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Nick Schultz + Paajarvi + Omark package?

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Old
12-23-2012, 10:18 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Way too early? Yeah right. He's almost there. The guy is 21 years old and a former 9th overall pick. He's had ample opportunity to play in the NHL, and as of right now, if there was a season, it's questionable as to whether or not he would be on one of the worst teams in the league.

Without a doubt, if he's going to be anything but a bust, he needs to play in the NHL as soon as it resumes. Toronto wouldn't be in a position to do that, so all they'd be doing is trading for a future bust.
21 years old is not old for a prospect. He has had opportunity at the NHL level, and performed well as a rookie, and was sent down because he needed more than 4th line minutes to develop. You have no clue whatsoever if you think a 21 year old developing is too old and a "bust".

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12-23-2012, 10:24 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Omark is a bust in the NHL, Paajarvi is probably a 3rd liner at best, and Schultz is a bottom pairing defenseman. Ask a Wings fan if they're interested in giving up their best forward prospect for them.
Nyquist and Paajarvi are not that far off when it comes to overall talent and skill.

Paajarvi is younger and has already proven more at an NHL level. Detroit needs youth in their top 9. And Paajarvi would add size to that. Not to mention Detroit's coaching would probably turn Paajarvi into a much better player than he was with the Oilers.

Omark was never a bust at the NHL level, he was a bust on our 3rd and 4th lines for sure. He has no place in our top 6, where in Detroit he could replace a guy like Bertuzzi.

Schultz could bring stability to a team considering Coco cola is going to be a hot mess.

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12-23-2012, 10:36 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Omark is a bust in the NHL, Paajarvi is probably a 3rd liner at best, and Schultz is a bottom pairing defenseman. Ask a Wings fan if they're interested in giving up their best forward prospect for them.
Lol what? That'd be like me calling Nyquist and Kindl AHLers

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12-23-2012, 10:41 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by WeridAl View Post
Volchenkov has a NTC, and what it sounds like he like's the Devils. Besides the Oilers are full up on the left side on D with Smid, Schultz, and Klefbom next year. The also have a couple more coming up in Musil and Marincin.

Not interested in Volchenkov and he's not worth MPS, the devils would have to add if they wanted to pry him out of Edmonton.
Value is definitely fair. Volchenkov for MPS. Whether or not you want to do it and MPS's value to Edmonton is a different story. Volchenkov for MPS is a struggling player for struggling player. One is more proven, while the other has a lot more potential, and I think those two offset each other.

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12-23-2012, 10:43 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
Lol what? That'd be like me calling Nyquist and Kindl AHLers
Yes, it is. The truth. Nyquist is an AHLer. Right now. If the season were on, Nyquist would be in Detroit's top-6.

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12-23-2012, 10:43 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
21 years old is not old for a prospect. He has had opportunity at the NHL level, and performed well as a rookie, and was sent down because he needed more than 4th line minutes to develop. You have no clue whatsoever if you think a 21 year old developing is too old and a "bust".
If we're talking about guys from some swedish tier 3 league or Jr. A / College, then no, 21 isn't old. When we're talking about guys at the top of their draft class, then yes, 21 is quite old to be earning a permanent spot in the NHL.

I'm not saying they are busts at this point, but they're certainly close, and have definitely lost some potential wasting away in the minors. , If Kadri/Paajarvi aren't playing in the NHL as soon as it's back, they will be busts. There's nothing left to learn for them in the AHL, and if they haven't developed enough to contribute at the NHL at this point, it's unlikely they're ever going to develop enough to contribute anywhere near what a team would expect of them given their draft position.

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12-23-2012, 10:45 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Yes, it is. The truth. Nyquist is an AHLer. Right now. If the season were on, Nyquist would be in Detroit's top-6.
You missed the point. Nyquist and Kindl aren't going to be career AHLers, just the same as Nick Schultz is a top 4 dman, Paajarvi still has top 6 upside, and on the right team, Omark could be a good fit in a scoring role

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12-23-2012, 10:51 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
You missed the point. Nyquist and Kindl aren't going to be career AHLers, just the same as Nick Schultz is a top 4 dman, Paajarvi still has top 6 upside, and on the right team, Omark could be a good fit in a scoring role
I don't see your logic. Nyquist isn't going to be a career AHLer just the same as Nick Schultz is a top-4 defenseman? Uh, Nyquist isn't going to be a career AHLer just the same as Nick Schultz is going to continue to decline while signed to that ridiculous cap hit until he's barely an NHL player.

I'll give you that Paajarvi could still potentially, if everything goes right, be a decent 2nd liner.

BUT. Nick Schultz is not a top-4 D-man. Omark has next to zero value to NHL teams.

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12-23-2012, 11:00 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
I don't see your logic. Nyquist isn't going to be a career AHLer just the same as Nick Schultz is a top-4 defenseman? Uh, Nyquist isn't going to be a career AHLer just the same as Nick Schultz is going to continue to decline while signed to that ridiculous cap hit until he's barely an NHL player.

I'll give you that Paajarvi could still potentially, if everything goes right, be a decent 2nd liner.

BUT. Nick Schultz is not a top-4 D-man. Omark has next to zero value to NHL teams.
I agree Omark has basically no value, but he could still work well in the right system. And Schultz is only 30 and signed for 1 more year at 3.5 million. Are you sure you're not getting him mixed up with someone? He's a solid top 4 shutdown dman

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12-23-2012, 11:00 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
I don't see your logic. Nyquist isn't going to be a career AHLer just the same as Nick Schultz is a top-4 defenseman? Uh, Nyquist isn't going to be a career AHLer just the same as Nick Schultz is going to continue to decline while signed to that ridiculous cap hit until he's barely an NHL player.

I'll give you that Paajarvi could still potentially, if everything goes right, be a decent 2nd liner.

BUT. Nick Schultz is not a top-4 D-man. Omark has next to zero value to NHL teams.
Nick Scultz certainly looked like a good second pair defenseman on the Oilers last year, so I'm not sure what you're basing your judgement on.

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12-23-2012, 11:30 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
I agree Omark has basically no value, but he could still work well in the right system. And Schultz is only 30 and signed for 1 more year at 3.5 million. Are you sure you're not getting him mixed up with someone? He's a solid top 4 shutdown dman
Yeah, $3.5M is awful for him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
Nick Scultz certainly looked like a good second pair defenseman on the Oilers last year, so I'm not sure what you're basing your judgement on.
Basing it on watching Nick Schultz last season?

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12-23-2012, 11:35 PM
  #37
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3.5 million for Nick Schultz is awful? Well now I know for sure you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

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12-23-2012, 11:43 PM
  #38
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3.5 million for Nick Schultz is awful? Well now I know for sure you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
Nick Schultz is a null offensive player, null physical player, who plays against second-tier opponents and still ends up with a -7 Rel Corsi. Oilers fans are just impressed with him because he looked better than he was due to an unsustainable on-ice save percentage of .940%.

You don't pay those types of players $3.5M.

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12-23-2012, 11:48 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Nick Schultz is a null offensive player, null physical player, who plays against second-tier opponents and still ends up with a -7 Rel Corsi. Oilers fans are just impressed with him because he looked better than he was due to an unsustainable on-ice save percentage of .940%.

You don't pay those types of players $3.5M.
Shultz has had a long career and has pretty much always looked like what he is...a second pair, shut down defenseman who plays smart positionally and uses his stick rather than his physicality.


Last edited by piqued: 12-24-2012 at 07:11 PM. Reason: unnecessary
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12-23-2012, 11:57 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
There are a couple of huge differences.

First, Kadri has never shown that he can be anything more than a top six forward, or that he has anything more than pure offense to his game. Pajaarvi has shown that he can be a solid two way player as a pro, in the NHL.

Second, Pajaarvi had a very good rookie year. Kadri hasn't been much at the NHL level. At most, you could say Pajaarvi had a horrific sophomore slump. Thats all.

And even if he hadn't made the NHL this year, who cares, one more year in the AHL working on his offense would do nothing but help his career, despite your off the wall claims.
Kadri has 19 points in 51 NHL games for a ppg of 0.37
Pajaarvi has 42 points in 121 NHL games for a ppg of 0.34

Kadri is a -2 in the NHL
Pajaarvi is a -20 in the NHL

Kadri has 42 hits in 51 NHL games
Pajaarvi has 40 hits in 121 NHL games

Kadri's shooting % in the NHL is 10.13%
Pajaarvi's shooting % in the NHL is 6.56%

If Kadri "hasn't been much at the NHL level", Pajaarvi has been even less ...The "couple of huge differences" are that Kadri has played better in the NHL than Pajaarvi has.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating the Oilers ship Pajaarvi out ... His value is probably at an all time low; but lets stick to the facts and not spin "off the wall claims".

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12-24-2012, 12:03 AM
  #41
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Great, you can search the stat lines on NHL.com. Now try watching the games. Your argument isn't worth addressing other than that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caius Merlyn View Post
Kadri has 19 points in 51 NHL games for a ppg of 0.37
Pajaarvi has 42 points in 121 NHL games for a ppg of 0.34

Kadri is a -2 in the NHL
Pajaarvi is a -20 in the NHL

Kadri has 42 hits in 51 NHL games
Pajaarvi has 40 hits in 121 NHL games

Kadri's shooting % in the NHL is 10.13%
Pajaarvi's shooting % in the NHL is 6.56%

If Kadri "hasn't been much at the NHL level", Pajaarvi has been even less ...The "couple of huge differences" are that Kadri has played better in the NHL than Pajaarvi has.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating the Oilers ship Pajaarvi out ... His value is probably at an all time low; but lets stick to the facts and not spin "off the wall claims".

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12-24-2012, 12:04 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
Shultz has had a long career and has pretty much always looked like what he is...a second pair, shut down defenseman who plays smart positionally and uses his stick rather than his physicality.
I'm saying that he's losing his touch.

But whatever, Oilers fans are still high on the 2 months they had of Schultz in essentially meaningless games, so who am I to argue.

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12-24-2012, 12:07 AM
  #43
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Raymond, Ballard, and a 3rd.
had to

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12-24-2012, 12:15 AM
  #44
Caius Merlyn
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
Great, you can search the stat lines on NHL.com. Now try watching the games. Your argument isn't worth addressing other than that.
In any given season I watch a minimum of 30-40 games from each Canadian team.

While stats don't completely reflect play they do a decent job of outlining it.

However if you think that sticking your fingers in your ears and not refuting arguments is the best way to get your point across than be my guest... It certainly doesn't contribute much to a discussion based forum...

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12-24-2012, 12:27 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caius Merlyn View Post
Kadri has 19 points in 51 NHL games for a ppg of 0.37
Pajaarvi has 42 points in 121 NHL games for a ppg of 0.34

Kadri is a -2 in the NHL
Pajaarvi is a -20 in the NHL

Kadri has 42 hits in 51 NHL games
Pajaarvi has 40 hits in 121 NHL games

Kadri's shooting % in the NHL is 10.13%
Pajaarvi's shooting % in the NHL is 6.56%

If Kadri "hasn't been much at the NHL level", Pajaarvi has been even less ...The "couple of huge differences" are that Kadri has played better in the NHL than Pajaarvi has.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating the Oilers ship Pajaarvi out ... His value is probably at an all time low; but lets stick to the facts and not spin "off the wall claims".
Kadri doesn't have the work ethic to make the NHL and most likely end up as a career AHLer. You do have a point that MPS was not that physical when he playing in the NHL, but he didn't play the protected minutes like Kadri was. This year in the AHL something has lit a fire under MPS's butt and he has become a physical force. MPS is a coach's dream with his work ethic and attitude, were Kadri can be a coaches nightmare.


Last edited by piqued: 12-24-2012 at 07:16 PM. Reason: unnecessary
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12-24-2012, 12:42 AM
  #46
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Kadri doesn't have the work ethic to make the NHL and most likely end up as a career AHLer. You do have a point that MPS was not that physical when he playing in the NHL, but he didn't play the protected minutes like Kadri was. This year in the AHL something has lit a fire under MPS's butt and he has become a physical force. MPS is a coach's dream with his work ethic and attitude, were Kadri can be a coaches nightmare.
I haven't watch Pajaarvi this year.

I've watched his NHL games and he has not been more impressive than Kadri.

Both of their values are not on the rise as they are both former 1st round picks that have struggled to break into the league while players from the same draft year have begun to excel in it.

This isn't a knock against just Pajaarvi but Kadri as well. My point which was backed up by stats was that Pajaarvi has been more underwhelming in the NHL than Kadri has.

Think of it this way ... If the lockout ended tomorrow, would any team give up their top ten pick in exchange for Pajaarvi?


Last edited by piqued: 12-24-2012 at 07:16 PM. Reason: qep
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12-24-2012, 12:54 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Nick Schultz is a null offensive player, null physical player, who plays against second-tier opponents and still ends up with a -7 Rel Corsi. Oilers fans are just impressed with him because he looked better than he was due to an unsustainable on-ice save percentage of .940%.

You don't pay those types of players $3.5M.
Now I really do want to trade Schultz to a division rival, with a stipulation that he must always be on the ice at the same time as Eberle. The unsustainable shooting percentage vs the unsustainable save percentage. My guess is the puck implodes, causing the earth to spin on a different axis and propels us into another ice age. And here everyone thought they dodged the end of the world.

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12-24-2012, 01:06 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Caius Merlyn View Post
I haven't watch Pajaarvi this year.

I've watched his NHL games and he has not been more impressive than Kadri.

Both of their values are not on the rise as they are both former 1st round picks that have struggled to break into the league while players from the same draft year have begun to excel in it.

This isn't a knock against just Pajaarvi but Kadri as well. My point which was backed up by stats was that Pajaarvi has been more underwhelming in the NHL than Kadri has.

Think of it this way ... If the lockout ended tomorrow, would any team give up their top ten pick in exchange for Pajaarvi?
You made a statement about Pajaarvi's value now, how could do that without seeing him play this year.

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12-24-2012, 01:55 AM
  #49
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You made a statement about Pajaarvi's value now, how could do that without seeing him play this year.
I saw him when he last played in the NHL, and he wasn't very good... Just like Kadri.

I have seen Kadri play well in the AHL this year however that doesn't increase his value as just like Pajaarvi he was supposed to be a fixture on an NHL roster by this point.

Both of these guys have so far underachieved. That's not to say there is zero chance for them to turn it around and become more valuable, but until they get the chance, and stick in the NHL it will be very hard for them to raise their value.

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12-24-2012, 02:14 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
Now I really do want to trade Schultz to a division rival, with a stipulation that he must always be on the ice at the same time as Eberle. The unsustainable shooting percentage vs the unsustainable save percentage. My guess is the puck implodes, causing the earth to spin on a different axis and propels us into another ice age. And here everyone thought they dodged the end of the world.
My guess is that neither would be sustained, but I've always been an optimist.

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