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Exhibition • Dec. 22 • Canada 2, Sweden 1 (SO) • Part II

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12-23-2012, 02:12 PM
  #301
Atomos2
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Originally Posted by Booyakasha View Post
he was aware of his surroundings....the hit shouldn't have been made.
that is the point.
a player shouldn't have to worry about being hit ILLEGALLY,...if that were the case, then there would be no flow to any game...
"kid, don't worry about making tic tac toe plays.....as soon as you make a pass, don't worry about getting open, but STOP! and BRACE yourself for a hit!" sounds like exciting hockey to me.
Getting hit after a hockey play is inevitable. People prepare to get hit after making a play. "Finish your check!" you should expect after you make a play, a player should make his presence known. But the hit was one or two seconds late, if it had been earlier it would have been a legal hit. Those two second wouldn't change the fact that the player still needed to be aware of his surroundings. It's a fast game, collisions can happen all over the ice even by your own teammates. The fact that the hit was late made it illegal, the hit itself was clean and that was what caused the injury.

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12-23-2012, 02:14 PM
  #302
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Originally Posted by Vikke View Post
To my surprise, the IIHF and NHL rulebooks are different on this particular subject. According to the IIHF rules, the ref cannot give a major for interference. The NHL rules give the ref that option.
In other words, Jenner shouldn't be suspended and we should all move on and await what actually happens.

If they suspend him more than a single game, I'd be shocked. If they're smart they'd give him nothing.

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12-23-2012, 02:15 PM
  #303
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Actually you are incredibly wrong. The resulting injury, by letter of the IIHF rulebook, says that it DOES have impact on the penalty.


http://www.iihf.com/iihf-home/sport/iihf-rule-book.html

It doesn't explicitly say the injury can affect any supplementary discipline, but it doesn't explicitly say it can't... which implies that it can be considered.

So keep on seeing incorrect things, but at least read the rule book.
i know what the rule book says u twit. i am saying it Shouldnt effect the suspension.

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12-23-2012, 02:18 PM
  #304
Vikke
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
In other words, Jenner shouldn't be suspended and we should all move on and await what actually happens.

If they suspend him more than a single game, I'd be shocked. If they're smart they'd give him nothing.
Except the referee gave him a charging major and it's pretty likely, given his history, the fact that Pettersson was injured on the play and also the fact that the incident took place during an exhibition game, that Jenner will get at least two games, perhaps even more.

I know you consider it a complete outrage, but just admit that you're wrong.

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12-23-2012, 02:19 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by phillipsj89 View Post
i know what the rule book says u twit. i am saying it Shouldnt effect the suspension.
It affects the suspension length in the NHL, too.

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12-23-2012, 02:23 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by Vikke View Post
Except the referee gave him a charging major and it's pretty likely, given his history, the fact that Pettersson was injured on the play and also the fact that the incident took place during an exhibition game, that Jenner will get at least two games, perhaps even more.

I know you consider it a complete outrage, but just admit that you're wrong.
Under your paradigm of agreeing with a botched call he could be suspended.

Under my paradigm of thinking for myself and acknowledging that the call was botched then no he should not be suspended at all.

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12-23-2012, 02:29 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Under your paradigm of agreeing with a botched call he could be suspended.

Under my paradigm of thinking for myself and acknowledging that the call was botched then no he should not be suspended at all.
Well, I just asked an IIHF referee what he thought and according to him, due to the severity of the incident along with the fact that Pettersson got hurt, which is an automatic major, the referee made the right call.

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12-23-2012, 02:34 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Vikke View Post
Well, I just asked an IIHF referee what he thought and according to him, due to the severity of the incident along with the fact that Pettersson got hurt, which is an automatic major, the referee made the right call.
Punished for hurting someone in a contact sport...

No wonder hockey is a dud internationally.

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12-23-2012, 03:26 PM
  #309
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Clean hit. Where is the minor call for diving? Didnt Sweden know that the prupose of exhibition games is taking late hits and show "physical presence"


Last edited by fredligh: 12-23-2012 at 03:40 PM.
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12-23-2012, 03:33 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by Atomos2 View Post
Getting hit after a hockey play is inevitable. People prepare to get hit after making a play. "Finish your check!" you should expect after you make a play, a player should make his presence known. But the hit was one or two seconds late, if it had been earlier it would have been a legal hit. Those two second wouldn't change the fact that the player still needed to be aware of his surroundings. It's a fast game, collisions can happen all over the ice even by your own teammates. The fact that the hit was late made it illegal, the hit itself was clean and that was what caused the injury.
If some part of the hit was illegal, than it's illegal. It doesn't matter one bit whether the rest of the hit was clean. You can also put your ellbow against someone's head while not being late, not jumping or charging in any other way and it still wouldn't be clean. If one of the factors doesn't fit the criteria of a clean hit, and being late is among those, then it isn't a clean hit. People need to stop acting like the timing of the hit is somehow outside the other criteria.

"Finish your check" is such a bs saying. Talk about something that was twisted into something into entirely different. Your were allowed to finish your check because sometimes you were already so close that contact was inevitable. Somehow idiotic coaches turned that in such a way that players go out and "finish their check" way after the puck is gone. That never used to be part of the game back in the days, because hitting an opponent who had already played the puck put you out of position. Now you have players who want to wow with big hits, with a complete disregard to what happens with the puck. That is not a good hit, a good hit can't put your team in a bad position.
A great hit is a hit that takes an opponent out of the play and gets your team the puck, thus creating a chance for offense while the opponent isn't organized properly. Or, in some cases, a hit that stops the opponent in his tracks and gives your team the chance to reorganize.

Nothing wrong with hitting someone right after he passed the puck, wearing an opponent down can help, and you already were in motion for a hit anyway, but these hits long after a pass was made serve no real purpose at all. Either you run into a well prepared opponent, in which case you aren't any better off than he is, or you catch him in a vulnerable moment and risk a big penalty.

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12-23-2012, 03:35 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
No. But since you are such a long time diehard, point out the rule that 1) makes it illegal or 2) allows such a player to be hit when he has long lost possession of the puck.

Come on Mr. Expert. Cite such a rule for me.
Assuming you've watched hockey before, you're probably aware that players are allowed usually up to 2 seconds to finish a hit. I'm not arguing whether this was or was not the case in this instance but if you actually believe that every hit will be called interference the moment someone gets rid of the puck, I really don't know what to tell you.

If you honestly believe that you are free to admire a pass the moment you let it go, you've never played hockey at any level and you haven't watched much (or you sit completely perplexed about 500 times per game when the ref's arm fails to go up).

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12-23-2012, 04:01 PM
  #312
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It was a late hit, for sure. And it really sucks that Pettersson got hurt. That all being said, my biggest issue in all this is JP being caught admiring his pass. When you come out from behind the net like that, and make the cross-ice pass, you can't sit there and follow the pass. As soon as you make it, you need to have your head up to see who's on the ice. It's all about awareness and it's what kept guys like Gretzky alive for so many years. If you're going to skate with your head down, as Crosby often does, or admire your pass as JP did....then things like this are going to happen.

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12-23-2012, 04:06 PM
  #313
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Originally Posted by Noeller View Post
It was a late hit, for sure. And it really sucks that Pettersson got hurt. That all being said, my biggest issue in all this is JP being caught admiring his pass. When you come out from behind the net like that, and make the cross-ice pass, you can't sit there and follow the pass. As soon as you make it, you need to have your head up to see who's on the ice. It's all about awareness and it's what kept guys like Gretzky alive for so many years. If you're going to skate with your head down, as Crosby often does, or admire your pass as JP did....then things like this are going to happen.
Exactly, to bad not everyone gets punished for admiring their passes, then half the Canadian team would be having broken ribs right now

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12-23-2012, 04:16 PM
  #314
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Exactly, to bad not everyone gets punished for admiring their passes, then half the Canadian team would be having broken ribs right now
How do ya figger?

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12-23-2012, 04:53 PM
  #315
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Originally Posted by Kessly Snipes View Post
OK one more time, lets try and get this through your thick, stubborn head. We accept that he got the penalty and the game, but we do not agree that the result should have an impact on anything. If thats the kind of hockey you want to see go watch some house league tyke games and leave the real hockey to us.

Stop trying to wussify the game, injuries happen, suck it up. It happens move on. NO need to vilify the kid for a body to body slightly late hit on a weak kid.
You can quit the tough guy act because I'm really not impressed nor am I intimidated by it.

Your homeboy committed a stupid penalty and is going to pay a price for it. I realize you'd probably like it better if illegal hits went unpunished, but most hockey governing bodies are taking that out.

People want to see skilled players showing their skills, and tough players playing good hard clean hockey. Late hits when a guy decides he's going to light someone up even if it's against the rules are going to be punished, so you can quit the "tykes" game crap, put on your big boy pants and accept that your punk of a player is being called our for a cheap hit.

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12-23-2012, 04:55 PM
  #316
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Originally Posted by Kessly Snipes View Post
Who has said the Jenner play was not a bad play? I think we all agree it was. The discussion is now on whether he should get 0, 1, 2, 3, 4+ games. Knowing he IIHF he will get a bunch, but he shouldn't. Sucks the kid got hurt, but you can't go suspending people every time someone gets hurt.
If it's from an illegal hit, why can't you? If it's from an illegal hit, why shouldn't you?

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12-23-2012, 04:56 PM
  #317
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Do you recommend that all men, women, and children should walk across a crosswalk with headphones on and without looking both ways?
Nope but if a driver intentionally runs them over while they are doing it, he gets full blame in any court of law.

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12-23-2012, 04:59 PM
  #318
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Originally Posted by Atomos2 View Post
Getting hit after a hockey play is inevitable. People prepare to get hit after making a play. "Finish your check!" you should expect after you make a play, a player should make his presence known. But the hit was one or two seconds late, if it had been earlier it would have been a legal hit. Those two second wouldn't change the fact that the player still needed to be aware of his surroundings. It's a fast game, collisions can happen all over the ice even by your own teammates. The fact that the hit was late made it illegal, the hit itself was clean and that was what caused the injury.
Pierre Turgeon should have been bracing himself for the hit. How dare he raise his arms in celebration. Had he been aware of his surroundings he would have ducked Hunter's stick. Totally Turgeon's fault.

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12-23-2012, 05:01 PM
  #319
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Originally Posted by phillipsj89 View Post
i know what the rule book says u twit. i am saying it Shouldnt effect the suspension.
Why? Because you say so? The results of the illegal hit can of course be used to help set the penalty. Have you been so busy calling other people names that u missed any of Shanahan's videos?

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12-23-2012, 05:01 PM
  #320
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jesus christ guys, give it up, we lose him, so what....its not like he's going to be a major factor for this team's success going forward.

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12-23-2012, 05:03 PM
  #321
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
Assuming you've watched hockey before, you're probably aware that players are allowed usually up to 2 seconds to finish a hit. I'm not arguing whether this was or was not the case in this instance but if you actually believe that every hit will be called interference the moment someone gets rid of the puck, I really don't know what to tell you.

If you honestly believe that you are free to admire a pass the moment you let it go, you've never played hockey at any level and you haven't watched much (or you sit completely perplexed about 500 times per game when the ref's arm fails to go up).
I'll take that as a "You're right, no such rule exists."

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12-23-2012, 05:28 PM
  #322
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How do ya figger?
no one is keeping their head up 100% of the time.

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12-23-2012, 05:33 PM
  #323
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It affects the suspension length in the NHL, too.
YA, I KNOW, i don't agree with that either!

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12-23-2012, 05:36 PM
  #324
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Why? Because you say so? The results of the illegal hit can of course be used to help set the penalty. Have you been so busy calling other people names that u missed any of Shanahan's videos?
The fact of the matter is:

Because a player is injury prone or hasnt drank milk in his life SHOULD NOT factor into the length of the suspension.

JUST LIKE the double-minor for highsticking drawing blood. EXAMPLE, I get highsticked, I bite my lip, show ref blood, automatically 4 Min penalty. THAT IS DUMBBBBBB.

/Rant

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12-23-2012, 05:42 PM
  #325
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You can quit the tough guy act because I'm really not impressed nor am I intimidated by it.

Your homeboy committed a stupid penalty and is going to pay a price for it. I realize you'd probably like it better if illegal hits went unpunished, but most hockey governing bodies are taking that out.

People want to see skilled players showing their skills, and tough players playing good hard clean hockey. Late hits when a guy decides he's going to light someone up even if it's against the rules are going to be punished, so you can quit the "tykes" game crap, put on your big boy pants and accept that your punk of a player is being called our for a cheap hit.
It wasn't a stupid penalty. He finished his check. It was very barely late (30 digital frames is just about 1 second). In the NHL and CHL they give you about 1.5 - 2 seconds of leeway.

I hope he brings this type of intensity to all his games. When Jackets players / prospects hit, I want them to hit HARD. No flying elbows, no hits from behind. I think you need to re-acquaint yourself with how professional athletes go about playing a contact sport. They hit as hard as they can and hope the other player goes down.

This is the kind of mindset that I want FAR AWAY from the sport:
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Even if they all were from clean hits according to the rulebook, no one's arguing that, it's still the kind of intensity and toughness the game can do without.
The sport needs as much intensity as a player can bring at all times.


Last edited by Crede777: 12-23-2012 at 05:47 PM.
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