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Old
12-24-2012, 02:40 PM
  #651
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
The entire premise of the article is based upon that "fans just don't like him", that the fans will drive him out of town, so I'm unsure of how you or anyone else could claim otherwise. Please explain how I got that wrong? Seems an indefensible position in fact given that the author is based in Toronto and basically has zero access to either the player or the club. None is claimed in the article.

Lawless' output in comparison is golden versus those essentially baseless claims.

I could claim in print that YWGinYYZ is an alien based upon other rumors I've heard, but that doesn't mean my claim is based upon reality.
Again, the Kane / fan dynamic has been big news. He has been forced to address it publicly multiple times. Unless those interviews were geo blocked to Ontario residents, anybody / everybody there has access to them.

Multiple Ontario based hockey personalities have also commented on the issue. I am not sure what your hang up is here.

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12-24-2012, 02:45 PM
  #652
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Originally Posted by truck View Post
Again, the Kane / fan dynamic has been big news. He has been forced to address it publicly multiple times. Unless those interviews were geo blocked to Ontario residents, anybody / everybody there has access to them.

Multiple Ontario based hockey personalities have also commented on the issue. I am not sure what your hang up is here.
It doesn't matter if it is in the news, nor if Ontario based hockey personalities commented. That is ancillary, moot. Doyle/Swansson's article claims however that WINNIPEG opinion and fan behavior is the issue; you've yet to explain though how this Toronto-based AIH writer is positioned to gauge Winnipeg opinion, nor how her crystal ball can claim to know how Kane's future will play out here. Hint: she isn't positioned to make such claims about the city from afar, and can't realistically claim to know how this plays out. It is basically an absent guess at best.


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12-24-2012, 02:50 PM
  #653
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Originally Posted by Ziggy66 View Post
Meh. I cant take any substance in the claim. Look at Buffs BUI charge. Sure people were upset and he trended in the local media for quite a while but that has nothing to do with colour and everything to do with his actions. Just like Kane's actions. I dont really care about the photo but I do not see this as a colour and culture issue.
Pavi also got a DUI, some believe his was handled differently than Buff's. True or not, some people believe it. Not everybody will agree, but I see it as something worth considering.

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12-24-2012, 03:00 PM
  #654
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Pavi also got a DUI, some believe his was handled differently than Buff's. True or not, some people believe it. Not everybody will agree, but I see it as something worth considering.
That is true. Handled differently by whom though? the media or the organization? or the public in general?

Obviously the American media put Buff in the spotlight. From my understanding (could be totally wrong) is that theCzech media did not. So word of his actions did not reach NA and spread as fast. The Jets org did not even know this occured before they resigned Pavs (could be wrong about that as well lol)

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12-24-2012, 03:01 PM
  #655
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How about we drop the Doyle thing. A name change is a name change and it is really disrespectful for you to keep playing that card.

I am not sure why geography is an issue here. Many people from all over NA have been asking what the heck is going on with Kane in Winnipeg.

Lots of his "issues" have made national news. Kane's reactions to the "issues" have been published nationally too. Figuring that he might get tired of the negative press isn't geographically specific.
She was once known as Pat Doyle, and wrote hundreds of articles about the Jets under that name. She now writes a few blog posts under a different name. Mr. Pat Doyle is how 99% of us oldies would remember her. No disrespect intended. Changing the name doesn't change the author's clear bias against Winnipeg-based pro hockey, apparently. I'll refer to her as Doyle/Swansson if I wish; that is who she is.

Geography is an issue because a writer from Toronto claims Winnipeg fan opinion and behavior to be an issue, yet they've no interaction on the ground here with fans, players, or the club from which to realistically base the claims made in the article. If you can't understand why that is an issue, then have a nice day.

Some Winnipeg fans may not like him; that doesn't at all equate however to that "fans just don't like him" on the whole, yet that is the premise behind the piece.

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12-24-2012, 03:06 PM
  #656
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
It doesn't matter if it is in the news, nor if Ontario based hockey personalities commented. That is ancillary, moot. Doyle/Swansson's article claims however that WINNIPEG opinion and fan behavior is the issue; you've yet to explain though how this Toronto-based AIH writer is positioned to gauge Winnipeg opinion, nor how her crystal ball can claim to know how Kane's future will play out here. Hint: she isn't positioned to make such claims about the city from afar, and can't realistically claim to know how this plays out. It is basically an absent guess at best.
Most people are able to speculate without a crystal ball.

I am not sure what you read, but the article was Patti speculating about Kane's tolerance for the constant flow of BS, not about the fans.

"Of the top 30 scorers in NHL history, only four started and finished with his original club—Steve Yzerman, Mario Lemieux, Joe Sakic and Stan Mikita.

So, yes, Kane will be moved. It might be the day after Gary Bettman and Donald Fehr kiss and make up. It might be a day before the next NHL lockout. But I say Kane wants out of Dodge before the Jets/fans/media run him out."

I don't know why you need a crystal ball for that?

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12-24-2012, 03:12 PM
  #657
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
Some Winnipeg fans may not like him; that doesn't at all equate however to that "fans just don't like him" on the whole, yet that is the premise behind the piece.
...but that very clearly wasn't the premise of the piece. The piece suggested that Kane would get tired of the constant barrage of crap and drama (that has in some instances been proliferated by the local media and gone national) and ask to be traded.

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12-24-2012, 03:18 PM
  #658
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Originally Posted by Ziggy66 View Post
That is true. Handled differently by whom though? the media or the organization? or the public in general?

Obviously the American media put Buff in the spotlight. From my understanding (could be totally wrong) is that theCzech media did not. So word of his actions did not reach NA and spread as fast. The Jets org did not even know this occured before they resigned Pavs (could be wrong about that as well lol)
Yeah. I believe that is how it went down.

I think it was the relative local media / public reaction that some people thought was a bit off. They are probably linked too.

A more polarizing figure gets more press, especially when something bad happens, thus making said figure a bigger lightning rod.

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12-24-2012, 03:54 PM
  #659
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The only part I don't agree with is race. "IF" it is In play here I firmly believe it is in the margins. If Iggy played here he would be a hero because he is a great player and a good guy?

when I moved to winnipeg stuff like this dogged Tkachuk as well but it was before social media amplified, magnified, and crystallized issues founded or unfounded. Keith was not my cup of tea but he had players on the team in his camp and was more a love him or hate him type. one of the boys on IC nailed it IMHO when he pointed out the lack of any teammates voluntarily coming to Kane's defense when it comes to any of these issues. Arrogant jerks come in all shapes, sizes, AND colors and yea maybe the occasional poster might have race issues but in this case it is my strong opinion that is away too convenient an excuse.

I have no idea how long the tolerance fuse for Kane or TNSE will be when it comes to these issues but I have always been of the firm belief that if and when he is moved we better be dealing from a position of strength because love him or hate him Evander is a very valuable asset for our organization. There is nothing happening with Evander that is a suprise to the people in the organization or his teammates so I am sure cooler heads will prevail when we get back to hockey.


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12-24-2012, 04:22 PM
  #660
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The only part I don't agree with is race. "IF" it is In play here I firmly believe it is in the margins. If Iggy played here he would be a hero because he is a great player and a good guy?

when I moved to winnipeg stuff like this dogged Tkachuk as well but it was before social media amplified, magnified, and crystallized issues founded or unfounded. Keith was not my cup of tea but he had players on the team in his camp and was more a love him or hate him type. one of the boys on IC nailed it IMHO when he pointed out the lack of any teammates voluntarily coming to Kane's defense when it comes to any of these issues. Arrogant jerks come to in all shapes, sizes, AND colors and yea maybe the occasional poster might have race issues but in this case it is my strong opinion that is away too convenient an excuse.

I have no idea how long the tolerance fuse for Kane or TNSE will be when it comes to these issues but I have always been of the firm belief that if and when he is moved we better be dealing from a position of strength because love him or hate him Evander is a very valuable asset for our organization. There is nothing happening with Evander that is a suprise to the people in the organization or his teammates so I am sure cooler heads will prevail when we get back to hockey.
I agree with pretty much all of that, especially the bit about TNSE, but I think people are fooling themselves of they ever write race off as a non issue. Not saying you did, but in general it is an issue way to often. Even claims that people don't want Kane acting like a rapper or basketball player bring us back to race and culture.

Also, I think Keith was worse than Kane.

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12-24-2012, 05:46 PM
  #661
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Originally Posted by truck View Post
I agree with pretty much all of that, especially the bit about TNSE, but I think people are fooling themselves of they ever write race off as a non issue. Not saying you did, but in general it is an issue way to often. Even claims that people don't want Kane acting like a rapper or basketball player bring us back to race and culture.

Also, I think Keith was worse than Kane.
I have to disagree with you on this one, Truck. This is all about character and throwing colour into the debate just confuses the issue.
The issue itself is simple: Just like Tkachuk, Kane is a star hockey player who is young, immature and self-centred. They are not exactly rare in pro sports, but in the age of Twitter everything is amplified, so it's worse for Kane.
Kane could turn his image around in no time if he really wanted to. Pick a charity, a hospital or a cause other than himself, put in some real effort in his precious free time, exercise a little restraint and good judgement, and he'd be a hero in this town.

As a fan, I have very high expectations of my team's players--I expect them to be great hockey players AND good role models. Perhaps I am in the minority, but I have a sneaking suspicion that TNSE may think the same way. If that is so, and IF Kane doesn't grow up and IF we can trade him for equal or greater value while his stock is high, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him gone at some point. To attribute this line of thinking to racism is just plain wrong and does a disservice to players of good character, no matter what their colour.

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12-24-2012, 06:01 PM
  #662
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Originally Posted by scelaton View Post
I have to disagree with you on this one, Truck. This is all about character and throwing colour into the debate just confuses the issue.
The issue itself is simple: Just like Tkachuk, Kane is a star hockey player who is young, immature and self-centred. They are not exactly rare in pro sports, but in the age of Twitter everything is amplified, so it's worse for Kane.
Kane could turn his image around in no time if he really wanted to. Pick a charity, a hospital or a cause other than himself, put in some real effort in his precious free time, exercise a little restraint and good judgement, and he'd be a hero in this town.

As a fan, I have very high expectations of my team's players--I expect them to be great hockey players AND good role models. Perhaps I am in the minority, but I have a sneaking suspicion that TNSE may think the same way. If that is so, and IF Kane doesn't grow up and IF we can trade him for equal or greater value while his stock is high, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him gone at some point. To attribute this line of thinking to racism is just plain wrong and does a disservice to players of good character, no matter what their colour.
Spot on.

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12-24-2012, 06:16 PM
  #663
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Originally Posted by truck View Post
I agree with pretty much all of that, especially the bit about TNSE, but I think people are fooling themselves of they ever write race off as a non issue. Not saying you did, but in general it is an issue way to often. Even claims that people don't want Kane acting like a rapper or basketball player bring us back to race and culture.

Also, I think Keith was worse than Kane.
Truck, I am speculating you are way younger then I am. Kane is going to have to put in one hell of a lot of time and money if he wants to match Keith Tkachuk's generosity.

Good article last year about Tkachuk admitting he didn't handle his early years very well. Self awareness is a wonderful gift to find under the tree

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12-24-2012, 06:32 PM
  #664
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Originally Posted by scelaton View Post
I have to disagree with you on this one, Truck. This is all about character and throwing colour into the debate just confuses the issue.
The issue itself is simple: Just like Tkachuk, Kane is a star hockey player who is young, immature and self-centred. They are not exactly rare in pro sports, but in the age of Twitter everything is amplified, so it's worse for Kane.
Kane could turn his image around in no time if he really wanted to. Pick a charity, a hospital or a cause other than himself, put in some real effort in his precious free time, exercise a little restraint and good judgement, and he'd be a hero in this town.

As a fan, I have very high expectations of my team's players--I expect them to be great hockey players AND good role models. Perhaps I am in the minority, but I have a sneaking suspicion that TNSE may think the same way. If that is so, and IF Kane doesn't grow up and IF we can trade him for equal or greater value while his stock is high, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him gone at some point. To attribute this line of thinking to racism is just plain wrong and does a disservice to players of good character, no matter what their colour.
Nice comment and I'll join you in your minority

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12-24-2012, 06:54 PM
  #665
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Nice comment and I'll join you in your minority
I agree.

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12-24-2012, 07:15 PM
  #666
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The Kane issue has been beaten to death, and has taken this thread horribly OT (though I guess with the lockout any discussion that sparks debate is good), but I will offer my 2 cents once more.

Does Kane's attitude put me off? At times, yes. Do his antics get tired? Again, yes. I would rather he just project a team-first, giving persona. However, there is something to be said about having a colorful personality on your team. Someone interesting. The one negative I can say about hockey is that often the people in it are vanilla (no racial intent here ). Same answers to same questions. Same visits to same places on team sanctioned charity junkets. It's nice to have someone putting it on it's ear a bit.

Yes, Kane has to grow up, start realizing that it's not just him, he represents The Jets and Winnipeg. However, I think its folly to start hoping the guy gets traded. He is imperfect on and off the ice. The fact remains that he very consistently scores goals and you can see in the NHL that that is an extremely desired commodity. The fact that he is here long term says a lot.

Even through all of the gossip and garbage said about him in the last year (of course there is truth in it) he still signed right here in Winnipeg. So, despite what everyone says about what his teammates think about him, it's obviously not that bad.

If he continues to score, the rest will come. He will grow and mature. TNSE will help him become more mindful and show him the proper way to go about his business.

Lets see where he's at in 2 years. If he hasn't shown growth, then I will be with the rest of the trade Kane camp. I have a feeling he will be flirting with 50 goal seasons and people will be wondering what its going to cost to re sign him.

FTR I never liked Keith Tkachuk, but I realized what he brought to the team, and did not want him to get traded.

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12-24-2012, 07:21 PM
  #667
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WAY too much of this going on in the Kane discussion IMHO



The moral police are going nuts lol

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12-24-2012, 07:58 PM
  #668
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WAY too much of this going on in the Kane discussion IMHO



The moral police are going nuts lol

Don't forget the highly paid defence team.


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12-24-2012, 08:35 PM
  #669
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WAY too much of this going on in the Kane discussion IMHO



The moral police are going nuts lol
I wish there wasn't a Kane discussion, but unfortunately the had tactless manager and took a photo with some some money. Aside from that it is just a bunch of idiots starting BS and Lawless publishing it.... And he does do charity work. I don't see the major character flaw.

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12-24-2012, 08:50 PM
  #670
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I wish there wasn't a Kane discussion, but unfortunately the had tactless manager and took a photo with some some money. Aside from that it is just a bunch of idiots starting BS and Lawless publishing it.... And he does do charity work. I don't see the major character flaw.
Nobody has brought it up yet, but idolizing a d-bag like Mayweather? What type of solid character idolizes an abuser?


Last edited by Paradise: 12-24-2012 at 10:46 PM.
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12-24-2012, 08:53 PM
  #671
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Originally Posted by truck View Post
I wish there wasn't a Kane discussion, but unfortunately the had tactless manager and took a photo with some some money. Aside from that it is just a bunch of idiots starting BS and Lawless publishing it.... And he does do charity work. I don't see the major character flaw.
I want to let this discussion go as well but just wanted to clarify the bolded part truck....when you say "idiots starting BS" what are you referring to? I don't want to take your comments out of context just looking for clarification? I am not in the habit of defending Lawless but other than the "Kane will be traded" part what part of his article do you think is not accurate? It's tough to tell with Gary because he has his sources and collects decent information it's just when he starts connecting the dots and giving his opinion (Kane will be traded) he can lose me really fast.


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12-24-2012, 11:09 PM
  #672
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I want to let this discussion go as well but just wanted to clarify the bolded part truck....when you say "idiots starting BS" what are you referring to? I don't want to take your comments out of context just looking for clarification? I am not in the habit of defending Lawless but other than the "Kane will be traded" part what part of his article do you think is not accurate? It's tough to tell with Gary because he has his sources and collects decent information it's just when he starts connecting the dots and giving his opinion (Kane will be traded) he can lose me really fast.
What I meant was, the "pay your bills" nonsense was started by a pissed of server and the night club incident was confirmed by a friend of a friend of a friend who saw it happen at 8 different bars in the same night. Nobody at any of these bars had a camera phone or the wherewithal to mention it until an hour after the bar closed. That is what I meant by idiots starting BS.
Aside from those incidents, that could be written off as nonsense, Kane's character issues are based on:
1) Pay for Tweets (not sure why this is different than Pav selling cars)
2) Speculation that he wants out.
3) More speculation that he wants out.
4) A photo of him with money.

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12-24-2012, 11:22 PM
  #673
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Nobody has brought it up yet, but idolizing a d-bag like Mayweather? What type of solid character idolizes an abuser?
Mayweather is a garbage human, but he is an amazing amazing amazing boxer that has achieved greatness. I understand respecting his athletic accomplishment, but I agree that he isn't a role model. The Mayweather bugged me more than anything he has done, but it isn't really that big of a deal IMO. I have many friends who claim #moneyteam

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12-24-2012, 11:37 PM
  #674
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Mayweather is a garbage human, but he is an amazing amazing amazing boxer that has achieved greatness. I understand respecting his athletic accomplishment, but I agree that he isn't a role model. The Mayweather bugged me more than anything he has done, but it isn't really that big of a deal IMO. I have many friends who claim #moneyteam
I see him as a great boxer, but not one of the all time greats. He dodged top fighters and definitely picked his spots. I have always had more respect for a fighting champion. There sure isn't many of those anymore. Boxing isn't like it used to be, so corrupt and political. I find it difficult to watch.

As a human being, he's pretty much everything I dislike, lol.

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12-25-2012, 12:21 AM
  #675
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I don't want to delve into this anymore, but I do want to add:

Kane keeps getting pooped of for these rumours, but people seem to completely ignore the good things. Kane was involved with a tweeting about charity events in ATL and BC well before any of the poor PR junk happened. His work was mostly low key and in BC, but he has been doing it for a while. After the rumours and BS took over all of his charity work was written off as PR stunts.

I guess E. Kane selfishly devotes time to golf tournaments:
http://embersstaffingsolutions.wordp...-evander-kane/

...and kids
http://m.vancourier.com/svc/wlws.svc...ArticleId=true

...and Winnipeg Harvest
http://winnipegharvest.org/event/mee...nipeg-harvest/

...etc etc. I spent 60 seconds on Google.
http://www.saveitforward.com/charity/

I also recall his enrolment I'm multiple kids and women's cancer events.

Oh and he does like trying to mentor draft picks:
http://www.winnipegsun.com/2011/09/1...iper-scheifele






Semi related:

He us another interesting read on media calling black players cocky:
http://realhockeynews.com/2012/08/24...players-cocky/ Kinda like how Russians are "enigmatic" I suppose.

...and another about the Thrashers actively looking to add black players. Somebody asked about this earlier.
http://passittobulis.blogspot.ca/201...ively.html?m=1

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