkaruk, Monahan, Barkov, Mackinnon. That's who you are looking for.
If we get #2, and only MacKinnon is off the board, I would say that
we would skip Jones.

Pyrophorus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-23-2012, 05:26 PM
  #64
Epictetus
Global Moderator
Create yourself.
 
Epictetus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,516
vCash: 4200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
I'd probably look around the league and trade down a spot or two. Also depends on who the defenseman is. When the Islanders traded the Schenn pick to us for a 2nd and a 3rd to move down 2 spots, that was terrific value for them. What they did with the pick is another matter, but I'd look into getting a high second and a depth pick, get the prospect we want positionally (assuming this is a first line center type guy and not a Radek Faksa level prospect) and take another home run swing with a Tatar/Nyquist type skill pick with the second.
With all do respect in my response since this was an actually good post and a worthwhile consideration, it comes down to the fact that no general manager would actually be stupid enough to make a trade like that (Cliff Fletcher aside, who happened to be the Leafs GM). I realize that I making a bold assertion by saying "no general manager would actually be stupid enough to..."

A 2nd and 3rd round pick for 2 spots is terrible asset management and questionable direction for a franchise.

The way I see it is:

Mackinnon, Jones
----
Barkov
---
All those other centers.

Any team that would trade from #7 to #5 to take a center in that position is not making a smart move, since all those centers are roughly equal. Fletcher, or hopefully another team, would be making the same mistake.

A trade to perhaps get up in the top 3, however, makes more sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrophorus View Post
If we get #2, and only MacKinnon is off the board, I would say that
we would skip Jones.
Why do we skip Jones? Is it because the Leafs need a center and Jones is not a center?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLeastOfTheBunch View Post
Gotta' go with BPA. Could trade one of those dmen for a similar forward.
This would be the most logical move as well as what is the best interest of the Leafs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
Is this serious or a joke? Take the BPA, always.
I have to agree; some of these posts are true comedy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
There is no set of rules that determines BPA, and is different for every single team based on its own amateur talent evaluators. BPA is an intangible and based on personal choice.

Therefore since teams don't release their private rankings we have no way of knowing who BPA is/was and how they determined that, and what went behind the selection made.
So if the Leafs have the #1 overall pick and they select a player like Drouin instead of Mackinnon and Jones, and Burke claims this is the "BPA", is he correct in that assertion?

It seems that this example follows from your definition of BPA.

My point is that there is a universal consideration outside of personal subjectivity [in these matters].

Quote:
Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre View Post
BPA is so subjective Burke could take a forward and say in all honesty hes BPA.
Then that is not BPA. That is instead, what Burke thinks is the BPA. The BPA takes everything into consideration, not what Burke wants (i.e., a center to fill an apparent center void, who can then be classified as "BPA" when he is really not).


Last edited by Epictetus: 12-23-2012 at 05:35 PM.
Epictetus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-23-2012, 05:28 PM
  #65
Kyle93
Registered User
 
Kyle93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: GTA
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,880
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrophorus View Post
If we get #2, and only MacKinnon is off the board, I would say that
we would skip Jones.
If we got #2 I would say we would go for Barkov.

Kyle93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-23-2012, 05:33 PM
  #66
Interactif
Registered User
 
Interactif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: North York
Country: Canada
Posts: 27,125
vCash: 500
Does anyone else here think like me, if Leafs win the lottery, that would be a first we get lucky for a change. Burke is going to pass on a US born, WHL produced, high character, leadership type big franchise defenceman in Seth Jones. I don't see it.

Interactif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-23-2012, 06:10 PM
  #67
Leafs03
Registered User
 
Leafs03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Toronto On
Country: Albania
Posts: 1,620
vCash: 500
best player!!!

Leafs03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-23-2012, 06:41 PM
  #68
ErnieLeafs
LOVE & LIVE the Game
 
ErnieLeafs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Windsor, Ont.
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,114
vCash: 500
The best part is how epictetus had absolutely no idea that he defined "subjective" inhis first sentence, the. Failed to make sense in responding. BPA is who OUR ORGANIZATION believes is BPA. It is a subjective judgement, and is different across the board.

People who honestly believe that need and fit aren't discussed when deciding on BPA and evaluating, haven't been closer to a hockey club than franchise mode.

ErnieLeafs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-23-2012, 06:50 PM
  #69
7even
Moderator
Deus Ex Machina
 
7even's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Georgia
Country: United States
Posts: 7,920
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by showtime8 View Post
Hall needs to figure out which way to position his head when he's skating.

He's going to be an Eric Lindros if he doesn't smarten up.
Yes. Hall's concussions have been his fault.


7even is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-23-2012, 06:51 PM
  #70
MastuhNinks
Registered User
 
MastuhNinks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: The Iron Throne
Posts: 4,450
vCash: 500
Draft BPA.

Though personally I like Barkov more than Jones if it came down to that.

MastuhNinks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-23-2012, 06:59 PM
  #71
showtime8
Registered User
 
showtime8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,451
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7even View Post
Yes. Hall's concussions have been his fault.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wttzK-Q_Frk

Instance 1:
Head down along the boards. Even if he doesn't lose his footing, there's a great chance that he gets leveled because his head is down.

Instance 2:
Not his fault at all. Does take a bad angle at it, but nothing he could do because he catches an edge.

Other clips of him withi his head down getting levelled...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70xInr4WoQo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8T786xEHJcQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxZr5-DxBss


I could go on, but these are all just examples of him not being prepared to take the hit or one of his dmen giving him a suicide pass.

showtime8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-23-2012, 07:17 PM
  #72
ErnieLeafs
LOVE & LIVE the Game
 
ErnieLeafs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Windsor, Ont.
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,114
vCash: 500
Unless all of the top centers are off the board, it should be BCA this year.
MacK > Jones
Barkov ceiling and Jones ceiling are sky high

and after those 3, you have Lindholm/Monahan/Drouin. Personally, I would rather take Lindholm or Drouin than Monahan, but that's just me. I wouldn't be upset with Monahan, I just think Lindholm is a little above him talent-wise.

ErnieLeafs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-23-2012, 07:35 PM
  #73
MrVisser
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 575
vCash: 500
Rather than state the obvious that you should draft BPA, maybe consider the option of trading down.

I'm not a scout and haven't seen a lot of these guys play. Hope to see what some of you may trade to go down and get a different prospect.

MrVisser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-23-2012, 08:07 PM
  #74
ErnieLeafs
LOVE & LIVE the Game
 
ErnieLeafs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Windsor, Ont.
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,114
vCash: 500
If we have #2, You can't argue the sky-high ceilings of Jones or Barkov, and cannot discount that one has put up unprecidented production, and plays in a men's league, as well as plays the position we have the biggest, most glaring hole at.

Barkov makes the most sense.
If we have #3, and MacK and Jones are off the board, Barkov is the easy pick.
If we have #3 and MacK and Barkov are off the board, I would personally trade down a spot or two, add another 2nd (to be packaged to move back into the 1st), and take Lindholm
If we pick at #4, and and MacK/Barkov/Jones are off the board, you go with Lindholm/Monahan.

ErnieLeafs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-23-2012, 08:08 PM
  #75
Stephen
Registered User
 
Stephen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 31,611
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
Failed to make sense in responding. BPA is who OUR ORGANIZATION believes is BPA. It is a subjective judgement, and is different across the board.

People who honestly believe that need and fit aren't discussed when deciding on BPA and evaluating, haven't been closer to a hockey club than franchise mode.
I also have to agree with this. The notion of BPA is extremely vague, and when you're in the fog of war of the draft table, it's not exactly like you're playing a video game with player attributes to look at.

What is a BPA? The guy who is currently the best junior player at the moment, or the guy with the best overall upside, or some combination of both? Or is the BPA the guy most likely to reach that upside? These answers aren't really that obvious.

Even if we use the most recent draft as an example, who is the BPA between Rielly and Galchenyuk? Taking out all variables of failure and assuming Rielly tops out as an 55-60 point franchise defenseman and Galchenyuk emerges as a 85 point franchise centerman, probably the best case scenario for both, who does Montreal take?

Stephen is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:21 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.