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Old
12-23-2012, 11:57 AM
  #401
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Spott can spout what he wants, but if you watched the games it was spent shaking your head at the play of the Canadians.

I heard the whinging after the first game and expected to see phantom calls being made, but when they played a video clip of the infractions it was clear they were infractions. Even the Canadian announcers were saying for the most part the calls were legit.

Too many press clippings about how this Canadian team is going to rank up there with the last lock-out team.

Put the work boots on boys and do it on the ice and Spott you may be trying to circle the wagons, but all the talk isn't going to eliminate your responsibility of getting the team prepared.
Agreed. Not all the calls may have been called in NA but to call them phantom calls is inaccurate. They weren't calling cross checks out of no where, they were there, just stuff that they may not be used to being called.

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12-23-2012, 12:00 PM
  #402
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Spott can spout what he wants, but if you watched the games it was spent shaking your head at the play of the Canadians.

I heard the whinging after the first game and expected to see phantom calls being made, but when they played a video clip of the infractions it was clear they were infractions. Even the Canadian announcers were saying for the most part the calls were legit.

Too many press clippings about how this Canadian team is going to rank up there with the last lock-out team.

Put the work boots on boys and do it on the ice and Spott you may be trying to circle the wagons, but all the talk isn't going to eliminate your responsibility of getting the team prepared.
If Spott were smart he would tell the guys to take a page from the Finns, they got a lot of calls that went their way.

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12-23-2012, 12:02 PM
  #403
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Too many pansies on this Canadian team.

Not what I expect from Canada.

Surplus offensive defencemen and fairies playing forward.

Think Devante Smith Pelley then add like three of him. THats what Canada needs.

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12-23-2012, 12:16 PM
  #404
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Too many pansies on this Canadian team.

Not what I expect from Canada.

Surplus offensive defencemen and fairies playing forward.

Think Devante Smith Pelley then add like three of him. THats what Canada needs.
I originally wanted Tom Wilson on this team, for an energy role. But he would probably get a penalty everytime he hit some opposing Euro legally. If only we knew we were playing the Americans for gold, bet they don't call squat with either team playing physical, this is why I hate the euro game, you are correct, pansey hockey over there and they didn't even invent the game.

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12-23-2012, 12:23 PM
  #405
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Too many pansies on this Canadian team.

Not what I expect from Canada.

Surplus offensive defencemen and fairies playing forward.

Think Devante Smith Pelley then add like three of him. THats what Canada needs.
Totally, look how Boone Jenner turned out.

Guess what, we haven't won in a few years with some teams that had plenty of tough forwards. We were beat by teams that had an abundance of skill.

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12-23-2012, 12:26 PM
  #406
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Originally Posted by leugangen View Post
Totally, look how Boone Jenner turned out.

Guess what, we haven't won in a few years with some teams that had plenty of tough forwards. We were beat by teams that had an abundance of skill.
You always need the right mix of skill and grit. Role players play a huge role but it is moot if there is no skill behind that tenacity

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12-23-2012, 12:29 PM
  #407
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You always need the right mix of skill and grit. Role players play a huge role but it is moot if there is no skill behind that tenacity
I agree completely, but the idea that adding Tom Wilson would somehow fix the team (a team that has only played two exhibition games against players playing their hearts out trying to make their respective teams), makes no sense, given the types of penalties the refs are calling.

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12-23-2012, 12:30 PM
  #408
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Originally Posted by leugangen View Post
Totally, look how Boone Jenner turned out.

Guess what, we haven't won in a few years with some teams that had plenty of tough forwards. We were beat by teams that had an abundance of skill.
Canada's adept at playing either way, we can beat you with skill and grit, this is the strength of Canadian hockey. I hate it when people think Canadians have no skill, we just have more variety of players to choose from. The game goes in cycles, but as long as I could remember going back to the Dave King days, Canada always had a physical edge on their opponents, and given our record at the Worlds I wouldn't change a thing about our game.

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12-23-2012, 12:31 PM
  #409
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Totally, look how Boone Jenner turned out.

Guess what, we haven't won in a few years with some teams that had plenty of tough forwards. We were beat by teams that had an abundance of skill.
Canada hasn't had tough forwards in a while now. Last year sucked. Devante was out and he was like half the physicality.

This year is worse in that they loaded up with offensive defencemen and pansy forwards, in my opinion.

Tom Wilson would have been a good choice. Mark McNeill right off the bat too is a good choice. Colton Sissons. Frank Corrado. The list is endless.

The coach is an idiot.

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12-23-2012, 12:41 PM
  #410
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Did only Canada, USA, Sweden and Finland play pre-tourny games? If yes, why is that?

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12-23-2012, 04:31 PM
  #411
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Not according to Spott, officiating is bad over there. This hit was a finishing of a check, it was a half second late. It's an interference penalty in any sane league or no penalty if the kid gets up. Jenner is not a goon, he is a good, skilled player that plays hard. Don't crucify the kid for playing hard, not a dirty hit like Clarkson's on Kaberle as some are trying to paint it as. He was very apologetic to the Swedish kid for being hurt, but that's hockey. You are taught not to admire your passes from an early age, obviously the swede is not used to playing a physical game that Canada can play.
You don't think the coach is pretty much obligated to back his guy?

The hit was about a full second late. Bobby Mac said so, and the announcers also called it late.

The officials were calling a game. Canada played sloppy and lazy, and the hit by Jenner is one that HE KNEW was late. He's been playing a long time, he knew better. End of story.

The kid got hurt because a) he admired his pass, and b) he probably felt fairly safe, knowing the rules of the game. It was wrong of him to assume safety, but the hit was high, and it was late.

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12-23-2012, 05:04 PM
  #412
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Originally Posted by JMcLeaf View Post
Did only Canada, USA, Sweden and Finland play pre-tourny games? If yes, why is that?
I was wondering the same thing, I don't remember hearing about the pre-tourney games in the past and I noticed as well that the only games TSN had involved the same 4 teams. I wasn't sure if it was because TSN was only going to show Canada/USA games and they both happened to play the same 2 teams, or if it was because only those 4 teams were doing it. I too want to know.

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12-23-2012, 05:26 PM
  #413
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Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
You don't think the coach is pretty much obligated to back his guy?

The hit was about a full second late. Bobby Mac said so, and the announcers also called it late.

The officials were calling a game. Canada played sloppy and lazy, and the hit by Jenner is one that HE KNEW was late. He's been playing a long time, he knew better. End of story.

The kid got hurt because a) he admired his pass, and b) he probably felt fairly safe, knowing the rules of the game. It was wrong of him to assume safety, but the hit was high, and it was late.
30 frames late actually which is roughly half a second, just look at your watch to see how quick that went by.

It was not a blantant late hit like Clarkson's, that one was a full second late. Not comparable, you need to watch both plays to see the difference. Not comparable.

As for Spott, it was the first right thing he did this tournament, but if you think a coach shouldn't back his guy, look at his reaction on the bench. I don't think he was going to the coaching playbook. Some of the calls by the refs were borderline at best, it's a reason why I hate European reffed games, not in the same league of the NHL standard.

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12-23-2012, 05:43 PM
  #414
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Canada hasn't had tough forwards in a while now. Last year sucked. Devante was out and he was like half the physicality.

This year is worse in that they loaded up with offensive defencemen and pansy forwards, in my opinion.

Tom Wilson would have been a good choice. Mark McNeill right off the bat too is a good choice. Colton Sissons. Frank Corrado. The list is endless.

The coach is an idiot.
Spot is a little slow...I dont understand why he hasnt called on Wilson or Monahan to replace Jenner (just in case)...i dont understand? Is spot .... slllloooowwwwww ???? is he only shortsighted ???

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12-23-2012, 06:23 PM
  #415
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30 frames late actually which is roughly half a second, just look at your watch to see how quick that went by.

It was not a blantant late hit like Clarkson's, that one was a full second late. Not comparable, you need to watch both plays to see the difference. Not comparable.

As for Spott, it was the first right thing he did this tournament, but if you think a coach shouldn't back his guy, look at his reaction on the bench. I don't think he was going to the coaching playbook. Some of the calls by the refs were borderline at best, it's a reason why I hate European reffed games, not in the same league of the NHL standard.
It was blatant. TSN analysts said so, lots of hockey-watching enthusiasts on this board said so, and common sense says so.

Did he intend to do that much damage, certainly not, but he saw a probe player and hammered him. What do you expect?

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12-24-2012, 12:56 AM
  #416
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Canada hasn't had tough forwards in a while now. Last year sucked. Devante was out and he was like half the physicality.

This year is worse in that they loaded up with offensive defencemen and pansy forwards, in my opinion.

Tom Wilson would have been a good choice. Mark McNeill right off the bat too is a good choice. Colton Sissons. Frank Corrado. The list is endless.

The coach is an idiot.
Last year's team just wasn't that great looking back.

But 2011 had a bunch of tougher, bigger players (Kassian, Foligno, Gudbranson, Couturier, Ashton) and still lost to Russia.

I actually think the structure of the team this year is fantastic. Our bottom six is strong and fast. They may not be six grinders and power forwards, but they should do the job. The only way I would have been ok with Wilson is if he was on the 4th line and getting an occasional shift. But the way penalties are being called, I don't know.

So far I can only blame the coaching and discipline. Hopefully they fix both. This team should be able to score goals in bunches.

SIdenote - I am really liking Finland's lineup this year. I expect to see them in the top 3.

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12-24-2012, 08:10 AM
  #417
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Idk if this has been posted but both Tyler Biggs and Garret Sparks have made the USA World Junior team. I'm really happy for both considering Biggs was snubbed last year and Sparks has just had so many doubters.

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12-24-2012, 08:39 AM
  #418
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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle6688248/

For Canada:

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Watch for: Morgan Rielly (Maple Leafs)

Prediction: silver
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Watch for: Nail Yakupov (Oilers)

Prediction: gold

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12-24-2012, 09:13 AM
  #419
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Too many pansies on this Canadian team.

Not what I expect from Canada.

Surplus offensive defencemen and fairies playing forward.

Think Devante Smith Pelley then add like three of him. THats what Canada needs.
Right? I don't know about you, but I think we should be allowed to ice a team of silverback gorillas. They wouldn't be a bunch of sissy girly girls because they don't even know how to stick handle, so none of that dekey fairy play.

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12-24-2012, 09:16 AM
  #420
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I think Tobias Reider for germany is injured though.

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12-24-2012, 09:32 AM
  #421
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Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
It was blatant. TSN analysts said so, lots of hockey-watching enthusiasts on this board said so, and common sense says so.

Did he intend to do that much damage, certainly not, but he saw a probe player and hammered him. What do you expect?
I disagree, had that been a Canadian player hit by say a Swedish player, there is no suspension and maybe it's a 2 min penalty tops. Double standard in Europe, the Canadians are always the big, bad, dirty team when in reality we have going back to the Sherry Bassin days, been clean and disciplined. Action penalties rather than reaction penalties was the motto.

Regardless I doubt this will change your mind but here is what Jenner and Spott said, I'm starting to like Spott again:

Quote:
"It happened pretty fast," Jenner said after Canada's 2-1 shootout win. "I was just in on the forecheck, forechecking hard, just trying to finish my check and thought I made sure my arm and my shoulder were down so I thought it was a clean hit."

It's possible Jenner, one of six returning players on the Canadian roster, will face supplemental discipline from the IIHF.

"That's kind of out of my control now," said Jenner, a Columbus Blue Jackets prospect, who plays for the OHL's Oshawa Generals. "Like I said, I thought it was a clean hit."

Canadian head coach Steve Spott certainly doesn't think his third-line centre should face further sanctions.

"Boone is an aggressive player, he was in hard on the forecheck, he made contact shoulder to shoulder," said Spott. "You can argue that it was late, the puck wasn't there, [so it could have been called] interference, maybe a charge, but ultimately, in our mind, in my mind specifically, there shouldn't be any extra punishment."

"We thought it was pretty good hit," said Canadian centre Ryan Strome. "That's what he brings to the table. We saw him hit like that last year and he's going to put his heart on the line for the team and when he's in the lineup we're a better team so we hope he's around."

Spott believes the call on Jenner was the most blatant example of what was a series of bad calls by referees Jari-Pekka Pajula and Anssi Salonen, who work in the Finnish Elite League.

"We know the standards are different over here," said Spott, also the head coach and general manager of the OHL's Kitchener Rangers. "Our players are prepared, but ultimately, in the first two games, I think, as a hockey person, not as Team Canada's head coach, as a hockey person, I don't think anyone can argue that the level of officiating in the first two games for all the teams has not been at the level that we're probably used to and should expect."

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12-24-2012, 09:38 AM
  #422
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Right? I don't know about you, but I think we should be allowed to ice a team of silverback gorillas. They wouldn't be a bunch of sissy girly girls because they don't even know how to stick handle, so none of that dekey fairy play.
Exactly.

We need some brute animalistic force on this team. The kind that Devante had last year before his foot got sniped.

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12-24-2012, 10:04 AM
  #423
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I disagree, had that been a Canadian player hit by say a Swedish player, there is no suspension and maybe it's a 2 min penalty tops. Double standard in Europe, the Canadians are always the big, bad, dirty team when in reality we have going back to the Sherry Bassin days, been clean and disciplined. Action penalties rather than reaction penalties was the motto.

Regardless I doubt this will change your mind but here is what Jenner and Spott said, I'm starting to like Spott again:
Canadians sound like they're already making excuses for coming up short.

Can see it now, couldn't win because it wasn't in Canada with Canadian officials.

Spott accepts that the hit was late. Therefore accepts it was a penalty.

56.4 Major Penalty - The Referee, at his discretion, may assess a major penalty, based on the degree of violence, to a player guilty of interfering with an opponent (see 56.5).

56.5 Game Misconduct Penalty When a major penalty is imposed under this rule for a foul resulting in an injury of an opponent, a game misconduct shall be imposed.

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12-24-2012, 10:15 AM
  #424
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Canadians sound like they're already making excuses for coming up short.

Can see it now, couldn't win because it wasn't in Canada with Canadian officials.

Spott accepts that the hit was late. Therefore accepts it was a penalty.

56.4 Major Penalty - The Referee, at his discretion, may assess a major penalty, based on the degree of violence, to a player guilty of interfering with an opponent (see 56.5).

56.5 Game Misconduct Penalty When a major penalty is imposed under this rule for a foul resulting in an injury of an opponent, a game misconduct shall be imposed.
Are you Canadian? Man you are hard on this team. A late hit by a half second, shoulder to shoulder/chest is not suspendable. It wasn't from behind and it wasn't a blantant hit to injure. Is this just a Canadian thing? If that had been a Swede that hit a Canadian I am sure Spott or Canada wouldn't be calling for a suspension, NOT unless Jenner is suspended already and the precedent has been set already.

An interference penalty is not suspendable IMO, intent to injure is, it would be hard to make a case Jenner's intent was to injure the Swedish player. Shoulder to Shoulder a half sec late?

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12-24-2012, 10:27 AM
  #425
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Are you Canadian? Man you are hard on this team. A late hit by a half second, shoulder to shoulder/chest is not suspendable. It wasn't from behind and it wasn't a blantant hit to injure. Is this just a Canadian thing? If that had been a Swede that hit a Canadian I am sure Spott or Canada wouldn't be calling for a suspension, NOT unless Jenner is suspended already and the precedent has been set already.

An interference penalty is not suspendable IMO, intent to injure is, it would be hard to make a case Jenner's intent was to injure the Swedish player. Shoulder to Shoulder a half sec late?
What my opinion or your opinion has to do with the rules is irrelevant.

If it was an infraction, and even Spott says it might have been late and been an interference penalty (which according to NHL rules can result in a game suspension - while this is not the NHL we know IIHF is tougher on injuries) when you commit a foul and it causes injury you are at the mercy of the IIHF.

The same rule would apply to anyone from any country.

Canadians don't need to make excuses just have to be prepared and play the games within the same rules as everyone else. There is nothing new happening here.

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