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Rielly ranked #1 of 2012 draft class in TSN (Craig Button) Top 30 NHL Prospects

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12-24-2012, 10:23 PM
  #476
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The statement is a response to this: "that's true. if he's the prospect he's hyped to be, he will dominate this tournament against kids his own age", which basically says Rielly isn't a top prospect unless he shows it in the next two weeks.

And I simply don't see the WJC being the indicator of a prospect's value because as we've seen, there's plenty of WJC participants who suck and go on to be great NHLers, and WJC superstars who were never good prospects and didn't become good NHLers.

Rielly's evaluation as a prospect and ultimately as a pro will occur over a much longer time frame.
fair enough, but if he's a top, elite prospect, why wouldn't he show it over the next two weeks? unless he's injured?

this is a chance for him to compete against the best, for him to prove to himself and everyone else that he's among the best, or perhaps is the very best of them. this is the biggest tournament he's ever played in, and perhaps the biggest he ever will play in. a lot of eyes will be watching this. lets not brush it off as if its nothing.

if he's as good as he's supposed to be, i expect him to step up big time and help lead canada to gold. why wouldn't he?

true, a kid's wjc performance doesn't dictate where he'll end up in the nhl (or not in the nhl). but isn't it fair to say that most elite prospects and elite nhlers over the years have had great wjc performances? they're thought to be the best prospects for a reason, right?

for sure rielly's every move, positive and negative, will be analyzed to death on this board over the next 2 weeks.

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12-24-2012, 11:33 PM
  #477
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fair enough, but if he's a top, elite prospect, why wouldn't he show it over the next two weeks? unless he's injured?

this is a chance for him to compete against the best, for him to prove to himself and everyone else that he's among the best, or perhaps is the very best of them. this is the biggest tournament he's ever played in, and perhaps the biggest he ever will play in. a lot of eyes will be watching this. lets not brush it off as if its nothing.

if he's as good as he's supposed to be, i expect him to step up big time and help lead canada to gold. why wouldn't he?

true, a kid's wjc performance doesn't dictate where he'll end up in the nhl (or not in the nhl). but isn't it fair to say that most elite prospects and elite nhlers over the years have had great wjc performances? they're thought to be the best prospects for a reason, right?

for sure rielly's every move, positive and negative, will be analyzed to death on this board over the next 2 weeks.
Look, I'm not really interested in making any pre-emptive excuses for why Rielly wouldn't have a good showing, I want him to dominate, but you know as well as I do that the only meaningful test for a prospect is what he does is in the NHL and not these tournaments.

Just like Jerry D'Amigo's 12 point showing in 2010 doesn't make him an equal to Taylor Hall or Jordan Eberle, just like Niklas Sundstrom didn't become an all time great because he blew the doors off of the 1993 tournament, just like how Phil Kessel's career was ruined because he scored 1 goal in his draft year tournament. Just like how Erik Johnson didn't become the next Chris Pronger in a week long tournament in 2006, or how Al Montoya didn't become a Hall of Fame goalie based on his great run.

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12-24-2012, 11:42 PM
  #478
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you said it was a frame of reference for style of play. that's a lot different than saying someone has the abilities of a brian leetch.

there's a kid here who plays in the jr.b league. he's a smooth, fast, defenceman. gets lots of assists. smart player. plays like brian leetch. but he's never getting out of the local jr.b league. doesn't have the ability of a brian leetch.
If the guy's pulling a Brian Leetch in the WHL, chances are that style comparison will inform you as to what he's potentially able to do. No one's taking measurements on his induction blazer.

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i don't follow the wings board, and i honestly don't know who ryan sproul is, but i think i'd bat an eye if i saw him casually talked about as the next weber.

can you blame leafs fans for thinking a lower expectation is more realistic? is that really something to take exception to, given the history of hyped prospects we've seen ultimately fail? if not being skeptical, at least wanting to see much more evidence (as you say yourself), before claiming him a potential superstar?
Your skepticism is founded solely on his professional team affiliation, without any attempt at looking at him more closely on the actual ice. Maybe he'll fail as a professional defenseman and make you look smart in the process, but that failure should have nothing to do with the busts that came before him.

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12-25-2012, 08:54 AM
  #479
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can you blame leafs fans for thinking a lower expectation is more realistic? is that really something to take exception to, given the history of hyped prospects we've seen ultimately fail? if not being skeptical, at least wanting to see much more evidence (as you say yourself), before claiming him a potential superstar?
Burke said he had him rated 1st. overall in the 2012 draft.

So if Burke is right (whatever) it would not be unreasonable for expectations for him to be a star in the NHL.

When you draft 1st. overall that is what you are expecting, not necessarily a Crosby level of star, but definitely a defender drafted 1st. overall should be at a minimum a #1 defender. Drew Doughty 2nd. overall is an example of a defender fulfilling his draft expectations.

Anything less than a star for Rielly will be a disappointment.

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12-25-2012, 09:37 AM
  #480
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Just like Jerry D'Amigo's 12 point showing in 2010 doesn't make him an equal to Taylor Hall or Jordan Eberle, just like Niklas Sundstrom didn't become an all time great because he blew the doors off of the 1993 tournament, just like how Phil Kessel's career was ruined because he scored 1 goal in his draft year tournament. Just like how Erik Johnson didn't become the next Chris Pronger in a week long tournament in 2006, or how Al Montoya didn't become a Hall of Fame goalie based on his great run.
Well said. I thought this was a team game. As well as I'd like to see Rielly play, I would be happier seeing Canada win than Rielly dominate and Canada finish 5th or even 2nd.

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12-25-2012, 09:44 AM
  #481
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Burke said he had him rated 1st. overall in the 2012 draft.

So if Burke is right (whatever) it would not be unreasonable for expectations for him to be a star in the NHL.

When you draft 1st. overall that is what you are expecting, not necessarily a Crosby level of star, but definitely a defender drafted 1st. overall should be at a minimum a #1 defender. Drew Doughty 2nd. overall is an example of a defender fulfilling his draft expectations.

Anything less than a star for Rielly will be a disappointment.
This is why our young players get run out of town.

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12-25-2012, 09:51 AM
  #482
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This is why our young players get run out of town.
It's just another "satirical" (this is the PC term for it, right?) view of Burke's decisions.

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12-25-2012, 10:02 AM
  #483
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This is why our young players get run out of town.
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It's just another "satirical" (this is the PC term for it, right?) view of Burke's decisions.
Okay, so when everyone is hoping the Leafs win a lock-out lottery with the intention of drafting the 1st. overall pick it is with the expectations that they'll land another mediocre player?

1st. overall is to land your franchise players, failing that you expect a star player.

If a player is ranked 1st. overall he'll understand what the expectations are.

I'm guessing you'd trade the 1st. overall pick if the Leafs landed it?

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12-25-2012, 10:13 AM
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Okay, so when everyone is hoping the Leafs win a lock-out lottery with the intention of drafting the 1st. overall pick it is with the expectations that they'll land another mediocre player?

1st. overall is to land your franchise players, failing that you expect a star player.

If a player is ranked 1st. overall he'll understand what the expectations are.

I'm guessing you'd trade the 1st. overall pick if the Leafs landed it?
Some of us treat it as Burke standing up for his prospects. I put this into the same category as when he was questioned about whether or not he'd do the Kessel trade again.

Others will take any excuse to bash Burke, even if it's a result him showing confidence in our best prospect.

Either way, I guess people hear what they want to hear, as long as it serves their agenda.

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12-25-2012, 10:26 AM
  #485
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Some of us treat it as Burke standing up for his prospects. I put this into the same category as when he was questioned about whether or not he'd do the Kessel trade again.

Others will take any excuse to bash Burke, even if it's a result him showing confidence in our best prospect.

Either way, I guess people hear what they want to hear, as long as it serves their agenda.
I have no intention of starting up the Kessel trade again (I've killed so many of those threads ...).

No, I seriously expect Rielly to be a star.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sport...men/55579426/1

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While technically we have Rielly weighing in at No. 3 on our list, we have to hedge our bets here somewhat by saying that Red Line actually believes Rielly has the highest offensive upside of the bunch. If not for the early-November knee injury that cost him most of the season, we're confident he would have been our top rated defenseman, and perhaps as high as No. 2 overall on our draft board.
I wanted Grigorenko 1st., but Red Line put me on to Rielly way before Burke selected him.

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12-25-2012, 11:34 AM
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I have no intention of starting up the Kessel trade again (I've killed so many of those threads ...).

No, I seriously expect Rielly to be a star.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sport...men/55579426/1

I wanted Grigorenko 1st., but Red Line put me on to Rielly way before Burke selected him.
Burke's got his players' backs. Be it Kessel, Versteeg (It's not you, it's me routine), Reilly (I would have picked him as #1, too), Gustavsson, etc.

To say that unless Reilly turns out to be a star, he'll be a disappointment is a pretty closeminded view of things, regardless of what position Burke would have drafted him at. Reilly wasn't a safe pick. His ability to adjust to the speed of the game in the NHL will be the determining factor of how successful he will be.

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12-25-2012, 11:44 AM
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Burke's got his players' backs. Be it Kessel, Versteeg (It's not you, it's me routine), Reilly (I would have picked him as #1, too), Gustavsson, etc.

To say that unless Reilly turns out to be a star, he'll be a disappointment is a pretty closeminded view of things, regardless of what position Burke would have drafted him at. Reilly wasn't a safe pick. His ability to adjust to the speed of the game in the NHL will be the determining factor of how successful he will be.
I expect a star at 1st. or 2nd. overall in any draft.

I don't hold the Leafs to a lower standard.

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12-25-2012, 01:18 PM
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Some of us treat it as Burke standing up for his prospects. I put this into the same category as when he was questioned about whether or not he'd do the Kessel trade again.

Others will take any excuse to bash Burke, even if it's a result him showing confidence in our best prospect.

Either way, I guess people hear what they want to hear, as long as it serves their agenda.
Ulf you've committed one of the classic blunders! The first of which is to never get in a land war with Asia! The second only slightly less known one is to never take anything Burke says seriously!

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12-25-2012, 01:51 PM
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Boone seems like a punk. Makes us look like a dirty team, we can definitely do without.

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12-25-2012, 01:56 PM
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Ulf you've committed one of the classic blunders! The first of which is to never get in a land war with Asia! The second only slightly less known one is to never take anything Burke says seriously!
As I pointed out, Red Line report was already touting Rielly before the draft, and I said the only defenseman I'd be okay with was Rielly.

I'd still go with Grigorenko if I had the opportunity.

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12-25-2012, 02:40 PM
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Burke said he had him rated 1st. overall in the 2012 draft.

So if Burke is right (whatever) it would not be unreasonable for expectations for him to be a star in the NHL.

When you draft 1st. overall that is what you are expecting, not necessarily a Crosby level of star, but definitely a defender drafted 1st. overall should be at a minimum a #1 defender. Drew Doughty 2nd. overall is an example of a defender fulfilling his draft expectations.

Anything less than a star for Rielly will be a disappointment.
Is it not possible that Burke and his staff had Rielly rated 1st overall on their draft board when selecting 5th overall? For example he had to have known that Yakupov and Murrary would have gone 1st & 2nd and until the Leafs picked it was a toss up of who was going to be available at 5th overall. Using my theory at the 2009 Draft when they selected 7th overall in the 1st round they had Kadri listed at the top of their draft board for where they were picking. So could they have used the same process with Rielly?

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12-25-2012, 02:43 PM
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Boone seems like a punk. Makes us look like a dirty team, we can definitely do without.
Speak for yourself. The Leafs could use a few Boone Jenners.

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12-25-2012, 05:52 PM
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As I pointed out, Red Line report was already touting Rielly before the draft, and I said the only defenseman I'd be okay with was Rielly.

I'd still go with Grigorenko if I had the opportunity.

Princess Bride, Mark Knopfler.
Yeah I still debate whether we should have taken Grigorenko. Oh well.

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12-25-2012, 08:40 PM
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Is it not possible that Burke and his staff had Rielly rated 1st overall on their draft board when selecting 5th overall? For example he had to have known that Yakupov and Murrary would have gone 1st & 2nd and until the Leafs picked it was a toss up of who was going to be available at 5th overall. Using my theory at the 2009 Draft when they selected 7th overall in the 1st round they had Kadri listed at the top of their draft board for where they were picking. So could they have used the same process with Rielly?
what?

i would hope they did have reilly at the top of their "available" list when they drafted him. otherwise, why draft him?

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12-25-2012, 08:50 PM
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If the guy's pulling a Brian Leetch in the WHL, chances are that style comparison will inform you as to what he's potentially able to do. No one's taking measurements on his induction blazer.
well, i don't see rielly pulling a leetch in the whl. i'm pretty sure 18-year-old brian leetch would have done a lot more in the whl than rielly has been doing.

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Your skepticism is founded solely on his professional team affiliation, without any attempt at looking at him more closely on the actual ice. Maybe he'll fail as a professional defenseman and make you look smart in the process, but that failure should have nothing to do with the busts that came before him.
unless there's something wrong with the development system. some people seem to think its much tougher for kids to make it in toronto than it is anywhere else.

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12-25-2012, 10:01 PM
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well, i don't see rielly pulling a leetch in the whl. i'm pretty sure 18-year-old brian leetch would have done a lot more in the whl than rielly has been doing.
Brian Leetch at 18/19 was only putting up 47 points in 37 Hockey East games.

An 18/19 year old Scott Niedermayer scored 39 points in 35 games in Kamloops.

These legacies take time at the NHL to cultivate. What Rielly's doing now is a good indication of what he has in him, but it's not going to determine his future.

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unless there's something wrong with the development system. some people seem to think its much tougher for kids to make it in toronto than it is anywhere else.
I would personally blame the amateur scouting on most of the Leafs deficiencies in terms of developing something elite. We're not drafting consistently in the first round, which means we don't get a lot of automatically blue chip guys, and then we waste time with Kenny Ryan and Jamie Devane picks when we should be going for more home run swings on players whose upside isn't useless plug.

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12-25-2012, 10:32 PM
  #497
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Speak for yourself. The Leafs could use a few Boone Jenners.
I'd absolutely love to have Boone Jenner in the system.

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12-25-2012, 11:09 PM
  #498
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Okay, so when everyone is hoping the Leafs win a lock-out lottery with the intention of drafting the 1st. overall pick it is with the expectations that they'll land another mediocre player?

1st. overall is to land your franchise players, failing that you expect a star player.

If a player is ranked 1st. overall he'll understand what the expectations are.

I'm guessing you'd trade the 1st. overall pick if the Leafs landed it?
It also depends on the draft.

Stefan, Legwand, Phillips, are far from stars. It's like in 1984 PIT got Mario LEmieux. In 1985 Toronto got Wendel Clark.

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well, i don't see rielly pulling a leetch in the whl. i'm pretty sure 18-year-old brian leetch would have done a lot more in the whl than rielly has been doing.
Rielly is by far the best player on a crappy team.

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unless there's something wrong with the development system. some people seem to think its much tougher for kids to make it in toronto than it is anywhere else.
Being a young star in Toronto is tougher than somewhere you can still go to dinner without autograph seekers. NOt to mention more media coverage than anywhere else in the league. It ain't easy.

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12-26-2012, 12:05 AM
  #499
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If you're rated first overall (by Burke atleast and proclaimed that way) you are expected to be a star or a disappointment. Doesn't mean you wont still be a good player.


Bashing other fans for expecting him to be a star is stupid. All of this is stupid though because Rielly hasnt even got a full year under his belt after his draft to see his progression since injury, let alone the fact he barely played last year. + his team sucks.


People should just stick to watching him play for now instead of projecting his future

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12-26-2012, 09:03 AM
  #500
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Brian Leetch at 18/19 was only putting up 47 points in 37 Hockey East games.
"only"? that's a heck of a lot more impressive than scoring less than a point per game in the whl.

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I would personally blame the amateur scouting on most of the Leafs deficiencies in terms of developing something elite. We're not drafting consistently in the first round, which means we don't get a lot of automatically blue chip guys, and then we waste time with Kenny Ryan and Jamie Devane picks when we should be going for more home run swings on players whose upside isn't useless plug.
the same amateur scouts who drafted rielly.

maybe he'll be a mega-star hall-of-famer who will lead many parades down yonge st., but you can't blame people for being skeptical and wanting to see a lot more before annointing him a star.

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