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Garrioch: Penguins pursuing Gonchar

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Old
12-24-2012, 12:57 AM
  #26
BonkTastic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Zhitnik was almost half a decade younger than Gonchar is now.

Even so, like you say, it was an absolutely brutal trade - and Shero's arguably the best trading GM in the game. There's no way it would happen.
Zhitnik was 3 years younger.

Also: everyone on earth agrees it was a terrible trade.
You asked for a precedent: I gave you one.

If you read my previous posts in this thread, you'd know I agree with you that Despres is a pipe-dream for the Sens.

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12-24-2012, 01:06 AM
  #27
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Zhitnik was 34 years and 4 months when he was dealt. Gonchar would be 38 years and 8 months if he were dealt now. 4 years and change.

I'm glad you agree it's a pipedream.

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Old
12-24-2012, 01:14 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caley View Post
(Contingent on there being a season, obviously) I think you guys are underestimating Gonchar's worth to the Senators. After losing Filip Kuba in the offseason, and Jared Cowen to injury, the Senators blueline is already super-thin (Erik Karlsson-Marc Methot, Chris Phillips-Mike Lundin and then a whole schwack of prospects). For them to give up one of their few remaining Top 4 d-men, a team would have to pay through the nose to get him.

Pittsburgh has a number of good blueline prospects in the system (Morrow, Harrington, Dumoulin, Maatta, Pouliot) to replace Despres on the depth chart, and Despres is the only one of those 6 to have NHL experience that could step right in to Ottawa's Top 4 right now (Ottawa would have to have someone who can step into the Top 4 right now because they're a playoff contender, not rebuilding). Therefore, if the Penguins are missing Gonchar's leadership and want him back, the cost will likely start with Despres.

Paul Martin has no value to the Senators, or any other team, after his play down the stretch last year. He's gonna need a nice stretch of play before anyone's willing to deal for him.

Now, if Ottawa falls out of the playoff race, Gonchar might come available at the deadline for much cheaper. But, if you're talking about Pittsburgh wanting him as soon as the lock-out is over, my guess is it would take Despres to get Ottawa to consider it.
Very good post. Wish some more people would have read it.

Going into this season Ottawa's line up consisted of;

Methot/Karlsson
Cowen/Gonchar
Phillips/Lundin

Not exactly SC calibre. Add to the fact Cowen is down for the season and it becomes weaker.

Ottawa needs Gonchar right now. If there is a season in January and the Pens want him, they will have to pay for him. If they wait till trade deadline, two things could happen. Ottawa could be in the playoff mix in which case they will not move him, or they could be out in which the Pens could get him probably for a third, although I bet GMBM will want a 2nd to replace the one we traded for Bishop.

Like some have said, if there is no season it is a moot point. You can have him as a UFA.

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Old
12-24-2012, 01:17 AM
  #29
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wouldn't priority be getting hockey back first. by the time we get hockey back he might be retired.....

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Old
12-24-2012, 01:23 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobafettish View Post
wouldn't priority be getting hockey back first. by the time we get hockey back he might be retired.....
Wrong thread?

We need Gonchar so we can make the playoffs. If they want him badly, they'll have to pay up. or wait 'till free agency (they get him for free then). If the Sens are sellers, he goes to the highest bidder.

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Old
12-24-2012, 01:50 AM
  #31
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Wouldn't some salary have to go back?

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Old
12-24-2012, 05:47 AM
  #32
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I said it from the get-go; we should have avoided Martin and just re-signed Gonchar when his contract was up. I felt that from day one and will never change my opinion on it.

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Old
12-24-2012, 06:11 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caley View Post
Gonchar for Despres straight up.
This is absolutely delusion. Gonchar has a fat contract and has gone downhill badly. The Pens would give no more and a 2/3 round pick or more likely one of the lower end d prospects, Strait or Bortuzzo, that they are going to have to trade or lose them to waivers, anyway. Bortuzzo/Straight would be a very good return for him. Any Ottawa fan who thinks that they are going to get more is really out of it.

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Old
12-24-2012, 06:15 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Dylonus View Post
I said it from the get-go; we should have avoided Martin and just re-signed Gonchar when his contract was up. I felt that from day one and will never change my opinion on it.
It's hilarious that some who criticizes Martin would want Gonchar, who has played far worse in Ottawa. All this childish whining about Martin is tiresome. You seem to forget that he was very good his first year. He's had one down year and all of a sudden you'd rather have a 38 year old who plays some of the worst d in the NHL? Yeah, Gonchar can help the pp, but the Pens need help keeping the puck out of the net, not scoring more goals.

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Old
12-24-2012, 08:47 AM
  #35
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Shero isn't moving one of his top tier blueline prospects for an end of the road Sarge.

Maybe that is something Murray would be gullible enough to do, but Shero's MO strongly suggests this is as likely to happen as a white Christmas in Vegas.

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Old
12-24-2012, 09:16 AM
  #36
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If im Ottawa they should ask for Kennedy in return considering he seems to score against them every time they play

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12-24-2012, 09:20 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Hurt View Post
I think it's most likely the former and a reach by Garrioch in the first place.
Garrioch is an absolute pain in the ass to read.

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Old
12-24-2012, 09:21 AM
  #38
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I think Wiercioch could replace Gonchar on the 2nd pairing but this is not our biggest problem - it may not be the best solution but Gonchar's time with the Sens is almost over anyway.

We are very thin after Wiercioch, any injury to a defenseman then we would be forced to bring in an AHL D.

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Old
12-24-2012, 09:39 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobafettish View Post
wouldn't priority be getting hockey back first. by the time we get hockey back he might be retired.....
By the time we get hockey back he might be in a nursing home.

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Old
12-24-2012, 09:46 AM
  #40
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Not sure what we would give up, but it wouldn't be much.

lol @ Despres "straight-up"

This might be the deal that gives up TK, especially if Bylsma thinks Bennett might be ready.

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Old
12-24-2012, 09:53 AM
  #41
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Gonchar is really getting under rated in this thread.

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Old
12-24-2012, 09:55 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by limite View Post
This is absolutely delusion. Gonchar has a fat contract and has gone downhill badly. The Pens would give no more and a 2/3 round pick or more likely one of the lower end d prospects, Strait or Bortuzzo, that they are going to have to trade or lose them to waivers, anyway. Bortuzzo/Straight would be a very good return for him. Any Ottawa fan who thinks that they are going to get more is really out of it.
Downhill badly may be a bit of a stretch. He certainly didn't wow anyone in his first year with the Senators, but last year he was incredibly underrated and a very reliable top 4 defenceman for most of the year.

Maybe not all-star form when he was on the Penguins, but then again he wasn't working with Malkin, Crosby, Staal, Letang, etc. Personally, I think the Pens pay a 2nd Round Pick at the trade deadline, which will probably be a late 2nd.

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12-24-2012, 09:58 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
Gonchar is really getting under rated in this thread.
He has been declining steadily for years yet has a significant contract. Not saying Gonch isn't a good player still, but contract/age/declining productivity = low value.

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Old
12-24-2012, 10:02 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manked View Post
Downhill badly may be a bit of a stretch. He certainly didn't wow anyone in his first year with the Senators, but last year he was incredibly underrated and a very reliable top 4 defenceman for most of the year.

Maybe not all-star form when he was on the Penguins, but then again he wasn't working with Malkin, Crosby, Staal, Letang, etc. Personally, I think the Pens pay a 2nd Round Pick at the trade deadline, which will probably be a late 2nd.
And that would be a fair price. Gonchar won't (IMO) get a Depres, or a Morrow, or any of the big 4. Dumoulin is the only "Big" guy I can see, he fits the bill as a late second prospect the Pens can afford to lose. (Not saying Dumoulin hasn't raised his stock since being drafted)

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12-24-2012, 10:03 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PensBandwagonerNo272 View Post
He has been declining steadily for years yet has a significant contract. Not saying Gonch isn't a good player still, but contract/age/declining productivity = low value.
If you watched him since leaving Pittsburgh I'm really confused to why you'd say something like that, because if he was "declining steadily", why was last year a dramatic improvement on his first year with the Senators?

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12-24-2012, 10:05 AM
  #46
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Good Lord I actually have to agree with Pittsburgh fans for once.

Paying a good defensive prospect for a 38 year old who's massively overpaid is foolish.

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12-24-2012, 10:06 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
2/24/2007: Atlanta Thrashers traded Braydon Coburn to the Philadelphia Flyers for Alexei Zhitnik.

I mean, don't get me wrong, that was an absolutely brutal trade... but there is a precedent for it.
Not really. Atlanta was done with Braydon Coburn, Pittsburgh still values Depres highly. It was a horrible trade in retrospect (and seemed like one almost instantly, but nobody ever accused Thrasher management of being good at much, hence, the Winnipeg Jets.

Honestly, I don't see much more than a mid round pick and a decent prospect being the asking price.

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12-24-2012, 10:10 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manked View Post
If you watched him since leaving Pittsburgh I'm really confused to why you'd say something like that, because if he was "declining steadily", why was last year a dramatic improvement on his first year with the Senators?
Having watched him in Pittsburgh for years, and watching his last season there and last two in Ottawa, yes he is definitely declining.

He is not the Gonchar of old, and his value represents that, regardless of whether his 2nd Ottawa season was marginally better than his 1st.

To be honest, I want nothing to do with Gonchar at $5.5 mil, and I think this rumor is pretty much crap because I doubt Shero does either.

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12-24-2012, 10:15 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PensBandwagonerNo272 View Post
He has been declining steadily for years yet has a significant contract. Not saying Gonch isn't a good player still, but contract/age/declining productivity = low value.
37 pts in 74 gp while getting 2nd pairing and 2nd unit PP minutes is not bad.

His cap hit could maybe lower his value but not his age so much. Hes only got 1 year left, its not as if he has 3 years left on a 35+ contract.

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12-24-2012, 10:17 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by PensBandwagonerNo272 View Post
Having watched him in Pittsburgh for years, and watching his last season there and last two in Ottawa, yes he is definitely declining.

He is not the Gonchar of old, and his value represents that, regardless of whether his 2nd Ottawa season was marginally better than his 1st.

To be honest, I want nothing to do with Gonchar at $5.5 mil, and I think this rumor is pretty much crap because I doubt Shero does either.
Shero's the guy who gave Martin $5M a year right?

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