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Old
12-23-2012, 08:24 AM
  #76
guyzeur
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Rocket View Post
I know sens are high on stone but this is quite dumb for the pens to accept.
What did Maata accomplish that he's worth so much more that a trade for Stone by the Pens would be considered dumb?

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12-23-2012, 12:22 PM
  #77
Qward
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I would trade the entire farm team before I traded Silf.

That being said,

Gonchar/Stone for Depres

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Old
12-23-2012, 12:42 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Qward View Post
I would trade the entire farm team before I traded Silf.

That being said,

Gonchar/Stone for Depres
Because Pittsburgh wants an aging defenseman who they could sign for free in a few months...

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12-23-2012, 12:50 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by hlaverty06 View Post
Because Pittsburgh wants an aging defenseman who they could sign for free in a few months...
Apparently they do:
http://www.ottawasun.com/2012/12/22/...sergei-gonchar

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12-23-2012, 01:03 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelace View Post
He's a 38 year old who's a free agent next season, so if this 2012-2013 season ever does happen I wouldn't see the Pens giving anything more than a 3rd rounder for him.

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Old
12-23-2012, 01:23 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by MovesLikeJagr68 View Post
He's a 38 year old who's a free agent next season, so if this 2012-2013 season ever does happen I wouldn't see the Pens giving anything more than a 3rd rounder for him.
Dominic Moore got a 2nd and Paul Gaustad got a 1st. Gonchar will get more than a 3rd.

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12-23-2012, 01:31 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guyzeur View Post
What did Maata accomplish that he's worth so much more that a trade for Stone by the Pens would be considered dumb?
Maata's younger and oozes offensive skill for a guy in the backend while lacking quite a bit of jump on being his defensive game.

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Old
12-23-2012, 01:45 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
Dominic Moore got a 2nd and Paul Gaustad got a 1st. Gonchar will get more than a 3rd.
He'll bring similar value to what Kovalev brought back for Ottawa - between a 7th and a 5th. And if the pick is in this year's draft (an especially deep draft), then don't get your hopes up a 3rd round pick or higher.

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12-23-2012, 01:51 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Superunknown94 View Post
He'll bring similar value to what Kovalev brought back for Ottawa - between a 7th and a 5th. And if the pick is in this year's draft (an especially deep draft), then don't get your hopes up a 3rd round pick or higher.
Entirely different situation. Kovalev was poor that year and the Sens saved 1m by trading him. Gonchar is still valuable enough to return something significant.

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12-23-2012, 02:12 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by HavlatMach9 View Post
Entirely different situation. Kovalev was poor that year and the Sens saved 1m by trading him. Gonchar is still valuable enough to return something significant.
He's old and has been on the decline, much like Kovalev was when the Pens got him. He's still serviceable, but not nearly as effective as he once was. I'm surprised that Shero would want him back.

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12-23-2012, 02:18 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Superunknown94 View Post
He's old and has been on the decline, much like Kovalev was when the Pens got him. He's still serviceable, but not nearly as effective as he once was. I'm surprised that Shero would want him back.
He's still a top 4 dman. Kovalev is a completely different situation for the Sens.

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Old
12-23-2012, 03:40 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Xelace View Post
A Bruce Garrioch article doesn't exactly count as compelling proof, IMO.

There were reports back in the summer that the sens attempted to land Z Mychalek but wanted Gonchar to be part of that deal ... which the Pens declined.

If those were true, then its hard to imagine the Pens now being willing to give much for Go char now.

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12-23-2012, 04:07 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Leaf Rocket View Post
Maata's younger and oozes offensive skill for a guy in the backend while lacking quite a bit of jump on being his defensive game.
You didn't respond to my question: what did he accomplish so far?

I know you said that he oozes with offensive skill but the same thing can be said about Stone and other prospects.

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Old
12-23-2012, 04:09 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWeb View Post
A Bruce Garrioch article doesn't exactly count as compelling proof, IMO.

There were reports back in the summer that the sens attempted to land Z Mychalek but wanted Gonchar to be part of that deal ... which the Pens declined.

If those were true, then its hard to imagine the Pens now being willing to give much for Go char now.
They were also trying to land Parise / Suter so they wanted to shed salary. Now that they didn't get either, they have space for him.

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12-23-2012, 04:27 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Xelace View Post
They were also trying to land Parise / Suter so they wanted to shed salary. Now that they didn't get either, they have space for him.
They wont have any cap space after this year. Salary cap is expected to be at 60 which is where they are now. And thats with Malkin, letang and sutter needing new contracts in a year or two.

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12-23-2012, 10:39 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by guyzeur View Post
You didn't respond to my question: what did he accomplish so far?

I know you said that he oozes with offensive skill but the same thing can be said about Stone and other prospects.
He's proven he can lead a junior championship team in playoff scoring as a defenseman, and get selected in the 1st round. What more do you expect from a blueliner who was just drafted this past June?

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Old
12-23-2012, 11:02 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
He's proven he can lead a junior championship team in playoff scoring as a defenseman, and get selected in the 1st round. What more do you expect from a blueliner who was just drafted this past June?
At least you are answering the question and that make sense. But my original question was: why is it so dumb to trade Maata for Stone value wise. Stone did really well in the last World junior as a 19 year old. He was drafted in the 6th round because of an injury.

We are dealing with two prospects here. I'm not sure why a trade involving these these two would be dumb beside the fact that you need to replenish your defense with more skills and youth.

That I would understand.

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Old
12-24-2012, 12:49 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by guyzeur View Post
At least you are answering the question and that make sense. But my original question was: why is it so dumb to trade Maata for Stone value wise. Stone did really well in the last World junior as a 19 year old. He was drafted in the 6th round because of an injury.

We are dealing with two prospects here. I'm not sure why a trade involving these these two would be dumb beside the fact that you need to replenish your defense with more skills and youth.

That I would understand.
I don't have as much faith in Stone's skills translating to the NHL as I do Maatta's. He doesn't have the same pedigree, and I believe his skating could hamper him.

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12-24-2012, 12:54 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by guyzeur View Post
You didn't respond to my question: what did he accomplish so far?

I know you said that he oozes with offensive skill but the same thing can be said about Stone and other prospects.
And you're telling me stone has accomplished something? Don't tell me he was the WHL league scorer because I can easily retort that. Right now Maatta has way more going for him than stone as well more value to the pens.

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Old
12-24-2012, 01:08 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
I don't have as much faith in Stone's skills translating to the NHL as I do Maatta's. He doesn't have the same pedigree, and I believe his skating could hamper him.
Stone's skating is pretty average now and his best skill is his hockey sense.
At this point i'd be surprised if doesn't become at least a 3rd liner.

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Old
12-24-2012, 08:56 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
Dominic Moore got a 2nd and Paul Gaustad got a 1st. Gonchar will get more than a 3rd.
Ah, the Gaustad delusion. Slight problem...

1. Gonchar has a 5.5 mil salary. Gaustad doesn't. You are lucky if you can find anyone willing to take on such an out wack salary, let alone get anything in return.
2. Poile was desperate to make a splash in the playoffs.
3. Pens don't particularly need Gonchar. They already have a weak back end

The Pens are so overloaded on borderline NHL defensemen that the only trade that makes sense is to ship out one for Gonchar. The trade will be Gonchar for Straight, Bortuzzo or Lovejoy, the defenseman that the Pens must trade or lose on waivers if they don't play in the NHL. Ottawa gets a #7 guy who has some chance of turning into a top 6. Ottawa should be very happy if they could get Bortuzzo, in particular. That's as far as the Pens will go and that's only because they are going to lose 2 or these 3 guys if they don't trade them.

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Old
12-24-2012, 10:00 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by limite View Post
Ah, the Gaustad delusion. Slight problem...

1. Gonchar has a 5.5 mil salary. Gaustad doesn't. You are lucky if you can find anyone willing to take on such an out wack salary, let alone get anything in return.
2. Poile was desperate to make a splash in the playoffs.
3. Pens don't particularly need Gonchar. They already have a weak back end

The Pens are so overloaded on borderline NHL defensemen that the only trade that makes sense is to ship out one for Gonchar. The trade will be Gonchar for Straight, Bortuzzo or Lovejoy, the defenseman that the Pens must trade or lose on waivers if they don't play in the NHL. Ottawa gets a #7 guy who has some chance of turning into a top 6. Ottawa should be very happy if they could get Bortuzzo, in particular. That's as far as the Pens will go and that's only because they are going to lose 2 or these 3 guys if they don't trade them.
1. Gonchar is a top 4 D. Guastad is a 4th line centre.
2. Maybe Shero is desperate to better his D.
3. Well if the rumour is true than apparently they do.

Thats completely irrelevant speculation by you on what Gonchar can return.

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12-24-2012, 11:28 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
1. Gonchar is a top 4 D. Guastad is a 4th line centre.
2. Maybe Shero is desperate to better his D.
Gonchar is not going to help the Pens in their own end, and that's what needs an overhaul.

Quote:
3. Well if the rumour is true than apparently they do.
Bruce ****ing Garrioch. That is all.

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Old
12-24-2012, 11:32 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Gonchar is not going to help the Pens in their own end, and that's what needs an overhaul.
Makes sense.


Quote:
Bruce ****ing Garrioch. That is all.
Ya, i think the rumour is garbage.

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Old
12-24-2012, 11:42 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
1. Gonchar is a top 4 D. Guastad is a 4th line centre.
2. Maybe Shero is desperate to better his D.
Gonchar will make the D worse, not better. Gustad did not make 5.5 million. And he was not a 4th line center. You look like a fool making stuff like this up. 4th line centers do not average 11 goals a year.


Last edited by Leaf Rocket: 12-24-2012 at 12:18 PM. Reason: Be nice.
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