HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Ovi can't even light up the KHL, can we finally admit that he's past his prime?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-02-2012, 10:06 PM
  #576
od71
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 785
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AD1066 View Post
I've seen Malkin get taken off his game plenty of times. Now that he can actually speak the same language as the refs, I don't find it hard to believe that he would occasionally mouth off.

Not to the tune of 40 PIM though.
Yes, it doesn't make him look better. Now Malkin has an undisputable authority in Russia as a hockey player #1 in the world by far. And I think it's possible, that MMg management told him to press refs using his authority. As far as I know Malkin, he is not quarrelsome person.

od71 is online now  
Old
12-03-2012, 04:34 AM
  #577
fedfed
Moderator
@FedFedRMNB
 
fedfed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Moscow City
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 3,639
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by octopi View Post
What, Malkin is mouthing off to the refs more than Ovi? What alternate universe is this? Do cats chase dogs and hamburgers eat people?
Haven't seen Ovi focused on making plays and get those Ws in awhile.

fedfed is offline  
Old
12-03-2012, 04:48 AM
  #578
fedfed
Moderator
@FedFedRMNB
 
fedfed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Moscow City
Country: Russian Federation
Posts: 3,639
vCash: 500
Breakdown of Malkin's PIM:
Roughing: 2 mins * 3
Kneeing: 2 mins + 10 mins
Delay of game: 2 mins
Slashing: 2 mins
Cross-checking: 2 mins * 2 (not sure if in-game situation or between the whistles stuff)
High-sticking: 2 mins
Hooking: 2 mins
Unsportsmanlike conduct (watched that game, he argued with the refs after his teammate got called for something): 10 mins
Interference: 2 mins
Tripping: 2 mins
I think he just thinks too much of himself, while Ovi is just doing his job.

fedfed is offline  
Old
12-03-2012, 07:14 AM
  #579
Kimota
Nation of Poutine
 
Kimota's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: La Vieille Capitale
Country: France
Posts: 21,948
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSniper26 View Post
I'm a Pens fan and even I'm rooting for Ovechkin to find his form again. I want great players to be great. It's good for the game and makes the league more enjoyable to follow.
I agree, it was so much fun seeing the Pens and Caps going at it a few years ago with AO and Sid fighting for NHL supremacy. Those games were special with people wondering who's the best between the two and so forth. Strangely, it sort of all came crashing down when they faced at the Winter Classic in a way.

Kimota is offline  
Old
12-03-2012, 07:36 AM
  #580
CHGoalie27
GWAAARRRRRRR
 
CHGoalie27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SoFLA
Country: United States
Posts: 6,609
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by livewell68 View Post
That's like saying 93 Pts (1.14 PPG over 82 games) is roughly the same as 104 Pts (1.27 PPG over 82 games).
I agree...
When I see Gaborik score 5 in one game and none over the previous or next 8 to 10...pretty useless stat when it makes it look like he scores more often than he does.

CHGoalie27 is online now  
Old
12-03-2012, 08:53 AM
  #581
irunthepeg
THE ONE WHO KNOCKS
 
irunthepeg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: The Peg, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,416
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
I agree, it was so much fun seeing the Pens and Caps going at it a few years ago with AO and Sid fighting for NHL supremacy. Those games were special with people wondering who's the best between the two and so forth. Strangely, it sort of all came crashing down when they faced at the Winter Classic in a way.
I still remember watching that game. I was cheering for the Pens (overall, I just like Sid more than Ovy) and I remember the hit and a lot of my friends who were cheering against the Pens were like "what a baby, get up" and I remember saying to one of my friends, who is a big Pens fan, "that was not a good hit, something bad just happened."

I also wish Ovy would go back to being in full competition with Sid for best in the world. So weird that it was only a few years ago... feels like forever ago.

irunthepeg is offline  
Old
12-23-2012, 01:48 AM
  #582
Kshahdoo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 2,966
vCash: 500
10+11 in the last 13 games... It doesn't look that bad.

Kshahdoo is offline  
Old
12-23-2012, 07:13 AM
  #583
Fire Dumboer
Registered User
 
Fire Dumboer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 6,597
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kshahdoo View Post
10+11 in the last 13 games... It doesn't look that bad.
That was once Backstrom came in right? Not trying to bash him because Kovalchuk has Tarasenko and Malkin has Mozyakin.

Fire Dumboer is offline  
Old
12-23-2012, 07:19 AM
  #584
Vikke
FHM 13 researcher
 
Vikke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bustoville
Country: Sweden
Posts: 12,997
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by iiTzLaMia View Post
That was once Backstrom came in right? Not trying to bash him because Kovalchuk has Tarasenko and Malkin has Mozyakin.
Bäckström's played 18 games.

Vikke is online now  
Old
12-23-2012, 07:47 AM
  #585
Kshahdoo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 2,966
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by iiTzLaMia View Post
That was once Backstrom came in right? Not trying to bash him because Kovalchuk has Tarasenko and Malkin has Mozyakin.
Backs has 10+14 after 18 games and 9+12 in same 13 games. So yeah, you can say they're doing great together. But you can't say it's all about one of them. They help each other.


Last edited by Kshahdoo: 12-23-2012 at 07:54 AM.
Kshahdoo is offline  
Old
12-23-2012, 01:35 PM
  #586
LAX attack*
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Danger Zone
Country: United States
Posts: 14,543
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to LAX attack*
Everything about this thread is ugly. Best thread title since ottawa senators were too good for the nhl

LAX attack* is offline  
Old
12-23-2012, 07:22 PM
  #587
FlyingKostitsyn
Registered User
 
FlyingKostitsyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Quebec
Country: Australia
Posts: 8,052
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by porknbeans1000 View Post
Everything about this thread is ugly. Best thread title since ottawa senators were too good for the nhl
I think I remember this one. It probably jinxed the Sens for the rest of eternity.

FlyingKostitsyn is offline  
Old
12-23-2012, 07:40 PM
  #588
I Am Score*
---BradD---
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Country: United States
Posts: 1,666
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
I think I remember this one. It probably jinxed the Sens for the rest of eternity.
Weren't they already jinxed for eternity?

Anyways, I didn't read all of this thread but the first post was pretty funny. Radulov has better stats than Malkin and Ovechkin, does that mean he's better too?

Backstrom is a very underrated player to be honest with you. One of the best passers in the league. The problem doesn't rest on Ovechkin but with the coaching in Washington. They tend to want Ovechkin to not go all out and play more defensively. The whole scheme they trapped him in has really hurt his mindset. He doesn't really check as he used to anymore either.

I Am Score* is offline  
Old
12-23-2012, 07:45 PM
  #589
WasTeD
Gettn Wiggy wit it
 
WasTeD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: in your head
Country: Equatorial Guinea
Posts: 14,480
vCash: 500
Send a message via Skype™ to WasTeD
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
I think I remember this one. It probably jinxed the Sens for the rest of eternity.
Sens > NHL.

good times.

WasTeD is online now  
Old
12-23-2012, 09:15 PM
  #590
HockeyThoughts
Delivering The Truth
 
HockeyThoughts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,434
vCash: 500
I was bored..So here's some KHL scoring and stats..

Top Scoring:
1 Mozyakin Sergei MMG 34gp-21G-53pts +12 4PIM 19:46TOI
2 Malkin Evgeny MMG 32gp-17G-49pts +13 52PIM 22:23TOI
3 Radulov Alexander CSK 34gp-17G-44pts +9 72PIM 23:27TOI
4 Ovechkin Alexander DYN 27gp-16G-35pts +12 6PIM 19:09TOI
5 Kovalchuk Ilya SKA 29gp-14G-35pts +18 10PIM 19:32TOI

Other notables:
9 Kuznetsov Evgeni 35gp-16G-32pt +3 24PIM 20:23TOI
12 Datsyuk Pavel CSKA 27GP-9G-32pt +11 4PIM 20:31TOI
18 Tarasenko Vladimir SKA 26gp-13G-29pt +15 8PIM 14:30TOI
19 Zherdev Nikolai 33gp-13G-29pt -5 16PIM 19:34TOI
21 Frolov Alexander 32gp-9G-29pt +16 8PIM 17:30TOI
22 Kulemin Nikolai MMG 31gp-13G-27pt +17 16PIM 19:19

GWG:
3 Radulov with 5
5 Ovechkin, Kulemin, Ansimov, Zherdev with 4
15 Kovalchuk Backstrom (only 18gp!) with 3

Notes:
Malkin on a 44G-125pt pace
Radulov on 41G-106pt
Ovechkin on 49G-106pt
Kolvachuk on 40G-99pt

Nicklas Backstrom
18gp-10G-25pts +9 10PIM
46G-114pt pace.. beast!

Gonchar is 3rd in defense scoring 24pts in 32gp playing on MMG
Hedman is 9th 20pts in 26gp
Visnovsky is 22nd with 14pts in 27gp
Chara has 4G-9pts 24PIM in 22gp doesn't sound like hes enjoying the big ice

Varmalov has a 14-8-2 3SO record with a sparkling .952SV% and 1.53GAA
Bobrovsky has 19-14-2 1SO .922SV% 2.21GAA

HockeyThoughts is online now  
Old
12-24-2012, 08:47 AM
  #591
Brave Sir Robin
Registered User
 
Brave Sir Robin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 905
vCash: 500
There are a couple stats people tend to overlook when talking about Ovi's decline. During all his 100pt seasons Ovechkin got 22-23+TOI/g. Last season he got 19:47TOI/g. A decline from 23 to 20TOI/g amounts to a decline of 13%. That means that if theoretically Ovi was still a 50-50-100pt player at 23TOI/g, simple math will tell you that he would be a 43.5-43.5-87pt player at 20TOI/g. Right now he gets only 19:09TOI/g at Dynamo.

Another big aspect of his production is the sheer amount of shots he takes. Ovi has never scored 50 goals in a season where he took less than 368 shots. His best season S% 14.6%, while his career average is only 12.0%. At 14.6% he needs at least 343 shots to score 50, while at his average 12% he needs 417 shots. He only had 303 last season.

To summarize, regardless of whether Ovi has significantly declined, don't expect his stats to return to anywhere near their previous levels unless Oates gives him more TOI and more freedom to shoot.


Last edited by Brave Sir Robin: 12-24-2012 at 08:58 AM.
Brave Sir Robin is offline  
Old
12-24-2012, 09:07 AM
  #592
limite*
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 76
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by livewell68 View Post
Ovechkin's PPG is 1.14 while Malkin's is 1.27.

That's not "roughly the same points per game".
Yes it is. That's a difference of about 1 point every 8 games. That is not a significant difference in scoring.

limite* is offline  
Old
12-24-2012, 10:14 AM
  #593
Sky04
Registered User
 
Sky04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,822
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave Sir Robin View Post
There are a couple stats people tend to overlook when talking about Ovi's decline. During all his 100pt seasons Ovechkin got 22-23+TOI/g. Last season he got 19:47TOI/g. A decline from 23 to 20TOI/g amounts to a decline of 13%. That means that if theoretically Ovi was still a 50-50-100pt player at 23TOI/g, simple math will tell you that he would be a 43.5-43.5-87pt player at 20TOI/g. Right now he gets only 19:09TOI/g at Dynamo.

Another big aspect of his production is the sheer amount of shots he takes. Ovi has never scored 50 goals in a season where he took less than 368 shots. His best season S% 14.6%, while his career average is only 12.0%. At 14.6% he needs at least 343 shots to score 50, while at his average 12% he needs 417 shots. He only had 303 last season.

To summarize, regardless of whether Ovi has significantly declined, don't expect his stats to return to anywhere near their previous levels unless Oates gives him more TOI and more freedom to shoot.
Freedom to shoot is up to him, can't just say he could've gotten more goals if he just had more shots. As far a TOI goes, Backstrom was injured most of the season and Semin was having an off year, the only reason Ovy didn't get as much ice team was because he wasn't doing anything useful with those extra minutes he was getting early on anyways. Ice time is earned, even for the big names.

Play the "what if" card all you want, Ovy was not even close to the same player last season than he was in his big years. He looks alot better now, so I'd expect his stats to start going up again once theres a season.

Sky04 is online now  
Old
12-24-2012, 10:49 AM
  #594
livewell68
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,912
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by limite View Post
Yes it is. That's a difference of about 1 point every 8 games. That is not a significant difference in scoring.
Check the PPG for each player now.

Ovechkin has 1.29 PPG.

Malkin has 1.53 PPG.

Over 82 games that's 106 Pts for Ovechkin and 125 Pts for Malkin. Big difference there.

livewell68 is offline  
Old
12-24-2012, 11:42 AM
  #595
InjuredChoker
Registered User
 
InjuredChoker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: LTIR or golf course
Posts: 18,611
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by livewell68 View Post
Check the PPG for each player now.

Ovechkin has 1.29 PPG.

Malkin has 1.53 PPG.

Over 82 games that's 106 Pts for Ovechkin and 125 Pts for Malkin. Big difference there.
Malkin has been tearing it apart this month.

InjuredChoker is offline  
Old
12-24-2012, 11:57 AM
  #596
limite*
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 76
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave Sir Robin View Post
There are a couple stats people tend to overlook when talking about Ovi's decline. During all his 100pt seasons Ovechkin got 22-23+TOI/g. Last season he got 19:47TOI/g. A decline from 23 to 20TOI/g amounts to a decline of 13%. That means that if theoretically Ovi was still a 50-50-100pt player at 23TOI/g, simple math will tell you that he would be a 43.5-43.5-87pt player at 20TOI/g. Right now he gets only 19:09TOI/g at Dynamo.

Another big aspect of his production is the sheer amount of shots he takes. Ovi has never scored 50 goals in a season where he took less than 368 shots. His best season S% 14.6%, while his career average is only 12.0%. At 14.6% he needs at least 343 shots to score 50, while at his average 12% he needs 417 shots. He only had 303 last season.

To summarize, regardless of whether Ovi has significantly declined, don't expect his stats to return to anywhere near their previous levels unless Oates gives him more TOI and more freedom to shoot.
You analysis doesn't work because not all time is equal. Ovechkin might have less es time but the same pp time. Since a large percentage of goals are scored on the pp, loss of es time has less effect on scoring. To do the analysis right, you would have to figure toi separately for es for pp.

limite* is offline  
Old
12-24-2012, 12:20 PM
  #597
Brave Sir Robin
Registered User
 
Brave Sir Robin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 905
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by limite View Post
You analysis doesn't work because not all time is equal. Ovechkin might have less es time but the same pp time. Since a large percentage of goals are scored on the pp, loss of es time has less effect on scoring. To do the analysis right, you would have to figure toi separately for es for pp.
You're right, the drop in production wouldn't be as drastic. Still, I think that even if Ovi rebounds, he would need ~22minTOI/g to be a 50 goal scorer.

Brave Sir Robin is offline  
Old
12-24-2012, 12:24 PM
  #598
jw2
Registered User
 
jw2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 2,587
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by livewell68 View Post
Check the PPG for each player now.

Ovechkin has 1.29 PPG.

Malkin has 1.53 PPG.

Over 82 games that's 106 Pts for Ovechkin and 125 Pts for Malkin. Big difference there.
I havent been paying attention, but is Malkin still registering 5 points in 8-1 wins?

jw2 is offline  
Old
12-24-2012, 12:26 PM
  #599
livewell68
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,912
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jw2 View Post
I havent been paying attention, but is Malkin still registering 5 points in 8-1 wins?
You mean when Crosby won the Art Ross in 2006-07, he wasn't registering 6 Pts in 9-0 wins?

Ovechkin wasn't trying to get a hattrick when his team was up 5-1 in the 3rd period in 2007-08?

livewell68 is offline  
Old
12-24-2012, 12:28 PM
  #600
jw2
Registered User
 
jw2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 2,587
vCash: 500
So... "Yes".

Thanks.

jw2 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:44 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.