HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Fleury to Chicago

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-24-2012, 12:34 PM
  #51
Crymson
Fire Holland
 
Crymson's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,293
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Chreider View Post
Pens get:

Crawford
Sharp
Saad

Hawks get:

Fleury
Kennedy
Jeffrey
After Fleury's horrific series against the Flyers---one that will go down as one of the worst series ever played by a goaltender---he's not even worth Crawford.

Crymson is offline  
Old
12-24-2012, 12:40 PM
  #52
MISC*
Negged.
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,691
vCash: 500
Pens:

Luongo

Hawks:

Fluery


Canucks:

Sharp

MISC* is offline  
Old
12-24-2012, 01:07 PM
  #53
Mike Farkas
Hockey's Future Staff
Moron!
 
Mike Farkas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 5,040
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
After Fleury's horrific series against the Flyers---one that will go down as one of the worst series ever played by a goaltender---he's not even worth Crawford.
So, by extension, after back-to-back Finalist seasons (including a Cup win in 2009), he was worth more than Lundqvist, Rinne, Price, etc., correct?

Mike Farkas is offline  
Old
12-24-2012, 02:10 PM
  #54
jayball75
Registered User
 
jayball75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 369
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnybaby View Post
Vokoun was poor last season, apparently. Yet even in a "bad" season he had a better save percentage than Fleury. Outside of the 07/08 season, Vokoun has produced better #'s than Fleury every season since Fleury entered the league.

No, obviously Vokoun/Scrivens isn't a comparable tandem. But, it's much cheaper and the statistically better goalie is still with the Penguins. The penguins downgrade in net to find Sid a long-term winger in my proposal.
I guess you have to pick your poison whether its goaltending or having a sniper for Crosby to play with. My other concern is Vokoun's health and the fact he's signed short term. So when he's injured or not in Pittsburgh who's the better option to have 1. Sniper to play with Sid or 2. Keep fluery who's a true #1 goalie?

jayball75 is offline  
Old
12-24-2012, 02:14 PM
  #55
jayball75
Registered User
 
jayball75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 369
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
After Fleury's horrific series against the Flyers---one that will go down as one of the worst series ever played by a goaltender---he's not even worth Crawford.
By the evidence shown in your avatar I'd say you just don't like fluery because he stole a chance for a second straight cup from Detroit. And that having osgood as your goalie would eventually show through as the teams only weakness.

jayball75 is offline  
Old
12-24-2012, 03:33 PM
  #56
Sevanston
Moderator
 
Sevanston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NYC
Posts: 10,661
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MISC View Post
Pens:

Luongo

Hawks:

Fluery


Canucks:

Sharp
Noooooope.

Sevanston is offline  
Old
12-24-2012, 03:46 PM
  #57
Crymson
Fire Holland
 
Crymson's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,293
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Hockey View Post
Last year MAF played great. The Pens Dee hung him out to dry in the playoffs. I'm not saying that MAF didn't let a bad goal or two. But, the dee was the problem, not MAF.

They should hire Dave Burrows as a coach, to teach them how it's done right.
Is this a joke? Fleury was atrocious. You might as well say that the Avs' defense left Theodore out to dry against the Wings in 2008. It would be just as untrue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayball75 View Post
By the evidence shown in your avatar I'd say you just don't like fluery because he stole a chance for a second straight cup from Detroit. And that having osgood as your goalie would eventually show through as the teams only weakness.
Haha. Hahaha. No, injuries to Datsyuk (who would otherwise have been riding Malkin), Franzen, Holmstrom, Cleary, Hossa, Lidstrom, Rafalski, Ericsson and Lilja stole Detroit's chance at a second straight Cup. That the Pens barely managed to beat such an injury-ravaged team is not impressive at all.

As for Osgood, he'd have been a possible Conn Smythe winner had the Wings won that series. He was fantastic in the 2008 and 2009 playoffs.


Last edited by Crymson: 12-24-2012 at 03:52 PM.
Crymson is offline  
Old
12-24-2012, 04:19 PM
  #58
Dangles78
Registered User
 
Dangles78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 723
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
Haha. Hahaha. No, injuries to Datsyuk (who would otherwise have been riding Malkin), Franzen, Holmstrom, Cleary, Hossa, Lidstrom, Rafalski, Ericsson and Lilja stole Detroit's chance at a second straight Cup. That the Pens barely managed to beat such an injury-ravaged team is not impressive at all.
Seriously? So much fail in this part of the post. You do realize that a key component of championship teams is that they stay healthy throughout the playoffs, right?

You're just making excuses to cover up the fact that the Pens outplayed the Wings. If they didn't, they would have lost.

And you might want to check your facts about those players and injuries...

Dangles78 is offline  
Old
12-24-2012, 04:26 PM
  #59
Jahodac
Registered User
 
Jahodac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 1,475
vCash: 500
No deal if the starter here becomes Crawford.

Jahodac is offline  
Old
12-24-2012, 04:53 PM
  #60
CanadienShark
Registered User
 
CanadienShark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,574
vCash: 517
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnybaby View Post
Vokoun was poor last season, apparently. Yet even in a "bad" season he had a better save percentage than Fleury. Outside of the 07/08 season, Vokoun has produced better #'s than Fleury every season since Fleury entered the league.

No, obviously Vokoun/Scrivens isn't a comparable tandem. But, it's much cheaper and the statistically better goalie is still with the Penguins. The penguins downgrade in net to find Sid a long-term winger in my proposal.
Stats don't tell the whole story. Vokoun is also getting up there in age and may not handle the rigours of being a regular starter anymore.

CanadienShark is offline  
Old
12-24-2012, 04:57 PM
  #61
CanadienShark
Registered User
 
CanadienShark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,574
vCash: 517
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangles78 View Post
Seriously? So much fail in this part of the post. You do realize that a key component of championship teams is that they stay healthy throughout the playoffs, right?

You're just making excuses to cover up the fact that the Pens outplayed the Wings. If they didn't, they would have lost.

And you might want to check your facts about those players and injuries...
I agree for the most part, however reffing (not saying necessarily in this case) can and does affect a lot of games. Is that an excuse, if you lose? Perhaps it's an excuse, but excuses CAN be valid.

Point is, excuses can be legitimate, it's all circumstantial.

CanadienShark is offline  
Old
12-24-2012, 10:11 PM
  #62
jayball75
Registered User
 
jayball75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 369
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
Is this a joke? Fleury was atrocious. You might as well say that the Avs' defense left Theodore out to dry against the Wings in 2008. It would be just as untrue.



Haha. Hahaha. No, injuries to Datsyuk (who would otherwise have been riding Malkin), Franzen, Holmstrom, Cleary, Hossa, Lidstrom, Rafalski, Ericsson and Lilja stole Detroit's chance at a second straight Cup. That the Pens barely managed to beat such an injury-ravaged team is not impressive at all.

As for Osgood, he'd have been a possible Conn Smythe winner had the Wings won that series. He was fantastic in the 2008 and 2009 playoffs.
Osgood is one of if not the top over rated goalie of his time. He won cups with Detroit and was absolutely garbage for St. Louis and the islanders. The only true fan of Chris osgood is Chris osgood himself. His over blown self image made me laugh repeatedly during post game interviews. Like wtf did he just say about himself ? A true fan of any team can admit defeat to a better team and not blame it on injuries. They were two great teams and the better one walked away with the cup just as it was the year before when Detroit won.

jayball75 is offline  
Old
12-25-2012, 03:38 AM
  #63
BonkTastic
"Small Sample Size!"
 
BonkTastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Jakarta, IDN
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,155
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring Back Scuderi View Post
You must not watch many Red Wings or Penguins games then. No one would confuse the styles they play.

Chris Osgood was an average goalie with nothing special to his game. Fleury has amazing natural abilities as a goalie that Osgood could only have dreamed of, it's his inability to consistently play at the level he should with all that talent that's the problem.
Oh, I certainly wasn't comparing styles of play. Osgood got the most out of at best pedestrian skills. Fleury has tremendous skill, but for whatever reason hasn't translated that skill into the success his skill should have reflected. Personally, I think Fleury's lack of success (relative to what his skill should translate as) is 80% mental and 20% style.

My point of comparison between Osgood and Fleury, and I apologize as I should have made this clearer in my first post, is that the are both goalies that have received accolades undeserving to them because they played on teams far better than they were. Nether have ever been better than an average NHL goalie for a significantly long sample size (in respects to their careers, not a 30-game stretch or something) to deserve the overwhelming credit that were bestowed upon them at times.

Just my opinion. I've been a Fleury critic since his WJC gaffe, though, so I might not be the most unbiased observer. He kind of reminds me of Pascale Leclaire (albeit a much, much better version of Leclaire, obviously, I'm not saying Fleury=Leclaire or anything crazy here)... not in Leclaire's injury-prone-ness, but in the sense that you'd watch Leclaire in practice and at SOME stretches in games and think to yourself "this guy is just a phenom, he's making it look too easy", but then more often you get to a point in the game where he just looks so far out of place, despite all the talent you know is there, and it drives you nuts. If the game were skill-only, Leclaire could have been a top-10 goalie (minus the injuries, of course), but the guy just had a head like a sieve (and an even uglier mug, haha).

I just think Fleury's only ever had one "great" year, 2007-08. He's been phenomenally pedestrian pretty much every other year, with a slightly above-average 2010-11.


Last edited by BonkTastic: 12-25-2012 at 03:47 AM.
BonkTastic is offline  
Old
12-25-2012, 03:43 AM
  #64
Mister Hockey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Hockeyland
Country: United States
Posts: 1,048
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
Is this a joke? Fleury was atrocious. You might as well say that the Avs' defense left Theodore out to dry against the Wings in 2008. It would be just as untrue.



Haha. Hahaha. No, injuries to Datsyuk (who would otherwise have been riding Malkin), Franzen, Holmstrom, Cleary, Hossa, Lidstrom, Rafalski, Ericsson and Lilja stole Detroit's chance at a second straight Cup. That the Pens barely managed to beat such an injury-ravaged team is not impressive at all.

As for Osgood, he'd have been a possible Conn Smythe winner had the Wings won that series. He was fantastic in the 2008 and 2009 playoffs.
This is why I hate posting. I don't want to be mean, but I hate dealing with folks that know nothing about hockey.


MAF had a great year. Brent sucked bad. I think MAF played about 10 too many games. But, the dee was so poor during the playoffs. I thought about coming out of retirement during the playoffs.

Mister Hockey is offline  
Old
12-25-2012, 08:06 AM
  #65
Will Hunting
Registered User
 
Will Hunting's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: European Union
Posts: 1,390
vCash: 500
Fleury is getting awfully underrated here. He had a tough PO, he was probably tired there because of Brent Johnson disability to play normally, while Philadelphia was very effective and confident on the other hand.

MAF was very solid in regular season. Thing is, his stats are still somehow deflated. You really canīt compare letīs say goalie stats in Boston and in Pittsburgh. While Boston goalies are everytime in very comfortable positions, MAF plays in a pure offensive system. Pittsburgh focuses on puck possession and spends about 70% of time in offensive zone. That means MAF doesnīt face a lot of shots but WHEN he faces some, there are a lot of high-quality chances arising from odd man rushes, poor defensive coverage or so. Goalie looks as good as defensive system does. You should blame Pens defense first, but Marc deserves at least a bit better than this. That said, Marc was still bad in last PO, but No goalie in the world would have been over 90% in that series. Letīs give him a chance and donīt throw him under the bridge already. We need to rebuild our defense and defensive system first.

Will Hunting is offline  
Old
12-25-2012, 01:00 PM
  #66
jayball75
Registered User
 
jayball75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 369
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will Hunting View Post
Fleury is getting awfully underrated here. He had a tough PO, he was probably tired there because of Brent Johnson disability to play normally, while Philadelphia was very effective and confident on the other hand.

MAF was very solid in regular season. Thing is, his stats are still somehow deflated. You really canīt compare letīs say goalie stats in Boston and in Pittsburgh. While Boston goalies are everytime in very comfortable positions, MAF plays in a pure offensive system. Pittsburgh focuses on puck possession and spends about 70% of time in offensive zone. That means MAF doesnīt face a lot of shots but WHEN he faces some, there are a lot of high-quality chances arising from odd man rushes, poor defensive coverage or so. Goalie looks as good as defensive system does. You should blame Pens defense first, but Marc deserves at least a bit better than this. That said, Marc was still bad in last PO, but No goalie in the world would have been over 90% in that series. Letīs give him a chance and donīt throw him under the bridge already. We need to rebuild our defense and defensive system first.
You could also say that had Pittsburgh been able to play just a little better defensively the spotlight would've been on the brutal play of Bryzgolov. Watching that series you knew whoever made it through wasn't going far.
Also to further support your evidence of a goalie is only as good as his defense I have one name for you.....Brian Elliot. Who's career was hanging by a skate lace returns in St. Louis and plays lights out.

jayball75 is offline  
Old
12-25-2012, 01:28 PM
  #67
nmbr_24
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,451
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayball75 View Post
By the evidence shown in your avatar I'd say you just don't like fluery because he stole a chance for a second straight cup from Detroit. And that having osgood as your goalie would eventually show through as the teams only weakness.
Fleury didn't steal anything. He played decent but stealing the Cup from the Wings? I don't think so.

I think a lot of people say Fleury was very good in that series because whenever anyone plays highlights they show the end of the game with the Wings pressuring the Pens.

Fleury never played like Quick, Thomas, or any number of other goaltenders who have a much better claim of stealing a series.

The Penguins won the Cup because of their players like Malkin and Crosby.

nmbr_24 is offline  
Old
12-25-2012, 05:48 PM
  #68
jayball75
Registered User
 
jayball75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 369
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmbr_24 View Post
Fleury didn't steal anything. He played decent but stealing the Cup from the Wings? I don't think so.

I think a lot of people say Fleury was very good in that series because whenever anyone plays highlights they show the end of the game with the Wings pressuring the Pens.

Fleury never played like Quick, Thomas, or any number of other goaltenders who have a much better claim of stealing a series.

The Penguins won the Cup because of their players like Malkin and Crosby.
He still out played osgood which isn't hard. The same can be said for the previous year when Detroit won the cup. They won the cup largely because of the team in front of him. I don't remember every game that year but osgood standing on his head in every series isn't a memory of mine( maybe that's selective because I didn't like him). Fluery would've been my pick for team Canada after Brodeur pooped the bed. He was there for a reason and I don't think the management for team Canada know less about goaltending than any of the fluery haters on here. Fluery will bounce back whenever the season resumes. His situation is he plays for one of the most offensive teams and will suffer a bit numbers wise.

jayball75 is offline  
Old
12-25-2012, 06:13 PM
  #69
Blackhawkswincup
Global Moderator
 
Blackhawkswincup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chicagoland
Country: United States
Posts: 103,186
vCash: 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Chreider View Post
Pens get:

Crawford
Sharp
Saad

Hawks get:

Fleury
Kennedy
Jeffrey
Hawks get absolutely bent over here

Dont improve in goal , Give up our best porspect and give up the best player in deal as well

Honestly I would rather bring back Huet then see Fleury in net

Blackhawkswincup is offline  
Old
12-25-2012, 06:13 PM
  #70
DisgruntledHawkFan
Moderator
 
DisgruntledHawkFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 21,753
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to DisgruntledHawkFan
Wouldn't take Fleury and his contract for free on this Chicago team.

DisgruntledHawkFan is online now  
Old
12-25-2012, 06:57 PM
  #71
zeus3007*
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Red Deer, Alberta
Posts: 13,228
vCash: 500
Fleury gets way too much hate on HF. He's a significant upgrade in the Hawks net. Not signficant enough to move Sharp, but significant.

zeus3007* is offline  
Old
12-25-2012, 07:07 PM
  #72
Blackhawkswincup
Global Moderator
 
Blackhawkswincup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chicagoland
Country: United States
Posts: 103,186
vCash: 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
Fleury gets way too much hate on HF. He's a significant upgrade in the Hawks net. Not signficant enough to move Sharp, but significant.
How is he an upgrade?

He is worse come playoff time then Crawford and would be playing behind a defense worse then the one he had in Pittsburgh last year

Fleury would be bigger mistake financially/on ice then Huet

Blackhawkswincup is offline  
Old
12-25-2012, 07:09 PM
  #73
TheRollingPuck
Keep Calm & Corsi On
 
TheRollingPuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Moncton, NB
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,041
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
Fleury gets way too much hate on HF. He's a significant upgrade in the Hawks net. Not signficant enough to move Sharp, but significant.
Yeah. I don't understand the opposition to Fleury, especially when Crawford is the other option.

TheRollingPuck is offline  
Old
12-25-2012, 07:51 PM
  #74
zeus3007*
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Red Deer, Alberta
Posts: 13,228
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
How is he an upgrade?

He is worse come playoff time then Crawford and would be playing behind a defense worse then the one he had in Pittsburgh last year

Fleury would be bigger mistake financially/on ice then Huet
Yep, two Cup finals appearances, one where he won the cup, certainly is worse than Crawford. Come on man, take the blinders off, aside from a bad series last year against Philly last year, Fleury has been solid come playoff time. And the Penguins defense was nonexistent in that series, so I don't really believe that its actually a worse defense than what Pittsburgh had last year. Especially with Keith and Seabrook playing for 25 minutes a game.

zeus3007* is offline  
Old
12-25-2012, 08:00 PM
  #75
Sarava
Moderator
 
Sarava's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Naperville, IL
Country: United States
Posts: 8,690
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
Yep, two Cup finals appearances, one where he won the cup, certainly is worse than Crawford. Come on man, take the blinders off, aside from a bad series last year against Philly last year, Fleury has been solid come playoff time. And the Penguins defense was nonexistent in that series, so I don't really believe that its actually a worse defense than what Pittsburgh had last year. Especially with Keith and Seabrook playing for 25 minutes a game.
In the 3 years since the Pens won the cup, his playoff save % has been below .900 in all 3 playoffs.

Sarava is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:21 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. Đ2014 All Rights Reserved.