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1974 Canada/Soviet Summit

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Old
07-22-2012, 02:39 PM
  #101
Uncle Rotter
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Originally Posted by Elwood Blues View Post
Elite Prospects has him listed as the ass.coach for the Oilers from 80-82 and the head coach for Sudbury Wolves from 82-84.Other than that I have no idea what happened to him.

http://www.eliteprospects.com/staff.php?staff=2527
He coached Laurentian University from 1977 to 1980 after he got his degree there. Here's an article from 1980 about his desire to coach in the NHL:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...g=5165,4228264

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07-22-2012, 03:20 PM
  #102
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He coached Laurentian University from 1977 to 1980 after he got his degree there. Here's an article from 1980 about his desire to coach in the NHL:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...g=5165,4228264
Thanks so much for posting this!

Everyone I spoke to on Team Canada 74 raved about Billy as a coach. I really wish he had gotten a chance in the NHL.

Craig Wallace

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09-03-2012, 12:15 PM
  #103
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Just wanna remind people, it's the 40th anniversary of the '72 Summit Series which of course means it's also the 38th for the '74 WHA Summit Series, and both series are available on DVD, and are great to watch!

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09-03-2012, 04:13 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Rocket Richard View Post
Just wanna remind people, it's the 40th anniversary of the '72 Summit Series which of course means it's also the 38th for the '74 WHA Summit Series, and both series are available on DVD, and are great to watch!
It is wonderful hockey to watch.

Clearly as an author of a book on the 74 Summit I am biased but the hockey played in 74 between Canada and the Soviets was at a level and pace rarely if ever seen in the NHL or WHA. It was fantastic. It is really too bad this series has been basically forgotten by so many fans as it was tremendous to watch.

Craig Wallace

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09-04-2012, 02:10 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by cam042686 View Post
It is wonderful hockey to watch.

Clearly as an author of a book on the 74 Summit I am biased but the hockey played in 74 between Canada and the Soviets was at a level and pace rarely if ever seen in the NHL or WHA. It was fantastic. It is really too bad this series has been basically forgotten by so many fans as it was tremendous to watch.

Craig Wallace
IMO games 3 and 8 of the 1972 series are at least as good as any game in 1974*. But WHA's Team Canada definitely played better as a team than the NHL version in 1972. I'm not sure about the Soviets; they were probably a little better in Moscow this time.

* games 1, 4 and 6 are the best for me. Unfortunately, the DVD set doesn't have the 5th game (though I know that some footage of that game exist - which is available on YouTube, for example)

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09-04-2012, 06:43 PM
  #106
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IMO games 3 and 8 of the 1972 series are at least as good as any game in 1974*. But WHA's Team Canada definitely played better as a team than the NHL version in 1972. I'm not sure about the Soviets; they were probably a little better in Moscow this time.

* games 1, 4 and 6 are the best for me. Unfortunately, the DVD set doesn't have the 5th game (though I know that some footage of that game exist - which is available on YouTube, for example)
As both Rick Smith and Brad Selwood told me for my book "The Forgotten Summit," Team Canada was very well prepared for the Soviets. They watched the games from 1972, as well as films from the WC's from 1972, 73 and 74 and Lars Erik Sjoberg spent time with them telling them how the Soviets would play. (Coach Billy Harris had faced the Soviets as a player in the 1969 WC's and as coach of Sweden coached against them in the 72 WC's and Olympics so he knew them very well.) As a result Team Canada 74 played very well as a team. The difference really came down to talent - the Soviets in the end were better. Having said that if the officiating in Moscow had been better or at least neutral Canada may have been able to escape with a tie as the series was very close.

As for the individual games I thought Games 1, 4, and 7 along with the first half of Game 6 were the best.

Craig Wallace

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09-10-2012, 10:02 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by cam042686 View Post
Clearly as an author of a book on the 74 Summit I am biased

Craig Wallace
Ok, time to write about 72 Summit Series Craig!......

I'd read it!

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11-03-2012, 05:57 PM
  #108
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Ok, time to write about 72 Summit Series Craig!......

I'd read it!
Thanks -but what else can be written about the 1972 Series? There are so many books and such out there on that series. That is why I wrote about 1974. Always thought it was a poorly understood series. And yet based on the quality of the hockey played, it should be better remembered.

Craig Wallace

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12-14-2012, 09:12 PM
  #109
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I am attaching a link from Amazon to my book on the 1974 Summit "The Forgotten Summit." Of course I love the review but the person who left it makes an interesting point calling it the "What If' series. Indeed - "what if"?

1. What if Frank Mahovlich scores on his breakaway in the final seconds of Game 1? That would mean (going back to 1972) 3 straight losses by the Soviets to Canada in the final minutes of a game. What does that do to their moral?

2. What if Valdimir Petrov's goal in Game 2 counts (as it should have.) Even though Team Canada was far and away the better team that night, Petrov's goal would have made it 3-2. Can the Soviets then rally?

3. What if Billy Harris doesn't make all the lineup moves that he did in Game 3? Canada had clearly been the better team in the first two games.

4. What if Victor Dombrowski isn't an out and out "cheat" in Game 6? Before "he went to work" we were watching a very well played hockey game. Both teams were playing very well. If he was only inept both teams would have been furious at him. Never in my life have I seen a hockey official so outrageously biased as was Dombrowski.

5. What if Bobby Hull's goal at the end of Game 7 counted (as it should have.) Then Canada wins 5-4 and now Game 8 has meaning.

Craig Wallace

http://www.amazon.com/The-Forgotten-...rgotten+summit

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12-14-2012, 11:08 PM
  #110
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This is a book I'd most definitely read. My memories of that series are not nearly so vivid as they are for the '72 summit or the '76 Cananda Cup for some reason. My most vivid recollection is the team introductions for game one. The Soviets banging their sticks on the ice in appreciation of Gordie Howe, Bobby Hull and Frank Mahovlich was very classy.

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12-15-2012, 07:44 AM
  #111
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This is a book I'd most definitely read. My memories of that series are not nearly so vivid as they are for the '72 summit or the '76 Cananda Cup for some reason. My most vivid recollection is the team introductions for game one. The Soviets banging their sticks on the ice in appreciation of Gordie Howe, Bobby Hull and Frank Mahovlich was very classy.
Ed,

This was a great series. In many cases the quality of the hockey was better than that of 1972. And that was because Billy Harris did such a fine job preparing Team Canada for the series.

I hope you get the book and enjoy it. I interviewed Rick Smith and Brad Selwood among the Canadians and they both told me playing in the 1974 Summit was the pinnacle of their careers. (And Smith won a Stanely Cup in 1970 with Boston!)

Craig Wallace

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12-23-2012, 09:37 AM
  #112
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Here is a question to the group.

The WHA went into this series with the goal of showing that their league was truly world class and could compete with the best. The NHL wouldn't play them so the Soviets were just as good.

My question is would any result have changed the NHL's perspective on the WHA? I don't think it would have. If the WHA (Team Canada 74) won, the NHL would just have said "see look. Canada is so good that even a second class league with the right preparation (which Team Canada 72 didn't have and Team Canada 74 did have) can beat the Soviets." If they lost (which they did) then the NHL would say "see we told you that the WHA was crap."

I kind of think that while the 74 Summit produced fantastic hockey that the WHA was in a no win situation.

Craig Wallace

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12-23-2012, 10:09 AM
  #113
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Going Forward

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Originally Posted by cam042686 View Post
Here is a question to the group.

The WHA went into this series with the goal of showing that their league was truly world class and could compete with the best. The NHL wouldn't play them so the Soviets were just as good.

My question is would any result have changed the NHL's perspective on the WHA? I don't think it would have. If the WHA (Team Canada 74) won, the NHL would just have said "see look. Canada is so good that even a second class league with the right preparation (which Team Canada 72 didn't have and Team Canada 74 did have) can beat the Soviets." If they lost (which they did) then the NHL would say "see we told you that the WHA was crap."

I kind of think that while the 74 Summit produced fantastic hockey that the WHA was in a no win situation.

Craig Wallace
Question remains what happened going forward after the 1974 Summit.

The NHL and international hockey adapted. The WHA did not. Key early players aged and were not replaced. The league poached a few underagers who pocketed a few dollars on their way to the NHL and a few European players who cherry picked teams to suit their game before moving on to the NHL.

By the summer of 1979 the WHA was history.

The 1974 Summit Series team was cobbled together. With good preparation and coaching they could compete at the international level. However the next strata of talent in the 1974 WHA was weak and the league eventually paid the price.

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12-23-2012, 02:56 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
Question remains what happened going forward after the 1974 Summit.

The NHL and international hockey adapted. The WHA did not. Key early players aged and were not replaced. The league poached a few underagers who pocketed a few dollars on their way to the NHL and a few European players who cherry picked teams to suit their game before moving on to the NHL.

By the summer of 1979 the WHA was history.

The 1974 Summit Series team was cobbled together. With good preparation and coaching they could compete at the international level. However the next strata of talent in the 1974 WHA was weak and the league eventually paid the price.
Well yes and no. The WHA much more than the NHL began bringing in European players and began playing European teams. In the fall of 1975 both Winnipeg and Toronto staged their training camps in Europe and played European club teams. In December 1976 Winnipeg represented the WHA at the prestigious Izvestia Tournament in Moscow playing the Soviet, Czech, Swedish and Finnish National teams. (They did pretty well, losing 3-2 to the Czechs, tied Sweden 4-4, lost 6-4 to USSR, and beat Finland 2-1. Very good for a club team playing national teams.) When Winnipeg returned the Soviet Nationals then played an 8 game tour of the WHA going 6-2.

The following year Winnipeg again had their training camp in Europe and Cincinnati represented the WHA at the Rude Prava Cup tournament in Prague. Quebec represented the WHA at the 1977 Izvestia Tournament (and only tied 1 game) while both the Soviet Stars (a "National B team) and Nationals toured the WHA. interesting thing about the Stars - their games against WHA teams counted in the standings!

I could go on but the WHA far more than the NHL embraced international hockey.

Craig Wallace

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12-23-2012, 03:15 PM
  #115
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WHA and Europe

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Originally Posted by cam042686 View Post
Well yes and no. The WHA much more than the NHL began bringing in European players and began playing European teams. In the fall of 1975 both Winnipeg and Toronto staged their training camps in Europe and played European club teams. In December 1976 Winnipeg represented the WHA at the prestigious Izvestia Tournament in Moscow playing the Soviet, Czech, Swedish and Finnish National teams. (They did pretty well, losing 3-2 to the Czechs, tied Sweden 4-4, lost 6-4 to USSR, and beat Finland 2-1. Very good for a club team playing national teams.) When Winnipeg returned the Soviet Nationals then played an 8 game tour of the WHA going 6-2.

The following year Winnipeg again had their training camp in Europe and Cincinnati represented the WHA at the Rude Prava Cup tournament in Prague. Quebec represented the WHA at the 1977 Izvestia Tournament (and only tied 1 game) while both the Soviet Stars (a "National B team) and Nationals toured the WHA. interesting thing about the Stars - their games against WHA teams counted in the standings!

I could go on but the WHA far more than the NHL embraced international hockey.

Craig Wallace
WHA teams liked the gate and exposure when European teams toured North America. The only WHA team that could be viewed as having an International roster was Winnipeg, the others dabbled a little bit.

The other teams tended to be regional in team composition. Quebec focused on players with a province of Quebec hockey background. Edmonton, Calgary,Toronto, New England and Minnesota concentrated on players with regional backgrounds slowly morphing into pandering to the audience - Birmingham with its goons. Empty roster spots went to what was left over and available.

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12-23-2012, 03:54 PM
  #116
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WHA teams liked the gate and exposure when European teams toured North America. The only WHA team that could be viewed as having an International roster was Winnipeg, the others dabbled a little bit.

The other teams tended to be regional in team composition. Quebec focused on players with a province of Quebec hockey background. Edmonton, Calgary,Toronto, New England and Minnesota concentrated on players with regional backgrounds slowly morphing into pandering to the audience - Birmingham with its goons. Empty roster spots went to what was left over and available.
I thought you may all enjoy this Sports Illustrated article about the 1976 Izvestia Tournament.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...1919/index.htm

Craig Wallace

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12-23-2012, 04:08 PM
  #117
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both the Soviet Stars (a "National B team) and Nationals toured the WHA. interesting thing about the Stars - their games against WHA teams counted in the standings!
A Czechoslovak all-star squad also toured the WHA and the games counted in the standings too.

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12-23-2012, 05:13 PM
  #118
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Here is a Sports Illustrated story on the 74 Summit.

Craig Wallace

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...9046/index.htm

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12-23-2012, 06:37 PM
  #119
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Here is a Sports Illustrated story on the 74 Summit.

Craig Wallace

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...9046/index.htm
Too bad it was written by an idiot.

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12-24-2012, 11:16 AM
  #120
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Too bad it was written by an idiot.
As a writer/journalist myself I am curious as to why you feel Mark Mulvoy was a "idiot."I always found him to be a very fine writer.

Craig Wallace

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12-24-2012, 11:43 PM
  #121
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4. What if Victor Dombrowski isn't an out and out "cheat" in Game 6? Before "he went to work" we were watching a very well played hockey game. Both teams were playing very well. If he was only inept both teams would have been furious at him. Never in my life have I seen a hockey official so outrageously biased as was Dombrowski.
Dombrowski is also absolutely atrocious in the CSKA vs. Bruins game in Super Series '76. He makes some questionable calls/non-calls throughout, and Red Army's third goal by Kharlamov should have never counted as Mikhailov absolutely mugged Gilbert in his crease.

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12-25-2012, 08:16 PM
  #122
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Dombrowski is also absolutely atrocious in the CSKA vs. Bruins game in Super Series '76. He makes some questionable calls/non-calls throughout, and Red Army's third goal by Kharlamov should have never counted as Mikhailov absolutely mugged Gilbert in his crease.
It wasn't just that Dombrowski was a poor official. If he was just bad, both teams should be angry with him. For example Waldo Szczpak of Poland worked Games 4 and 5 of the 74 Summit. He wasn't very good and at times both Team Canada and the Soviets openly displayed anger/frustration with his calls (or lack there of.) Dombrowski was an out and out cheat. The calls he made against Team Canada in Game 6 were, with the exception of the call against Bruce MacGregor warranted. But he would not make calls against the Soviets. In my book "The Forgotten Summit" I mention a number of flagrant fouls committed by Soviet players that Dombrowski ignored. After the outrageous call he made against Bruce MacGregor, which basically finished Team Canada - after all it is hard to stay motivated when you know the referee will not let you win- I was stunned by another "non-call" early in the 3rd period. Vladimir Lutchenko raced across the ice, left his feet and leaped into Serge Bernier and nearly put Bernier into the 10th row of seats. I have never in my life see a more flagrant example of boarding/charging. Dombrowski was right there. He watched Bernier get annihilated and simply skated away. Hugh McLean of the CAHA mentioned in a post game interview after Game 6 that he had stormed into Dombrowski's dressing room in the 2nd intermission and demanded an explanation for the way Dombrowski was calling the game. He said that Dombrowski appeared to be "frightened" to make calls against the Soviets.

During the Soviet Nationals tour of the WHA in 1976-77 Edmonton coach Bep Guidolin said after the Soviets 3-2 victory over the Oilers in which Dombrowski officiated, that Dombrowski outside of being totally inept and biased was also "sneaky." Guidolin said Dombrowski would make calls against the Soviets - but 99% of those calls were off-setting penalties. So if you just checked the stats - yes there were penalties called against the Soviets. But there were rarely any power plays against them.

Craig Wallace

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12-26-2012, 04:27 PM
  #123
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Was Dombrowski really worse then Stacey Livingstone {sp?} in the Womans Gold Medal Game in the 2002 Olympics?

I remember how obvious of cheaters Bad and Badder were in the 72 series but I'm not remembering Dombrowski, though I was relatively young at the time.

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12-26-2012, 06:43 PM
  #124
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Was Dombrowski really worse then Stacey Livingstone {sp?} in the Womans Gold Medal Game in the 2002 Olympics?

I remember how obvious of cheaters Bad and Badder were in the 72 series but I'm not remembering Dombrowski, though I was relatively young at the time.
I remember she was pretty awful in the 2002 Gold Medal game. I am not sure if she was as bad as Dombrowski though.

I am positive that if Team Canada had "weathered the storm" after Dombrowski's call on Bruce MacGregor in Game 6, then Dombrowski would have found some reason to throw Bobby Hull or Gerry Cheevers or some other Canadian star out of the game. He was just not going to allow Canada to win that game.

Craig Wallace

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12-27-2012, 12:37 PM
  #125
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I remember she was pretty awful in the 2002 Gold Medal game. I am not sure if she was as bad as Dombrowski though.

I am positive that if Team Canada had "weathered the storm" after Dombrowski's call on Bruce MacGregor in Game 6, then Dombrowski would have found some reason to throw Bobby Hull or Gerry Cheevers or some other Canadian star out of the game. He was just not going to allow Canada to win that game.

Craig Wallace
Yea the eastern bloc were obvious and blatant cheats, largely why I get so flummuxed when all some ppull want to talk about in those original series' is the Bobby Clarke slash when the Soviets were so much worse in so many ways.

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