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12-24-2012, 03:34 PM
  #351
Will Hunting
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Wow, Joe Morrow is getting extremely overrated here. He disappointed me a lot this season and is far from being NHL ready. I expected much more from him after his last yearīs flashes. But nice discussion overall.

Itīs too hard to rank our prospects for me, I would only say one thing - Harrington is a key for us and our system. Heīs the most sure thing out of our boys and I can see him playing in NHL as soon as next year and maybe slowly and surely develop to complement Letang on our 1st pair. Point is that Letang would have his hands open for some killing offense, Harrington is comfortable in complementing situations like that and playing big minutes. If I had to compare him to somebody, I would say Girardi.

We need just 4 of these 6 prospects to fulfill their potential and we will have a Top 5 defense in the league in 4-5 years. (we can still add something nice from FA).

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12-24-2012, 04:15 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by Will Hunting View Post
Wow, Joe Morrow is getting extremely overrated here. He disappointed me a lot this season and is far from being NHL ready. I expected much more from him after his last yearīs flashes. But nice discussion overall.

Itīs too hard to rank our prospects for me, I would only say one thing - Harrington is a key for us and our system. Heīs the most sure thing out of our boys and I can see him playing in NHL as soon as next year and maybe slowly and surely develop to complement Letang on our 1st pair. Point is that Letang would have his hands open for some killing offense, Harrington is comfortable in complementing situations like that and playing big minutes. If I had to compare him to somebody, I would say Girardi.

We need just 4 of these 6 prospects to fulfill their potential and we will have a Top 5 defense in the league in 4-5 years. (we can still add something nice from FA).
He's one of the youngest defensemen in the AHL, and playing a system that takes a lot of getting used to, even for veteran players.

Our eventual First Team All-Star James Neal, of all people, took awhile to find his bearings here.

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12-24-2012, 04:23 PM
  #353
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I've watched a few of Maatta's games since he's been on NHL network with the Finns. Not incredibly impressed with him, but that's 90% of the appeal. He does nothing really exceptional, but everything well. IMO, he's a guy who can easily get lost in the shuffle because there's nothing he really does that stands out.

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12-24-2012, 04:24 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
He's one of the youngest defensemen in the AHL, and playing a system that takes a lot of getting used to, even for veteran players.

Our eventual First Team All-Star James Neal, of all people, took awhile to find his bearings here.
And Neal is playing probably the easiest position to adapt to. Morrow is going to need some time under the system and some time to develop. I think people took the "Morrow can play in the NHL now" as "Morrow can be a top 4 defenseman now." Morrow can play in the NHL now, IMO, but would play a Niskanen role, and a PPQB on the 2nd unit.

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12-24-2012, 04:48 PM
  #355
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Yep- lets ignore the simple fact that Doumulin in his 1st year in the AHL has significantly outplayed Depres in his 2nd year in the A....

Personally, I don't think you can tell who is going to be better right now, but I am leaning towards Doumulin based on this seasons production.
Dumoulin hasn't "significantly outplayed" Despres this season. He's impressed, for sure, but he's also been scratched a couple times.


Here's two lists I came up with when I should have been working today:

NHL readiness:

Despres
Bortuzzo
Strait
Dumoulin
Samuelsson
Morrow
Harrington
Pouliot
Maatta
Ruopp

NHL upside:

Pouliot
Despres
Morrow
Dumoulin
Maatta
Harrington
Ruopp
Bortuzzo
Samuelsson
Strait


Based on upside + readiness I feel like we should not only hang onto Despres but groom him to be a top pairing guy.


Last edited by Jacob: 12-24-2012 at 04:59 PM.
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Old
12-24-2012, 04:51 PM
  #356
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Not at all. I'm not getting the posts about Despres playing poorly. He can do better, but I don't think he's been that terrible at all.

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12-24-2012, 05:41 PM
  #357
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Not at all. I'm not getting the posts about Despres playing poorly. He can do better, but I don't think he's been that terrible at all.
You are right. He isnīt horrible. Thing is heīs also slowly getting better and better. People probably expected too much from him in AHL, thatīs it. But Iīm still not sure about him being 100% NHL ready when playing in tougher situations.

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12-24-2012, 05:46 PM
  #358
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I'm curious, I haven't gotten to watch WBS at all really. What do the D pairings usually look like and who plays the most minutes against the top lines? A shot at a list would be greatly appreciated

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12-25-2012, 12:39 AM
  #359
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
I've watched a few of Maatta's games since he's been on NHL network with the Finns. Not incredibly impressed with him, but that's 90% of the appeal. He does nothing really exceptional, but everything well. IMO, he's a guy who can easily get lost in the shuffle because there's nothing he really does that stands out.

Yeah, I flip-flop back & forth between who I think will be better (and who we should keep), Maatta or Despres. It's really too soon to tell, because we need to see how Despres performs after a whole season & playoffs, and ditto for Maatta (to say nothing of how they play next year).


Here's my current list of top prospects, factoring in all things:

1) Pouliot
2) Harrington
3) Morrow*
4) Dumoulin
5-a) Despres
5-b) Maatta

* next to Morrow means that he has the highest upside, and I have had Pouliot & Morrow ranked #'s 1 and 2 on my list until now, but seeing Harrington take his game to an even higher level this year, and Morrow (albeit expectedly) struggling somewhat, means that Harrington has jumped to #2 on my list.


Getting back to the statement that Harrington would make a great partner for Letang: yes, he would obviously. But the thing is, Harrington really does have offensive upside. He is just SOOO good defensively, that he gets used in that role, and he'll never use & develop his offense if he plays with a pure offensive guy (i.e. Letang or Pouliot).


If, on the other hand, Harrington can find some chemistry with a guy like Bortuzzo/Dumoulin/Despres or someone of the sort (i.e. a two-way guy who can also play shut-down role), then Harrington could be the one to jump up in the play. And when Harrington does so, he uses his elite smarts to make great decisions and great reads. If he develops good chemistry wth one of those guys, we could have a Suter-Weber or Keith-Seabrook situation in that both guys on the pair are capable of jumping in, but have enough chemistry to read each other and know who's jumping up and who's staying back on any given play -- and it will go back & forth from shift to shift.


That's the exact role I'd like to see Harrington in one day, because while he is great as a shutdown guy, he has so much more potential than that.

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12-25-2012, 04:48 AM
  #360
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Post Gazettes annual top 10 is up:


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Old
12-25-2012, 06:34 AM
  #361
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"What gets us excited is that these are struggles that can easily be fixed. Defending a little better down low, you can be taught those type of things. What he does in the offensive end -- his skating ability and his shot -- those are pretty difficult things to teach."

I'm glad Fitz said it, because I've been saying that about Pouliot and Morrow. Both possess things that cannot be taught.

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Old
12-25-2012, 07:06 AM
  #362
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Last edited by UnrealMachine: 12-25-2012 at 07:08 AM. Reason: Re-posted in other thread.
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12-25-2012, 08:39 AM
  #363
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
I can't see Maatta being a #1, but he could be a top pairing guy if he maxes out.

I think Despres and Maatta both have similar offensive potential, but Despres' size, strength and skating give him a big edge in my eyes.

Dumoulin, I'm not comfortable talking about until I see more of him, but a lot of people think quite highly of him.

When all things are equal, I'd prefer to keep the bigger, stronger guys.

Having Harrington, Morrow, Despres and Dumoulin is a nice blend of size and skill.
I dunno. My definition of a number 1 D-man is someone who can play big minutes in all situations while being a calming presence as leader of the D-corps. He may not be good enough offensively to be a #1 on our team, especially with the way our coaching staff prioritizes quick transition in skating and passing ability. But if he reaches his potential, quite a few teams would take him as their #1 IMO.

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12-25-2012, 11:09 AM
  #364
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
I've watched a few of Maatta's games since he's been on NHL network with the Finns. Not incredibly impressed with him, but that's 90% of the appeal. He does nothing really exceptional, but everything well. IMO, he's a guy who can easily get lost in the shuffle because there's nothing he really does that stands out.
Yeah Maataa has a nice well rounded game. The one thing that really impresses me is how he gets pucks on net and to the middle of the ice. I think thats why I always liken his hame to Gonchar. Gonch didn't skate like Coffey or shoot like Weber but he always found a way to get pucks on net.

Even if the offense doesn't come around, I could see Maatta being a Hamrlik type without the bulky stat years. Solid and well rounded more than great at any one thing and flashy.

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Old
12-25-2012, 11:55 AM
  #365
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Post Gazettes annual top 10 is up:
Thanks for the link. Really hope Megna can stay healthy.

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12-25-2012, 02:32 PM
  #366
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Always a good read.

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Old
12-26-2012, 04:30 AM
  #367
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Harrington looking real good after first period against the Germans, who have played very well offensively so far.

I believe he has 4 blocked shots already, and is very good at getting into position. Just so smart and could be on the Pens a lot faster than people anticipate.

Only hiccup came while SH and there was some miscommunication which led to a German goal.

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12-26-2012, 04:33 AM
  #368
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Watched Finland- Latvia. Not the best of games but at least i got to see 2 penguins prospects. Maata was steady, good on the PP, didnt have any points but was on the ice for 2-3 goals. had good poise along the line with the puck on the powerplay. Made the "slapshot fake" a few times too much, would rather have seen him let it go one of the 4 times he faked it.

Bluegers were hard to get a read on since Latvia was badly outplayed and didnt have much puck-possesion. He did however looked to be the most creative player by FAR on the PP when Latvia could get some pressure. For some reason tho he was on the 2nd PP unit and i think the 3rd line. So the talent around him werent the best. COuld have had an assist but somehow the Latvian player missed the open net.

Will be nice to watch Latvia again against weaker competition to get a better look att Bluegers.

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12-26-2012, 04:35 AM
  #369
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Watched Finland- Latvia. Not the best of games but at least i got to see 2 penguins prospects. Maata was steady, good on the PP, didnt have any points but was on the ice for 2-3 goals. had good poise along the line with the puck on the powerplay. Made the "slapshot fake" a few times too much, would rather have seen him let it go one of the 4 times he faked it.

Bluegers were hard to get a read on since Latvia was badly outplayed and didnt have much puck-possesion. He did however looked to be the most creative player by FAR on the PP when Latvia could get some pressure. For some reason tho he was on the 2nd PP unit and i think the 3rd line. So the talent around him werent the best. COuld have had an assist but somehow the Latvian player missed the open net.

Will be nice to watch Latvia again against weaker competition to get a better look att Bluegers.
He was on the same line with Rihards bukarts so really not that bad of a line its just that he got limited minutes,because our coach is an idiot.

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12-26-2012, 04:43 AM
  #370
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harrington with 4 blocked shots, a slashing penalty and nearly a breakaway goal after that panalty so far

edit: and now a nice slap pass on the 8th goal


Last edited by Pfnf: 12-26-2012 at 05:28 AM.
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12-26-2012, 05:58 AM
  #371
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Harrington had an average ame imo. Were on the ice against for at least 2 of the 3 goals (didnt see the last one). 1 goal were a bad change so he didnt recover in time so nothing he could do there. But the other goal he went for the hit on the boxplay and got out of position far out the half boards. german player escaped with the puck and they got a 2 on 1 down low and scored.

He also had a really nice heads up assist on Drouins goal.

Now i have to watch sweden and P-Forsberg a.k.a "what could have been"

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12-26-2012, 05:50 PM
  #372
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All in all, Pens are definitely in bottom half from 2006-09 any maybe bottom 10 depending on how things go.
Oddly enough, the Pens were drafting in the bottom half of all but one of those drafts, and generally were drafting in the bottom 10 for most of them as well.

Which would seem to indicate that the Pens' drafting is roughly average.

I know all of us would prefer that the Pens were better than average at scouting, but at least they don't seem to be underperforming relative to their position in the draft.

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12-26-2012, 08:32 PM
  #373
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I dunno. My definition of a number 1 D-man is someone who can play big minutes in all situations while being a calming presence as leader of the D-corps. He may not be good enough offensively to be a #1 on our team, especially with the way our coaching staff prioritizes quick transition in skating and passing ability. But if he reaches his potential, quite a few teams would take him as their #1 IMO.
Ya maybe he could be. It's really tough to figure out his upside.

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12-27-2012, 11:31 AM
  #374
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It's tough to judge overall performance in a game against a weak opponent like Germany, but one thing I liked seeing was how active Harrington was in the offensive side of the game. I agree with those who've said he has untapped offensive potential. He was jumping into rushes, and his assist on the Drouin goal showed he's got some passing ability and vision.

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12-27-2012, 11:33 AM
  #375
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Is Morrow our best prospect? I suggested Kane and Crawford for Fleury, Jeffery and Morrow and people were saying that Pouliot was a better prospect than Morrow and that Fleury wasn't worth Crawford. I'm completely confused.

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