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1995 draft: our worst?

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Old
12-23-2012, 09:23 AM
  #26
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I'd place 99 as our worst draft with 95 and 97 right behind them.

The years 1995 thru to 2000 was the worst period of Habs history for play, and for drafting. Sad days.

At least 2007-2012 is looking much better (2008 can still be salvaged based on Quaillier and Kristo)

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12-23-2012, 01:19 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
The best draft in Habs history is 1984.

Petr Svoboda at number 5
Shayne Corson at number 8
Stephane Richer at number 29
Patrick Roy at number 51
And a bunch of busts.
In 1971 the Canadiens drafted Lafleur and Robinson in the same year. Maybe 84 had more quantity but you can't beat Flower/Big Bird for quality.

2007 will go down in the books years from now for McDonaugh/Pacioretty/Subban

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12-23-2012, 03:35 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Halifaxhab View Post
I'd place 99 as our worst draft with 95 and 97 right behind them.

The years 1995 thru to 2000 was the worst period of Habs history for play, and for drafting. Sad days.

At least 2007-2012 is looking much better (2008 can still be salvaged based on Quaillier and Kristo)
As of now, the "potential" of Kristo is much better than the actual Ryan White. Which makes 2006 worst than 2008 EVEN if Kristo hasn't played in the NHL yet.

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12-23-2012, 04:32 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
As of now, the "potential" of Kristo is much better than the actual Ryan White. Which makes 2006 worst than 2008 EVEN if Kristo hasn't played in the NHL yet.
all the more reason I am hoping for homeruns in 2011, 2012 and the upcoming 2013.

I'd be happy with a couple "home runs" in there and a few "doubles"

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12-23-2012, 05:19 PM
  #30
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A lot of bad things when on with the Habs during the Houle era
To be fair to him, Serge had been living off some strong 80s drafts for several years. I think looking back we can all agree the organization was getting very stale.

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12-23-2012, 05:40 PM
  #31
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To be fair to him, Serge had been living off some strong 80s drafts for several years. I think looking back we can all agree the organization was getting very stale.
Serge did an average job between 1990 and 1994 with the drafts. He had some mediocre first round choices but did a decent enough job at finding third and fourth liners. He seemed to always find a good player in the later rounds (1990: Craig Conroy, 1991: Brian Savage, 1993: Darcy Tucker, 1994: Tomas Vokoun). The 1992 and 1993 Drafts were pretty good for the team and 93 was getting Saku Koivu.

The biggest issue I found with Serge was he was clearly late on the European explosion of the late 80s/early 90s. Montreal didn't draft a single player outside of North America in 1989, a draft which had Federov, Konstantinov, Irbe, Malakhov, Bure and Lidstrom ready to be taken third round and later. Inexcusable.

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12-23-2012, 06:42 PM
  #32
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Whiffing on your first-round picks is a big hurdle to overcome, though. Serge hit one out of the park with Saku but you have to go back to Svoboda for a first-rounder that he nailed.

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12-23-2012, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Habbadasher View Post
Terry Ryan was the dominant physical power forward (in the WHL) that we had been looking for 20 years. The problem was that his game did not translate well to the NHL. He was a little too small for that style in the NHL, and ran into concussion trouble as a result which derailed his career.

When Roy was drafted there was a rule: never draft a goalie in the first round. He played on a really bad team. Goalies were the Rodney Dangerfield's of hockey, they were paid poorly, and were seen as odd characters. In short, they got no respect. Roy not only changed the position, he changed the pay scale, and when goalies are drafted.
There was nothing wrong with Ryan's size.......it was his skating.
Injuries later finished him off but he really was an atrocious skater. I think every hab fan was holding their breath in hopes that Winnipeg would let Doan slide to us.

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12-23-2012, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
The best draft in Habs history is 1984.

Petr Svoboda at number 5
Shayne Corson at number 8
Stephane Richer at number 29
Patrick Roy at number 51
And a bunch of busts.

Here's the interesting thing: the Habs apparently offered the Penguins all of their picks for the 1st overall, who was Mario Lemieux. Penguins said no. In hindsight, would that have been a good trade?
I would take Mario and run. Patrick Roy was incredible but it was partly due to the fact that he was teamed with Francois Allaire who is the real mastermind behind revolutionizing the goaltending position. If Roy never meats Allaire than he probably doesn't develop the butterfly style that he became famous for.

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12-23-2012, 09:12 PM
  #35
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In theory yes, but he was also one of the dumbest players I've ever seen play. Just didn't know when to pick his spots at all.
No, he just never had the foot speed to justify being a first round pick. He was a good player in the WHL, tough as nails... just a worse version Todd Harvey. A lot of players in that era never could translate from the WHL, it was a really low quality league for skating back then.

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12-23-2012, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
There was nothing wrong with Ryan's size.......it was his skating.
Injuries later finished him off but he really was an atrocious skater. I think every hab fan was holding their breath in hopes that Winnipeg would let Doan slide to us.
Generally, I agree, however, skating was not as critical then as it is today.

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12-23-2012, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
No, he just never had the foot speed to justify being a first round pick. He was a good player in the WHL, tough as nails... just a worse version Todd Harvey. A lot of players in that era never could translate from the WHL, it was a really low quality league for skating back then.
And also the fact that hockey sense wasn't THAT much scouted the way it is now. While some still exist, the idea of becoming bigger and grittier was way more simpler back then than it is now where while you want to become bigger, you also take into account a whole lot of other things. Back then, we needed to become bigger...so we went with Bilodeau and Co. True that foot speed was also seen as something they would all be able to improve which also wasn't true. Yet, the league back then was not as speedy as it is now. Tons of players ended up being good NHL'ers with average speed. But something hasn't changed is that hockey sense is the key ingredient. Mixed with a whole lot of other things like organization dumbness, players not willing to do the sacrificies and so on.

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12-23-2012, 09:38 PM
  #38
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In theory yes, but he was also one of the dumbest players I've ever seen play. Just didn't know when to pick his spots at all.
I agree, he took on guys much bigger than himself.

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12-24-2012, 12:08 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
And also the fact that hockey sense wasn't THAT much scouted the way it is now. While some still exist, the idea of becoming bigger and grittier was way more simpler back then than it is now where while you want to become bigger, you also take into account a whole lot of other things. Back then, we needed to become bigger...so we went with Bilodeau and Co. True that foot speed was also seen as something they would all be able to improve which also wasn't true. Yet, the league back then was not as speedy as it is now. Tons of players ended up being good NHL'ers with average speed. But something hasn't changed is that hockey sense is the key ingredient. Mixed with a whole lot of other things like organization dumbness, players not willing to do the sacrificies and so on.
Totally agree. Terry never had much hockey sense, but neither did Turner Stevenson. I wonder if they thought they could shape Terry into that type of player and then realized he was lacking a lot of the basics? Anyways, they never took him out of nowhere, Central Scouting had him ranked high as well, so it really was a collection of people that saw something that wasn't there.

Montreal was really a mess in the mid 90's at prospect building and scouting. I remember it well

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12-25-2012, 12:53 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
No, he just never had the foot speed to justify being a first round pick. He was a good player in the WHL, tough as nails... just a worse version Todd Harvey. A lot of players in that era never could translate from the WHL, it was a really low quality league for skating back then.
There were also a few times were he got some chances on an offensive line and would just drop the gloves 10 seconds into a shift playing with Recchi, for example. I know he didn't get that chance too often but it was frustrating to watch the couple of times he did.

That's more what I was getting at with spot picking, but what you're saying is right too. Even Matt Higgins, another one of the Habs 90's 1st rounders had that same WHL skating quality. Things have changed a lot since then for sure.

If I recall correctly the Habs were really wanting Doan and thought he'd be there for sure, not sure what changed with Winnipeg, although I could be wrong too.

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12-25-2012, 01:37 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
The best draft in Habs history is 1984.

Petr Svoboda at number 5
Shayne Corson at number 8
Stephane Richer at number 29
Patrick Roy at number 51
And a bunch of busts.

Here's the interesting thing: the Habs apparently offered the Penguins all of their picks for the 1st overall, who was Mario Lemieux. Penguins said no. In hindsight, would that have been a good trade?
Yes it would have. If we make that trade we weren't trading Svoboda, Corson, Richer and Roy for Lemieux, we were trading a bunch of draft picks for Lemieux. Huge difference. If we made the deal nobody would look back and say look who we traded who Lemieux because we never had those players.

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12-25-2012, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
Yes it would have. If we make that trade we weren't trading Svoboda, Corson, Richer and Roy for Lemieux, we were trading a bunch of draft picks for Lemieux. Huge difference. If we made the deal nobody would look back and say look who we traded who Lemieux because we never had those players.
I hear what you are saying however his premise is correct. It is comparing apples to apples as we know for a fact that if that trade was made then it would have been Svoboda, Corson, Richer and Roy that we would be missing out on. It is obviously unlikely that Pit drafts the same players but that is irrelevant to the conversation. History has shown that from the Montreal Canadiens perspective these were the assets that were to be lost/gained.

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12-26-2012, 02:23 AM
  #43
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Remember when the Habs drafted Eric Chouinard instead of his linemate?

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Old
12-26-2012, 06:52 AM
  #44
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Remember when the Habs drafted Eric Chouinard instead of his linemate?
if we draft Gagné instead of Chouinard, that 1998 draft would be one of the top 5 ever. Now, it's just a very very good draft. Ribeiro, Beauchemin, Markov and Ryder. Really not bad to say the least....

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12-26-2012, 05:16 PM
  #45
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if we draft Gagné instead of Chouinard, that 1998 draft would be one of the top 5 ever. Now, it's just a very very good draft. Ribeiro, Beauchemin, Markov and Ryder. Really not bad to say the least....
Just be glad that we have Timmins now as he would never draft a soft player with skating issues in the first round. I wanted Kalinin at the time as he seemed like a steal. Gagne wasn't projected to be much of a scorer......part of the learning process for myself.

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