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Jets - Free Agents, Trades, Rumors, Speculation - Off Season 2012-13 (Part X)

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Old
12-24-2012, 03:56 PM
  #151
puck stoppa
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Kane will be traded to Toronto in a few years:
Kane and Redmond
Kessel and Gardiner

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12-24-2012, 04:01 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by puck stoppa View Post
Kane will be traded to Toronto in a few years:
Kane and Redmond
Kessel and Gardiner
Please no. Too soft and I hated his lazy entitled attitude in Boston.

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12-24-2012, 04:12 PM
  #153
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Please no. Too soft and I hated his lazy entitled attitude in Boston.
He is lazy but 37 goals and 82 points wouldn't be too shabby for the Jets.

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12-24-2012, 04:16 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by puck stoppa View Post
He is lazy but 37 goals and 82 points wouldn't be too shabby for the Jets.
I will give him credit for one thing, he doesn't like the spotlight, so he won't be in the media for poor judgment via twitter.

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12-24-2012, 04:27 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by sully1410 View Post
Yes we all know how you feel about Matt Duchene.
Matt Duchene is awesome. IMO he would instantly be the Jets best or 2nd best forward. I would take a proven 1st line forward over a prospect pretty much every time.

I am always for trading anyone if the return makes the team better.

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12-24-2012, 04:29 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Paradise View Post
How would people feel about a trading like this?

Giordano
Baertschi

for

Kane
Postma
I would want more!! I would think TNSE could get more too. Add in another prospect or two and or a couple draft picks.

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12-24-2012, 04:37 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by truck View Post
I would want more!! I would think TNSE could get more too. Add in another prospect or two and or a couple draft picks.
I think it's a good value.

Giordano is pretty underrated. Adding him would make for a really good top 4...

Enstrom - Byfuglien
Giordano - Bogosian

then trade Hainsey (if the season ever starts) for a 2nd + mid round pick


Baertschi is a top end prospect and could help replace Kane in a season or two. He would be in the NHL this year, if the season had started.


I'd love to ask for more, but I feel that if Baertschi reaches the potential that he's shown thus far, we'd easily win this deal.

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12-24-2012, 04:52 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Paradise View Post
I think it's a good value.

Giordano is pretty underrated. Adding him would make for a really good top 4...

Enstrom - Byfuglien
Giordano - Bogosian

then trade Hainsey (if the season ever starts) for a 2nd + mid round pick


Baertschi is a top end prospect and could help replace Kane in a season or two. He would be in the NHL this year, if the season had started.


I'd love to ask for more, but I feel that if Baertschi reaches the potential that he's shown thus far, we'd easily win this deal.
Baertschi looks really good, but I think Kane could net A LOT more as he is already a proven NHL scorer. Plus I will always favour a proven player over a prospect with upside.

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12-24-2012, 04:52 PM
  #159
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I don't like Baertschi at all.

I think he's going to be exposed as a one trick pony in a few years.

I don't really ever want to trade Kane.

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12-24-2012, 05:01 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by truck View Post
Baertschi looks really good, but I think Kane could net A LOT more as he is already a proven NHL scorer. Plus I will always favour a proven player over a prospect with upside.


It's not a Kane for Baertschi deal. What about Giordano over Postma? A proven player vs. a prospect with upside (which I personally don't think he reaches). I think this deal could improve the overall depth and dynamics of the team.

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12-24-2012, 05:12 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Sweech View Post
I don't like Baertschi at all.

I think he's going to be exposed as a one trick pony in a few years.

I don't really ever want to trade Kane.
I sure hope Kane asks for a trade (obviously in private). I think he's talented, but I don't mind trading him if it improves the team.

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12-24-2012, 05:48 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Paradise View Post
How would people feel about a trading like this?

Giordano
Baertschi

for

Kane
Postma
I like this trade and would do it. Baertchi has all the tools and will be a star. I think it is a mistake to under value his potential. I don't mind Kane but I am tired of being a selfish tool.

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12-24-2012, 09:10 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Paradise View Post
I sure hope Kane asks for a trade (obviously in private). I think he's talented, but I don't mind trading him if it improves the team.
I wouldn't mind any trade that improves the team. I just don't think the ones suggested do that well enough.

I also think Kane has tremendous value and that hasn't been met in any of the proposals.

Frankly I also don't know why everyone dislikes Kane.

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12-24-2012, 09:37 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Sweech View Post
I also think Kane has tremendous value and that hasn't been met in any of the proposals.
Care to give an example of that value?

Quote:
Frankly I also don't know why everyone dislikes Kane.
Move to Winnipeg and you'll find out. This isn't Hollywood or Vegas, that's for sure.

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12-24-2012, 10:27 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Paradise View Post
Care to give an example of that value?



Move to Winnipeg and you'll find out. This isn't Hollywood or Vegas, that's for sure.
I live in Hamilton Ontario. Which actually has a slightly smaller population than Winnipeg. Not exactly Hollywood or Vegas, so try again.

This is a city where they loved and still love PK Subban from his play for the Hamilton Bulldogs of the AHL. Why? For his play on the ice. Not his personal behaviour.

Your statement seems to contradict your idea of caring about the on ice product and helping the team. You seem to care more about his personality as it relates to you and not at all how it relates to his teammates. I fail to see how trading our teams' 21 year old leading goal scorer (accomplished that feat at 20.) and overall physical player for a prospect and a good defenseman helps this team. I also understand Kane's limitations (mainly hockey IQ), but the fact is he's a large plus player in every other facet of the game (skating, shot, athleticism, physical play). Plus him playing wing and not center really lessens his limitations and highlights his strengths.

Furthermore that type of trade doesn't have many examples unless a team is handcuffed by a player who doesn't want to sign. From a quick check of memory and maybe capgeek I see Evander Kane recently signed a new 6 year deal with the organization. This is a player teams overpay to attempt to acquire. Not barely scratch even on a deal.

I'm also going to stop here so I don't waste anymore time. The bottom line is Kane is not getting traded anytime soon. No matter how much you and Gary Lawless dislike him. The team and the player made a 6 year commitment to one another, so that tells me all I need to know. Do I think him taking a picture with a money phone will change that? I frankly find the idea laughable. Short story is I guess you're going to have to just deal with him and whatever he does outside of hockey. Which I have to say isn't bad. He's never said anything bad and never really proven to do anything bad, not even so much as skip out on a tab .

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Old
12-24-2012, 10:53 PM
  #166
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I don't remember enough of the Jets 1.0, but was there a player on the team as polarizing as Kane is to us? I wouldn't be opposed to trading him so long as it's for the betterment of the team. Trading him because of stupid rumours and a lousy picture or two is a horrible kneejerk reaction. I'd like to think that Chevy is beyond that type of thought.

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12-24-2012, 11:23 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by Sweech View Post
I live in Hamilton Ontario. Which actually has a slightly smaller population than Winnipeg. Not exactly Hollywood or Vegas, so try again.

This is a city where they loved and still love PK Subban from his play for the Hamilton Bulldogs of the AHL. Why? For his play on the ice. Not his personal behaviour.

Your statement seems to contradict your idea of caring about the on ice product and helping the team. You seem to care more about his personality as it relates to you and not at all how it relates to his teammates. I fail to see how trading our teams' 21 year old leading goal scorer (accomplished that feat at 20.) and overall physical player for a prospect and a good defenseman helps this team. I also understand Kane's limitations (mainly hockey IQ), but the fact is he's a large plus player in every other facet of the game (skating, shot, athleticism, physical play). Plus him playing wing and not center really lessens his limitations and highlights his strengths.

Furthermore that type of trade doesn't have many examples unless a team is handcuffed by a player who doesn't want to sign. From a quick check of memory and maybe capgeek I see Evander Kane recently signed a new 6 year deal with the organization. This is a player teams overpay to attempt to acquire. Not barely scratch even on a deal.

I'm also going to stop here so I don't waste anymore time. The bottom line is Kane is not getting traded anytime soon. No matter how much you and Gary Lawless dislike him. The team and the player made a 6 year commitment to one another, so that tells me all I need to know. Do I think him taking a picture with a money phone will change that? I frankly find the idea laughable. Short story is I guess you're going to have to just deal with him and whatever he does outside of hockey. Which I have to say isn't bad. He's never said anything bad and never really proven to do anything bad, not even so much as skip out on a tab .
I think you misunderstood my comment about Hollywood or Vegas. It relates to Kane and his big city persona.

I also don't think I contradict myself by proposing a deal that I think is good value. That's your opinion, not fact. Yes, I'm not a big fan of Kane, but I mention that I'd only trade him if I thought the value was there. I never mention dealing him for a bag of pucks like some others do with players they don't like. I could just as easily bring up your feelings of admiration towards Kane as being closed minded with regards to making a deal that could improve the team. See how that works? It's reaching Sweech. I asked you an honest question, you choose to evade it, then spout off on some tirade? Attack my post all you want, I'm perfectly fine with that. I find it funny that the post you responded to was 1 question and a humorous remark related to Winnipeg. You obviously didn't find it funny, your issue, you'll have to live with it. My opinion is about improving the team through a trade involving a valuable asset, sorry you can't see that.

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Old
12-24-2012, 11:23 PM
  #168
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I like Kane and his off ice antics don't bother me at all cause when I see him step on the ice he plays hard and with passion. The point made on this site over and over though is that he doesn't get along with teammates and vetrans at that. But personally I hope he stays here and becomes a franchise guy, people will forget about his off ice stuff when he matures and lights it up in a long playoff run. Having said all that I hope we keep him, but I think he will be traded in 2-3 years.

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12-24-2012, 11:38 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by puck stoppa View Post
I like Kane and his off ice antics don't bother me at all cause when I see him step on the ice he plays hard and with passion. The point made on this site over and over though is that he doesn't get along with teammates and vetrans at that. But personally I hope he stays here and becomes a franchise guy, people will forget about his off ice stuff when he matures and lights it up in a long playoff run. Having said all that I hope we keep him, but I think he will be traded in 2-3 years.
Who's to say there isn't more of the same type of occurrences and he doesn't mature like we all hope? There's a lot of individuals in the world that stay immature and never develop certain skills. We hope that this isn't true with Kane, but there's really no guarantees either. How long does he get to show he can learn before he's tradable? Maybe he could hire a life coach to help out.

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12-24-2012, 11:40 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by puck stoppa View Post
I like Kane and his off ice antics don't bother me at all cause when I see him step on the ice he plays hard and with passion. The point made on this site over and over though is that he doesn't get along with teammates and vetrans at that. But personally I hope he stays here and becomes a franchise guy, people will forget about his off ice stuff when he matures and lights it up in a long playoff run. Having said all that I hope we keep him, but I think he will be traded in 2-3 years.
This is a fair post puck stoppa

"IF" Evander continues to progress on the ice (results wise) he only needs to stop adding "new" fuel to the fire and this will all die down. I thought he did a very good job of this last year after the issues around the alledged bar fight brought all this noise to a head. I thought after that Evander got out of the social media game and this all calmed down to the point that his new big contract signing was pretty much universally well received by the Jets fans this past summer (or at least that is my recollection). That is not the reaction of a fan base that has a terminal hate on for the kid IMHO.

the key will be production because if he struggles with his new fat contract it will get ugly fast because he has very little good will built up. If he goes north of 30 goals again, improves on his point totals, and shows any kind of progression in other aspects of his game this city is still their for the taking for him if he cares one lick about that stuff.

Sure hope the kid keeps the fire burning now that he has made his cash?

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12-25-2012, 10:31 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by Paradise View Post
I think you misunderstood my comment about Hollywood or Vegas. It relates to Kane and his big city persona.

I also don't think I contradict myself by proposing a deal that I think is good value. That's your opinion, not fact. Yes, I'm not a big fan of Kane, but I mention that I'd only trade him if I thought the value was there. I never mention dealing him for a bag of pucks like some others do with players they don't like. I could just as easily bring up your feelings of admiration towards Kane as being closed minded with regards to making a deal that could improve the team. See how that works? It's reaching Sweech. I asked you an honest question, you choose to evade it, then spout off on some tirade? Attack my post all you want, I'm perfectly fine with that. I find it funny that the post you responded to was 1 question and a humorous remark related to Winnipeg. You obviously didn't find it funny, your issue, you'll have to live with it. My opinion is about improving the team through a trade involving a valuable asset, sorry you can't see that.
Yeah, I apologize I took your joke a little too seriously.

I just take umbrage with the whole Kane is a "big city" guy so he doesn't want to play here attitude. Which has already been proven wrong when he then signed longterm in Winnipeg. Which should have made an impression on fans, but it seems to have made none, it seems like everyone is convinced he wants to play elsewhere. Fact is he made a solid commitment to this team. Then that same group of fans wants him traded anyway because of a "big city attitude". It just seems like the weakest attitude concern I've ever heard of. So many rumours are proven false with him, especially those concerning his want to play here. Yet fans continue to want to dislike him. I also have a problem with a lot of Jets fans "victim" (I don't know what else to call it) attitudes towards players and whether they want to play here. The media spits it out and the fans seem to gobble it up. Bogosian and Kane don't want to play here and they'd rather play in New York or LA they say and fans eat it up. Yet Bogo and Kane turn around and sign contracts here, proving the complete opposite. Yet it will happen again and fans will buy it up again. It's like "small market syndrome" or something. I also have to try really hard not to let that cloud my judgment when fans clamor after a player because they perceive that the player doesn't like Winnipeg.

As for your trade talk. I was serious when I said it's hard to find a similar trade, I'm sure you've heard it before, but he's in very elite company being a 20 year old 30 goal scorer. Those players just don't get traded.

Looking back even to 2000 only Ilya Kovalchuk, Rick Nash, and Marian Gaborik have accomplished that feat and are no longer with their original team. Marian Gaborik became a highly paid free agent, while the other two requested a trade out of a failing franchise. So there's no really strong comparisons to be found.

I'd even argue that Giordano+Baertschi is less value than what Nash and Kovalchuk garnered and they both had diminished value by a) publicly requesting a trade and in Kovalchuk's case was a soon-to-be free agent.

Firstly the trade has two pieces that help the team at separate times. Giordano is hitting his peak right now and is a good, but not great defenseman. He'd be a step up from Hainsey, but not by a crazy amount IMO. Baertschi has shown some solid scoring skills, but I think he's being overrated due to playing on a WHL powerhouse and having a very good small sample size in the NHL. I admit I'm impressed by his AHL production, but from the games I've seen he still shows the one dimensional game that has me slightly worried. Even if he pans out he'll be hitting his prime when Giordano is quite past his and the two will never be able to effectively help this team simultaneously, which I believe is very important.

Regardless, I think trading Kane would require an overpayment and I believe you would agree. I just don't at all believe Giordano+Baertschi is anything close to an overpayment and like I stated earlier they don't simultaneously help this team, which dwindles the trades overall value in my mind. I think we'd be looking to trade for multiple young assets as our best time to compete will be when our young key players are in their primes (Kane, Bogosian, Burmistrov, Scheifele, Trouba, etc.) Sven could play in this, but Giordano would not. Not to mention there is no mention of Giordano's no trade clause.

That's just how I see things and I see we obviously disagree. I like Kane I think he's a very good developing players with a "big city attitude". I'm also not against trading him, I just think doing so requires an overpayment and the provided trades are not overpayments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by puck stoppa View Post
I like Kane and his off ice antics don't bother me at all cause when I see him step on the ice he plays hard and with passion. The point made on this site over and over though is that he doesn't get along with teammates and vetrans at that. But personally I hope he stays here and becomes a franchise guy, people will forget about his off ice stuff when he matures and lights it up in a long playoff run. Having said all that I hope we keep him, but I think he will be traded in 2-3 years.
I haven't actually heard that. Is there an article I missed? I know Burmistrov apparently ticked off some vets, but I actually hadn't heard that about Kaner.


Last edited by Sweech: 12-25-2012 at 10:42 PM.
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12-25-2012, 11:04 PM
  #172
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Matt Duchene is awesome. IMO he would instantly be the Jets best or 2nd best forward. I would take a proven 1st line forward over a prospect pretty much every time.

I am always for trading anyone if the return makes the team better.
I totally agree. He is awesome.

However, that's all he talks about.

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12-26-2012, 02:27 AM
  #173
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I totally agree. He is awesome.

However, that's all he talks about.
I love Duchene! Let's trade what we have to, to get him

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12-26-2012, 02:54 PM
  #174
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Nashville is in need of a #2D to replace Suter. With Bogo, Enstrom, and Buff, it seems like you guys might be able to lose one. We could offer up Colin Wilson+. Wilson is a Winnipeg boy that meshes perfectly age-wise with Kane, Little, Bogo, etc, and is ready for top 6 minutes now with top line potential. He and Trotz seem to hate each other (we have no idea why), so his expendability is from that and not a lack of talent. He has been our best forward some nights, just needs consistency and a new coach IMO.

My first choice would be Enstrom, followed by Bogo, then Buff. Like I said, we could certainly add to Wilson. Also would be interested in Wilson+ for Kane if he is really moving.

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12-26-2012, 03:13 PM
  #175
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I love Duchene! Let's trade what we have to, to get him
I hope you're watching the Spengler Cup game that's on right now.

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