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Johan Franzen - Third Highest Goal Scorer Of 2004 Draft

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Old
12-23-2012, 11:24 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by JDrake28 View Post
I don't care what Hossa has or hasn't done in the playoffs. I'll take a two-way forward who doesn't take a shift off as opposed to a floater.

Hossa is superior in every aspect of the game compared to Franzen.
Yup, and Holland got bait and switched by Franzen. The guy got paid and shut it down. It's pathetic.

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12-23-2012, 01:49 PM
  #77
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Franzen's top end speed hasn't been "pretty good" for at least the last two or three years. At one time I considered him to be a great combo of size/speed, but those days are long gone. Whether it be injury, age, desire or all three...at this point Franzen is a plodding perimeter player that is inconsistent in both effort and goal scoring.

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12-23-2012, 01:58 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by JDrake28 View Post
I don't care what Hossa has or hasn't done in the playoffs. I'll take a two-way forward who doesn't take a shift off as opposed to a floater.

Hossa is superior in every aspect of the game compared to Franzen.
Well you might not care but, Franzen is better than Hossa in the playoffs and goal scoring. Especially PPG and GWG.

So not every aspect of the game, you cannot simply throw out whatever weakens your argument.

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12-23-2012, 02:14 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
Well you might not care but, Franzen is better than Hossa in the playoffs and goal scoring. Especially PPG and GWG.

So not every aspect of the game, you cannot simply throw out whatever weakens your argument.
Franzen used to be better. He has been pretty miserable since 2010. That four goal game against SJ really did a nice job of making it seem like Franzen was useful that year when in reality he was absolutely horrendous.

There are two Franzen's.

Pre contract Franzen and post contract Franzen.

Hossa is 1000x the player Franzen is currently.

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12-23-2012, 03:12 PM
  #80
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I wonder, going back to 09, if we'd have signed Zetterberg and Hossa to 7 year- $50M deals, if we'd be a better team in better shape today..

I never liked the long contract deals. But even then, we'd have an awful lot of money tied up in $31+year old forwards.

Still, I think it would be better from the Jurcos and Jarnkroks to learn from Hossa than Franzen.

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12-23-2012, 03:25 PM
  #81
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I wonder, going back to 09, if we'd have signed Zetterberg and Hossa to 7 year- $50M deals, if we'd be a better team in better shape today..

I never liked the long contract deals. But even then, we'd have an awful lot of money tied up in $31+year old forwards.

Still, I think it would be better from the Jurcos and Jarnkroks to learn from Hossa than Franzen.
Hossa is the superior player no question. The mistake was not giving him whatever he wanted. He took $63 million though, not 50.

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12-23-2012, 04:33 PM
  #82
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No. There are plenty of guys on the team that "don't put it together every game" that I think still work their butts off. Helm. Miller. Filp. You can tell when a guy is working hard. And a good number of the Wings players are always working hard even if they aren't scoring. Filp's biggest problem has always been his lack of killer instinct. He seems afraid to shoot. But he's never ever lazy.

Franzen? He gets lazy.
No.

Too many people equate laziness with not scoring.

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12-23-2012, 05:52 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Bench View Post
Hossa is the superior player no question. The mistake was not giving him whatever he wanted. He took $63 million though, not 50.
Whatever the number is/was, Holland decided to go with this cap circumvention contracts... hoping to keep Hudler and Sammy as well as Franzen. But we all know how that worked.

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12-24-2012, 02:59 AM
  #84
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When if you score 30 a year, that means on average, there's 52 games you don't score. Even more when you start adding in multi-goal games. But what Franzen has done, since 2007, is score 0.4 goals per game in the regular season. That's over a sample of 323 games. The "inconsistency" and "azy" issues that plagues him is a reputation perpetuated by a handful ON THESE VERY FORUMS that post in every Franzen thread as if it is fact.
Nonsense. If you can't grasp that Franzen is often a lazy floater...You've never played competitive hockey and don't understand what you're watching. Try and baffle those who know with bs all you want...big fail on your part.

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12-24-2012, 07:17 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by RaySheppard View Post
Nonsense. If you can't grasp that Franzen is often a lazy floater...You've never played competitive hockey and don't understand what you're watching. Try and baffle those who know with bs all you want...big fail on your part.
I find it more laughable that anybody who has ever played hockey would consider a guy that makes it as a pro lazy.

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12-24-2012, 10:44 AM
  #86
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I find it more laughable that anybody who has ever played hockey would consider a guy that makes it as a pro lazy.
Everything is relative.
With Franzen, just compare him to himself.

I believe lots of Franzen fans pointed to a Franzen quote a couple years ago about how he was bored until its playoff time.

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12-24-2012, 01:14 PM
  #87
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Its nice to be a Wings fan. One of our biggest problems is a4 mill/year 30 goal scorer who is even better in the playoffs . 25 other teams wish they had a problem like Franzen.

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12-24-2012, 02:05 PM
  #88
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Its nice to be a Wings fan. One of our biggest problems is a4 mill/year 30 goal scorer who is even better in the playoffs . 25 other teams wish they had a problem like Franzen.
Thats a wonderfully refreshing point of view.

Perspective is good

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12-24-2012, 03:21 PM
  #89
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Its nice to be a Wings fan. One of our biggest problems is a4 mill/year 30 goal scorer who is even better in the playoffs . 25 other teams wish they had a problem like Franzen.
According to main forum we have bigger problems soon.

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12-24-2012, 03:42 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by RaySheppard View Post
Nonsense. If you can't grasp that Franzen is often a lazy floater...You've never played competitive hockey and don't understand what you're watching. Try and baffle those who know with bs all you want...big fail on your part.
There's just no hope for me!

Merry Christmas.

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12-24-2012, 07:30 PM
  #91
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According to main forum we have bigger problems soon.
No replacements for Lidstrom or Stuart, aging Datsyuk & Zetterberg.
Unless someone starts megadeveloping, we're going to have problems.

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12-24-2012, 07:51 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by TS Quint View Post
Its nice to be a Wings fan. One of our biggest problems is a4 mill/year 30 goal scorer who is even better in the playoffs . 25 other teams wish they had a problem like Franzen.
Too bad Franzen hasnt been better in the playoffs for three years.

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12-24-2012, 07:52 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by kemisti View Post
According to main forum we have bigger problems soon.
They aren't wrong.

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12-25-2012, 12:00 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by TS Quint View Post
Its nice to be a Wings fan. One of our biggest problems is a4 mill/year 30 goal scorer who is even better in the playoffs . 25 other teams wish they had a problem like Franzen.
this is for sure not our biggest problem. even when you say so.
we still have no upgrades for hudler. datsyuk and zetta needs replacements soon, our core at all is overaging and ken holland is not able to do his job retooling this team.
even when brunner will remain with the team next season ist doubtful that he will hit hudlers numbers. even then hes no upgrade then. and remember how hudler was the wipping boy.

so franzen is a problem but not our biggest.
just imagine having filppula and darren helm our 1 & 2 center men in 2 years. sidelined by bertuzzi, pylon cleary and samuelsson. thats not whats looking like a contender team to me.

the worst part is that all the management plans didnt pan out a bit since 4 years.

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12-25-2012, 12:22 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by fimoknete View Post
this is for sure not our biggest problem. even when you say so.
we still have no upgrades for hudler. datsyuk and zetta needs replacements soon, our core at all is overaging and ken holland is not able to do his job retooling this team.
even when brunner will remain with the team next season ist doubtful that he will hit hudlers numbers. even then hes no upgrade then. and remember how hudler was the wipping boy.

so franzen is a problem but not our biggest.
just imagine having filppula and darren helm our 1 & 2 center men in 2 years. sidelined by bertuzzi, pylon cleary and samuelsson. thats not whats looking like a contender team to me.

the worst part is that all the management plans didnt pan out a bit since 4 years.
Three 1st overalls in a row, here we come!

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12-25-2012, 01:56 PM
  #96
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According to main forum we have bigger problems soon.
Guess I'm missing it. Link?

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12-25-2012, 03:55 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Forty View Post
No.

Too many people equate laziness with not scoring.
That's true. A lot of people do. But that's not what I'm doing. I pointed out several players that I don't consider lazy, even when they don't produce. I call Franzen lazy because he's lazy, not because he's not scoring.

On the other hand, Franzen playoff beast defenders seem to inevitably point to his goal totals in the playoffs, as though his beastliness in 2008 and 2009 are enough to overcome his dismal performances in every year subsequent.

And that one year where he scored four goals in one game against the Sharks. Yeah, wheeee. He crapped all over the Sharks on their off night where we walked all over them. He still had a terrible playoff that year, no matter how good his "numbers" look as a result of ONE game.
Quote:
So not every aspect of the game, you cannot simply throw out whatever weakens your argument.
You're looking at raw numbers and the not the games behind those numbers. Franzen was godly in 2008 and 2009, sure. But he's been coasting ever since. He has decent goal totals because he scores four in one meaningless game in our short playoff appearances. He hasn't been good since 2009. Watching the games from 2008-09 and comparing them to 2010-2012 is night and day for Franzen.

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12-25-2012, 04:23 PM
  #98
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Guess I'm missing it. Link?
Nah pops up somewhere every now and then, it was partly a joke.

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12-25-2012, 05:09 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by fimoknete View Post
this is for sure not our biggest problem. even when you say so.
we still have no upgrades for hudler. datsyuk and zetta needs replacements soon, our core at all is overaging and ken holland is not able to do his job retooling this team.
even when brunner will remain with the team next season ist doubtful that he will hit hudlers numbers. even then hes no upgrade then. and remember how hudler was the wipping boy.

so franzen is a problem but not our biggest.
just imagine having filppula and darren helm our 1 & 2 center men in 2 years. sidelined by bertuzzi, pylon cleary and samuelsson. thats not whats looking like a contender team to me.

the worst part is that all the management plans didnt pan out a bit since 4 years.
Its all doom and gloom in your world. Hudler is already replaced, Samuelsson is a 50 point player too. The Wings are still going to be top 10 in goals for don't worry. Sure the players are getting older but a lot of things can happen in the next few years. With a team willing to spend there are always FA's that can be aquired by the team and there are a couple good prospects in the system.

But this is a dumb debate let's just speed this up because its been done to death. Your next post is going to be more of the same but you will add in more about how you don't like Holland, Samuelsson couldn't carry Hudlers jock strap and judging by the above post you will take personal shot at me. My post will be about Holland's track record and how things aren't as bad as you are framing it. Really neither of us will say anything profound. So I'm out on this subject.

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12-25-2012, 07:42 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by TS Quint View Post
Its all doom and gloom in your world. Hudler is already replaced, Samuelsson is a 50 point player too. The Wings are still going to be top 10 in goals for don't worry. Sure the players are getting older but a lot of things can happen in the next few years. With a team willing to spend there are always FA's that can be aquired by the team and there are a couple good prospects in the system.

But this is a dumb debate let's just speed this up because its been done to death. Your next post is going to be more of the same but you will add in more about how you don't like Holland, Samuelsson couldn't carry Hudlers jock strap and judging by the above post you will take personal shot at me. My post will be about Holland's track record and how things aren't as bad as you are framing it. Really neither of us will say anything profound. So I'm out on this subject.
The problem is, you're unrealistically optimistic. You say for a team willing to spend, there are always FA's. Well, we missed out on all the big ones this past year.

The rest is just being realistic. Who can replace Datsyuk? He's a one of a kind player, top5 player in the league in just about everyone's list. That's a tall order. We just lost Lidstrom, some people consider him top1 or top2 dman of all time. Who's going to replace him? Don't point to the prospects, no one is even close to that level yet.

Yes, we're all excited with the potential that the young guys have. But make no mistake, a lot can happen. The absolute best case scenario is that they will replace these generational players that we have leaving the team soon. More likely, they'll be good but not as good. Some may even bust. Hell, they probably won't even play up, since we keep filling the roster with old reruns like Sammy/Q, and reupping players like Bert and Cleary.

An honest, realistic look at the team's future is one that says "We aren't going to be as good as we've been." There is more than enough reason to be worried.

I don't get the people that are satisfied with the team we have. We got trounced in the first round of the playoffs. I didn't see our team get stronger. I saw it get a year older and saw a defensive legend retire. I want them to win the Cup, not just make the playoffs every year. I point out the holes in the team because I want them filled. People like you seem content with early exits. That's fine if it floats your boat. I prefer the Stanley Cup.

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