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Old
12-24-2012, 01:38 PM
  #26
arsmaster
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Rollie Melanson's Impact on Canuck goaltending

Tired or reading about this in other threads, namely the Wolves thread.

My apologies if it's not my place to start this.

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Old
12-24-2012, 01:41 PM
  #27
ItsAllPartOfThePlan
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This is probably the worst debate I've seen on these forums. It appears that everything (stats, goalie guilds, etc) point in one direction and one poster in the other direction

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Old
12-24-2012, 01:52 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Proto View Post
You keep just repeating the same thing over and over, even though both Lack and Luongo have had terrific seasons with Melanson. This is not a conversation. It's you obstinately refusing to acknowledge reality if you pretend those guys haven't had terrific seasons under Melanson.
This is true. Luongo has been very good the last 2 seasons, as has Lack prior to this year. Sometimes people reach too much when looking to substantiate weak play. In this case, Lack may simply be having a hard time in a more competitive AHL. His team certainly hasn't done him any favors, nor has his injuries.

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Old
12-24-2012, 03:03 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Verviticus View Post
i wouldn't trust that opinion at all so no it's not really a potential problem until someone comes and substantiates it
If someone who watches the game consistently says he notices something and has a strong opinion on it, I'll respect it, even if I don't agree with it (sorry *orcatown, I think you're wrong ).

I and a few others questioned Kesler's play even though he scored 40 goals. Turns out I was (sort of ?) right about it, even though, at the time I was ridiculed for questioning a 40 goal scorer.

*orcatown has pointed out something he's noticed and it is a cause for more investigation.


Last edited by shortshorts: 12-24-2012 at 06:20 PM.
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Old
12-24-2012, 03:27 PM
  #30
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Didn't they pretty much switch Luongo's style after he got ventilated by the Hawks in the playoffs a few years back? Lu is a headcase. This just screwed even more with his head.

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Old
12-24-2012, 04:50 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by orcatown View Post
Substantiate what???

It is my opinion that Melanson techniques (which one Habs fan describes as Melanson = butterfly to death) aren't working with Lack. And the stats seem to bear that out. Nor did they seem to work with Price, Theodore or Loungo IMO.
Lack posted back to back .930SV% seasons under the guidance of Rollie Melanson. His stats are exceptional - far better than what was expected out of an unheralded, undrafted AHL rookie/sophomore.

Why won't you address the fact Lack said himself he's being dealing with this hip flexor injury for awhile? It was the most important aspect of this discussion, yet you're just ignoring it and hoping it goes away...

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Old
12-24-2012, 05:37 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shortshorts View Post
If someone who watches the game consistently says he notices something and has a strong opinion on it, I'll respect it, even if I don't agree with it (sorry opendoor, I think you're wrong ).

I and a few others questioned Kesler's play even though he scored 40 goals. Turns out I was (sort of ?) right about it, even though, at the time I was ridiculed for questioning a 40 goal scorer.

Opendoor has pointed out something he's noticed and it is a cause for more investigation.
orcatown

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Old
12-24-2012, 06:21 PM
  #33
shortshorts
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
orcatown
who the **** is opendoor .

Sorry

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Old
12-24-2012, 06:26 PM
  #34
Reverend Mayhem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shortshorts View Post
who the **** is opendoor .

Sorry
Of course YOU screwed up, opendoor is literally never wrong.

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Old
12-24-2012, 06:28 PM
  #35
shortshorts
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Of course YOU screwed up, opendoor is literally never wrong.
Why me .

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Old
12-24-2012, 06:31 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shortshorts View Post
Why me .
I'm teasing. Though I'm not with opendoor. I can't remember if me and him have ever been in strong disagreement. I tend to agree with most of his points.

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Old
12-24-2012, 06:37 PM
  #37
shortshorts
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Originally Posted by Reverend Mayhem View Post
I'm teasing. Though I'm not with opendoor. I can't remember if me and him have ever been in strong disagreement. I tend to agree with most of his points.
Well, you know what? Kesler sucks.

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Old
12-24-2012, 06:51 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shortshorts View Post
Well, you know what? Kesler sucks.
*shakes fist threateningly*

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Old
12-24-2012, 07:36 PM
  #39
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When Melanson arrived in 2010-11, he advised Luongo to stand farther back in the crease to decrease the amount of skating he had to do. Luongo produced one of his two best seasons as a Canuck.

The down side of this was that Luongo was now more vulnerable to being beaten over the glove. Melanson realized this and coached Luongo to change his glove positioning in the 2011-12 season. For the first couple of months he struggled, but the rest of the season he again played like a world-class goalie, stealing wins for the team.

Cory Schneider has played very well in his two seasons as Luongo's backup. He also plays quite deep in the crease in the Melanson style.

Yes, I realize Price has gotten better since Melanson was fired in Montreal, but perhaps (gasp!) Price is simply developing naturally and entering his prime? Not to mention that Price actually had his worst year and lost his job to Halak the year after Melanson was fired?

Also, the idea of a goalie playing close to the net isn't unique to Melanson - Benoit Allaire (Rangers) also teaches that style and his pupil just won a Vezina. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with that style.

Perhaps you know something I don't, but as a fan I've been noticing mostly good results from our goalies in Melanson's two seasons here. You have said your opinion, now I have said mine.

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Old
12-24-2012, 08:03 PM
  #40
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This "discussion" is still going on?

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Old
12-24-2012, 08:07 PM
  #41
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Why did Schneider pay ELi Wilson to work with him instead of Rollie during the lockout?



Goalie coaches can be an incredible asset. The problem is when a goalie coach is around too much and when a goalie coach tries to change a goalie too much.

Goalie coaches should assist a goalie in reaching his potential, not try and change a goalie into their own mold. Goalies make it to this level because they play in a way that they know how to stop the puck. Changing things mid-season is never a good thing. Unfortunately FRENCH goalie coaches are a little too over baring at times and it works in the negative like Allaire and The Monster.

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Old
12-24-2012, 08:13 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by echlfreak View Post
Why did Schneider pay ELi Wilson to work with him instead of Rollie during the lockout?
Because once the players were locked out they lost all access to team facilities and coaches. If Melanson tried to work with Schneider during a work stoppage he'd likely be fined and/or fired.

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Old
12-25-2012, 03:51 AM
  #43
orcatown
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Lack posted back to back .930SV% seasons under the guidance of Rollie Melanson. His stats are exceptional - far better than what was expected out of an unheralded, undrafted AHL rookie/sophomore.

Why won't you address the fact Lack said himself he's being dealing with this hip flexor injury for awhile? It was the most important aspect of this discussion, yet you're just ignoring it and hoping it goes away...
I'm not ignoring it. Maybe its a contributing cause to Lack's less than stellar start.

But why can't you consider that the change in style might be cause of Lack's problems this season?

I've watched many games at the beginning of the season and there appeared to be a major change in Lack's style. He was deeper in the net and much quicker to get down in a butterfly position. Moreover he did a lot more sliding on his pads back and forth across the crease. As I watched you could see opponents going over his shoulder, especially on the stick side. And it wasn't just me saying this. The announcers for the Wolves also noted and questioned this. If you want to check this out, e-mail them and ask them.

When I saw this happening I began to remember that this was how Melanson had worked with other goalies. When in Montreal he seemed to really push the deep butterfly approach on his goalies. When I know Melanson is the goalie coach and I see Lack playing the style that Melanson has used before then I think that Melanson has had hand in the change. Maybe I am assuming too much. Maybe Melanson has not advised Lack at all. But I don't think the conclusion I made is that far off when you see Lack playing the style that Melanson usually teaches and Melanson is, after all, the Canuck goalie coach.

And I not saying that methods Melanson teaches are always bad. They seemed to work with Huet and Halak. Might also say they are suitable to the way Schneider plays. But with others like Price, Thoedore and Luongo I think they probably caused more problems than they solved.

The problem suggested here is that Melanson may be too concerned with goalies playing his style rather than adapting his teaching to the player.

As far as Lack is concerned I really like the way Lack was aggressive and attacked the shooter. One of his best attributes IMO was the way he came out aggressively on angles and then quickly re-positioned back to his crease Also, it seemed to me, he was much better on deflections when he played at the top of his crease rather than being so deep. Maybe others that have watched and have different opinions. You might also want to see this as a transition which needs to be given longer. But it might also be the case that all these changes in Lack's game are not necessary and maybe it was better to leave well enough alone. Certainly the success that is noted in the quoted post would suggest this. In other words, the success of Lack in the last couple of years should mean that he stick with the style that produced those results.

As far as the hip flexor injury goes, the kind of real low butterfly position taught by Melanson requires a great deal of hip flexibility. You are extending both legs out to the side and getting your butt close to the ice. It seems to me that if Lack had hip problems then you would think he would tend away from a Melanson's style that puts so much pressure on his your hips. Thus I don't see him going to that positioning if he already had hip problems. Indeed, you have to wonder if Lack's new positioning and the sustained use of extended butterfly led to or made worse his hip problems. That's conjecture on my part but I don't think it's totally unreasonable speculation.

And I think we would all agree, no matter how off-base you think my observations are, that development of Lack is crucial to the team. Given that, I think it is important to consider if Melanson techniques are working or will work with Lack. I am certainly open to views that show how Melanson's deep in the net, butterfly approach will improve Lack's play. I don't see it but maybe there is a case to be made.

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