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Hannu Jortikka's observations during his year in Siberia

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Old
12-23-2012, 11:54 AM
  #51
Siberian
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Originally Posted by Den View Post
France is historical Roman Empire, and Australia - Great Britain.
Dude, you very conveniently dropped "and present Siberia in some usages". Please stop this non-sense. In order to argue you need to define what Siberia is first and then start making claims. Obviously the person who created this page knows more about what he is talking about so let's drop this argument ok?

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12-23-2012, 11:58 AM
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Dude, you very conveniently dropped "and present Siberia in some usages"
Judging by this thread, there are definitely "some" who stick to this "usage"

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12-23-2012, 11:59 AM
  #53
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Judging by this thread, there are definitely "some" who stick to this "usage"
I am tired of fighting this idiocy. Enough for me.

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12-23-2012, 12:01 PM
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Obviously the person who created this page knows more
Why the hell would he? Wiki is written by regular Joes, and apparently other than "some", even most of these joes don't call it Siberia.

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12-23-2012, 12:06 PM
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I am tired of fighting this idiocy. Enough for me.
Beats me, what you are doing here... 90% of Russians do not call the Far East Siberia, but ...nooooooo.. let's defend this pedantic fuss here...

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12-23-2012, 12:07 PM
  #56
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Why the hell would he? Wiki is written by regular Joes, and apparently other than "some", even most of these joes don't call it Siberia.
Because if you wrote a wiki page about Siberia it would be somewhat retarded.

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12-23-2012, 12:13 PM
  #57
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Can't stay civil: get reported to a mod.

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12-23-2012, 12:18 PM
  #58
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Can't stay civil: get reported to a mod.
I'm sorry. Didn't mean to offend you. I only meant your knowledge of Siberia compared to the person who wrote Siberia article on Wiki, who seems to be more than just a regular Joe, all of the research seems to be in place. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia

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12-23-2012, 12:30 PM
  #59
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Come on guys, don't be rude on Jussi, his native country is sofa-sized
Don't. ****. With Finland.



Seems Jortikka should have added lack of sense of humour to his list.

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12-23-2012, 12:36 PM
  #60
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I don't even know if it was Jortikka or the journalists who published this. That wasn't my point. The point is I don't like when the stereotypes take over. "Siberia" is the cliche a lot of foreigners associate with Russia although they don't really know what it is. But overall the whole thing by Jortikka is full of those stereotypical views. I for my part find it hilarious that of all people a finn talks about drinking problems in Russia.
Well the title of the article was "Siberia opettaa" or "Siberia is a learning excperience". Siberia generally is a fairly broad concept here, no one cares it's direct limitations just like no one cares where the hell New Fort Saskatchewanitobaland is in Canada.

Like I said, Jortikka has his own history with public alcohol use(though not in recent years anymore) so those comments were exceptionally humorous to us Finns.


Last edited by Jussi: 12-23-2012 at 12:43 PM.
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12-23-2012, 01:14 PM
  #61
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Classic Jortikka

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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
Like I said, Jortikka has his own history with public alcohol use(though not in recent years anymore) so those comments were exceptionally humorous to us Finns.
One hilarious moment was when Jortikka was at SM-Liiga boat cruise he walked off the ship without shoes... he had lost them somewhere during the night.

And here some fans are offering Jortikka some shoes and he gets pissed off

Fan: "Jortikka here is shoes for the next boat trip"

HJ: "I can afford to buy shoes...I have more money than you and your dad"

Fan: "Really I doubt that"

HJ: "GTFO"




Last edited by Finnpin: 12-23-2012 at 01:20 PM.
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Old
12-23-2012, 03:04 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Faterson View Post
Wow, so few?! I'm sure most Slovak hockey fans would say, off-hand, that there are at least 10 of them in the KHL.
Russia is divided into some historically and politically distinct regions. Although you can claim that beyond the Ural mountains you are in Siberia it's not the perception by a random russian. The South Ural region is it's own entity and a hokey country of it's own. Ufa, Chelyabinsk, Magnitogorsk and Yekatrinburg would fall into category "Ural teams", not siberian teams. Ufa is actually in the european part, but it still leans more towards Ural and it's trans-Ural neighbours.

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12-23-2012, 03:51 PM
  #63
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Is there a golden board, handed to mankind by god the almighty himself, saying that Siberia is this or that? No, it's just human convention what to call Siberia and what not. Now there seem to be different conventions on this matter. In many European countries it is common to say "Siberia" when you mean "Asian part of Russia". In fact, that's what I was taught in geography classes in school: Siberia = Asian part of Russia, divided into 1) West Siberian Plain, 2) Central Siberian Plateau, and 3) the Far East. A rough disposition, but complemented with the most important rivers, cities etc a handy overview.
Now of course Russians and others are entitled to object that their useage of the terms Siberia and Far East is different, but their view is not more right or wrong than the European one - it's just a different convention, and to accuse people in Finland or elsewhere of ignorance because they use the term Siberia in a different way is unfair and wrong.

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12-23-2012, 05:39 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Theokritos View Post
Is there a golden board, handed to mankind by god the almighty himself, saying that Siberia is this or that? No, it's just human convention what to call Siberia and what not. Now there seem to be different conventions on this matter. In many European countries it is common to say "Siberia" when you mean "Asian part of Russia". In fact, that's what I was taught in geography classes in school: Siberia = Asian part of Russia, divided into 1) West Siberian Plain, 2) Central Siberian Plateau, and 3) the Far East. A rough disposition, but complemented with the most important rivers, cities etc a handy overview.
Now of course Russians and others are entitled to object that their useage of the terms Siberia and Far East is different, but their view is not more right or wrong than the European one - it's just a different convention, and to accuse people in Finland or elsewhere of ignorance because they use the term Siberia in a different way is unfair and wrong.
You are absolutely right. It is sad when foreigners know more about some of the things in Russia than the Russians themselves. This is a problem for the generation that was brought up in Soviet times. A lot they learnt in Soviet schools was very twisted that they do not know things outside of what was happening under Soviet times particularly Russian history. Siberia was well defined before the revolution. The area where Khabarovsk was established used to be Eastern Siberian General-Gubernatorstvo since obviously that area was Eastern Siberia. One person even thought that calling Khabarovsk Siberia is somewhat of a cliche. Perhaps this is a huge problem that the Russians don't really know their roots anymore.

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12-23-2012, 07:38 PM
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So if I understood this correctly he is a two-faced Finn that takes the job and doesn't say anything, but when he's let go he starts running his mouth. Pathetic

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12-24-2012, 03:42 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Siberian View Post
You are absolutely right. It is sad when foreigners know more about some of the things in Russia than the Russians themselves. This is a problem for the generation that was brought up in Soviet times. A lot they learnt in Soviet schools was very twisted that they do not know things outside of what was happening under Soviet times particularly Russian history. Siberia was well defined before the revolution. The area where Khabarovsk was established used to be Eastern Siberian General-Gubernatorstvo since obviously that area was Eastern Siberia. One person even thought that calling Khabarovsk Siberia is somewhat of a cliche. Perhaps this is a huge problem that the Russians don't really know their roots anymore.
Sorry, but you are just as wrong as the people accusing other guys of ignorance. Bolded part: Foreigners don't know more about the thing than Russians themselves. There are two different usages of the term Siberia, but neither of the two is wrong or right. Just different.

And BTW just because a term changes its meaning, that doesn't mean people (Russians in this case) don't know their "roots" anymore.

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12-24-2012, 04:29 AM
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Man, some russians here are REALLY defensive LOL.

Majority of the posts are writtten in style "Let's educate this poor, stupid finns and other foreigners about Great Russia, even though they are too stupid to understand".

Too much Zadornov?

To say that Khabarovsk is Siberia is not a big mistake if even a mistake at all. Definately not a big deal.

Quote:
So if I understood this correctly he is a two-faced Finn that takes the job and doesn't say anything, but when he's let go he starts running his mouth. Pathetic
He hasn't said anything THAT bad. Andyes, usually when you work you don't tell much about it to the public. Now what he said in private, we don't know.

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12-24-2012, 04:56 AM
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Originally Posted by yunost View Post
So if I understood this correctly he is a two-faced Finn that takes the job and doesn't say anything, but when he's let go he starts running his mouth. Pathetic
Did you see the guy? Being two-faced is the last thing you can accuse him of

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12-24-2012, 05:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siberian View Post
You are absolutely right. It is sad when foreigners know more about some of the things in Russia than the Russians themselves. This is a problem for the generation that was brought up in Soviet times. A lot they learnt in Soviet schools was very twisted that they do not know things outside of what was happening under Soviet times particularly Russian history. Siberia was well defined before the revolution. The area where Khabarovsk was established used to be Eastern Siberian General-Gubernatorstvo since obviously that area was Eastern Siberia. One person even thought that calling Khabarovsk Siberia is somewhat of a cliche. Perhaps this is a huge problem that the Russians don't really know their roots anymore.
Just because a term was adopted recently doesn't mean it's wrong. It has some serious basis: river drainage basins, lithographic differentiation. I tend to believe it more that a 500 year old map and claims that Far East is Siberia "because it is and you're all ignorant idiots". History wise, Egypt is still ruled by England, right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garl View Post
Majority of the posts are writtten in style "Let's educate this poor, stupid finns and other foreigners about Great Russia, even though they are too stupid to understand".

To say that Khabarovsk is Siberia is not a big mistake if even a mistake at all. Definately not a big deal.
So it's better when a guy from France tries to "enlighten" us?
Nobody makes a big deal (expect Jussi of course), just having a discussion, awaiting for evidence.

Quote:
Fan: "Jortikka here is shoes for the next boat trip"
HJ: "I can afford to buy shoes...I have more money than you and your dad"
Fan: "Really I doubt that"
HJ: "GTFO"
What a great person!

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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
Don't. ****. With Finland.

This is scarier:

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Old
12-24-2012, 06:16 AM
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You should not have gone down that road... Oh, well. You asked for it.


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12-24-2012, 06:57 AM
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You should not have gone down that road... Oh, well. You asked for it.

I'm dying, yeah, duraki i dorogi!

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Old
12-24-2012, 07:12 AM
  #72
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So it's better when a guy from France tries to "enlighten" us?
You do know that Siberian is Russian (at least how I've understood it) even though he lives in France?

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12-24-2012, 07:15 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by SoundAndFury View Post
Did you see the guy? Being two-faced is the last thing you can accuse him of
Indeed. And like the that minister told him try and change the club's ways, considering the language barrier it was an impossible to task. There's no doubt he would liked to remain with the club, despite all the troubles. I was hoping there would be comments from Habarovsk fans here on the subject when I started this thread.

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12-24-2012, 07:33 AM
  #74
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You do know that Siberian is Russian (at least how I've understood it) even though he lives in France?
Maybe, maybe not. I guess he is, judging from his profile data (shashlyk, mmm), which doesn't change the fact that he lives in France.

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Old
12-24-2012, 07:39 AM
  #75
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Let's face it: Siberian just hates the prospect of having to change his HFBoards username to Far-Easterner.

A highlight-reel, beautiful goal might get praise in 2 or 3 forum posts... but when it comes to arguing what is or isn't Siberia, you get a monumental thread with dozens of posts.

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